Is it a good idea to have Nationality a means for Classes?

  • Yes

    Votes: 2 18.2%
  • No

    Votes: 9 81.8%

  • Total voters
    11

chungsie

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So, is it a good idea for Nationality to be the classes?

Or should Nationality be seperate than classes?

If there is an advanced level system (for going beyond lvl 99), should Nationality dictate how that is achieved?

Any feedback is welcome, as long that it is on topic.

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The idea that Nationality is the class, seems like a good idea to me. In that Nationalities dictate what kind of weapons the character can use, and what skills can be utilized.

I think perhaps though, the two can be integrated while being seperate. But I'm not sure how to implement a seperation.

For instance, a Mayan (someone from the faction Maya) can use spears and bows, while a Roman (someone form Rome) can use large shields and swords. But perhaps I'm not thinking about it clearly.

What are your thoughts?
 

Shaz

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I've moved this thread to General Discussion - this is not about game mechanics. Please be sure to post your threads in the correct forum next time. Thank you.
 

chungsie

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Er.. I thought discussion about Classes was a game mechanics topic...
 

Shaz

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classes <> mechanics


classes == design
 

chungsie

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sorry, got confused by a post in game mechanics on classes.
 

sokita

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Every Nationality can have leader, guardian, knight, normal people, etc. Umm, for RPG Maker, Nationality can be interpreted as special feature for every character.
 

chungsie

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that sounds like a good idea, and a very valid point I had missed noticing.

It seems like having nationality displayed for the actors would be too much for the menu though?
 

sokita

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Depends on your game design. If your party will consist of people from various regions, and NPC will give different reaction if talking to his/her fellow from same region, it is not too much, IMO.
 

neko-niki

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It's a pretty interesting idea but you'll have to be careful and make sure you study the different nationalities very very well to avoid negative feedback. 
 
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Nationality is something that somewhat shapes a person in real life, so I don't see a problem doing it with your characters as well, just make sure to take a look around and research a little not to make your characters come off as stereotyped or worse, racist (unless that is a plot point or something).
 

chungsie

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stereotypes and racism is not a goal of the project, at least blatantly. there is cultural nepotism in the game, where by certain npcs have grudges and issues with other nationalities, based on the history of the factions and cultures. like if Rome went to war with Gaul, the Gauls npcs that were affected would have issues with the player if he chose to be from Rome.
 

Brillenpinguin

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I dunno, if I would see a game where nationalities are used as classes, I'd get a little..., confused? Like, what does the fact that the character is from Rome tell me? Other then where they are from...at first not that much.

If you really want to include the nationality (because it seems to be important for your project) I'd call the classes as a mixture of both, the job and the heritage, like "Mayan warrior" or "Roman soldier" ect. That would make it seem less problematic and wouldn't confuse the player, because they know what type of character they are dealing with game-play-wise.
 
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jwideman

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If done sort of like Civilization, then I think that could work well. 
 

chungsie

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@Brillen that's a wonderful Idea, I don't know why I had not thought of that.

@jwide it has elements like a civilization simulation, but its primarily an open world rpg. like, factions can declare war, peace, neutrality, etc. it just is a lot of eventing and scripting involved.
 

LaFlibuste

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I wouldn't do it. Nationalities might bring certain bonuses that might make certain characters more suited for certain class and it might dictate that most of its member will be of said class, but making natonality = class doesn't seem like something that feels right to me. So Mayas usually fight with bows and spears, ok, but maybe an old exiled aztec warrior thought a few mayan youths how to use swords? Or maybe your mayan character was captured by spanish conquistadors and was taught how to use guns. Or whatever, you know. I don't think saying something like english = longbow men, french = duelists and spanish = knights is a good design choice. All three of these countries certainly had archers, knights, duelists and pretty much everything else, although maybe the english had stronger bows, had some stat bonuses that made them better archers and/or could have access to a special, more powerful super-archer prestige class.
 

chungsie

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the time period for the game is 50 BCE, so nations did not exist, they were recognized by Rome as factions.

The problem with having a Mayan with swords, is how they came to possess the knowledge of metallurgy. The best solution I saw for something like that, as having swords made from bone, or stone. But they are vastly weaker than say a Gladius of Rome.

The long bow of English times, came from the Norman invasion, which in turn made the English language how it is today. Iberia was populated with Tartessians, Celts, Greeks, and Phoenicians.

So I agree that perhaps there should be a more complex system for classes based on nationality. But it seems it would be a pretty difficult script to write, given my programming background. When I get my computer back from HP, I will have to take a look at the system scripts, and find out how to go about making a Class bonus based on nationality.

Also, Aztecs were apart of some lesser known cultures at this period, the Andean Chiefdoms and the Mocha. here is the link to our website for the game where information can be found on things being implemented. as well as a map of the world for the period.

https://classicalageworld.wordpress.com/
 

LaFlibuste

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For the record, the aztecs did use swords, only they were wooden sword and the blade was made of sharp obsidian shards tucked in the wood.

But I digress.

Yes, of course my examples good all kinds of time period mixed up and it wouldn't necessarily make sense to put them all alongside each other in an historical context. Still, the core of my argument still stands, I don't think nationality should equate class. Let's take some more time-period accurate example: I don't think greeks should necessarily be spearmen, gauls skirmishers and mongols riders/pillagers. Maybe the people from each of these nationalities could have certain stat bonuses that would make them better in said roles, gauls might be a bit quicker and better with melee weapons, greeks might have defensive bonuses, whatever. But why should a greek be forced to fight with spear and shield in phalanx formation? Is it that inconceivable that one could have somehow gotten hold of a bow and learned to ride a horse?

Also, I totally understand your point about making the most of the available systems and not being a coder. Sometimes, hard choices have to be made. It mostly boils down to how you implement it, I guess. If all classes do is set the stats but do not restrict equipment usage and skill learning, yeah, I could see "gaul", "roman" and "greek" classes. But if you use your classes to restrict equipment and give set skills, then no. Maybe classes only set the stats and don't restrict anything aside from maybe giving a few very general and unrestrictive skills, and most bread and butter skills come with the equipment, such that equipping a Gladius allows you to use "double slash" and equipping a specific bow unlocks "rain of arrows" (for example). But having to be a mongol to be able to equip a bow and use bow skills and romans or gauls not being able to use bows ever? No.

But hey, it's your game and I'm just giving my opinion, so whatever floats your boat and have fun :)
 

chungsie

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sorry, I was in agreement with your proposal. I only thought you should know the time period.

I just don't know how to go about scripting for something like that.
 

gstv87

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one thing is characterization, another thing is stereotypization. (?)

characterization is creating a character with a lot of ties to several features of your game universe.... say a character is a priest, you might want to make him distrustful of other priests of other realms, or fearsome of druids or other pagan magic users.

you can also make him speak in a certain way.... enlightened and comforting, or wise, or curious.

he may also be living in some particular place and longing of his homeland if he's a missionary or a hermit.

characterization is how you make your characters act around the time and place they're in, according to their origins and expeciences.

stereotypization (?) is when you make your characters reference something the player might understand or relate to.

for instance:

-merchants: making them speak in accents close to spanish, italian or russian in period-specific movies; among a lot of characters who speak with british accent, a guy with a marked foreign accent stands out.

-cowboys: they either follow the Clint Eastwood path, or the Jim West path.... brown-ish sarape and cigar, or white shirt and vest, depending on wether the character is good or bad, or knightly or roguish.

-politicians: almost always they're bad guys.... they always have a conspiracy going on, or are tied to mafia families or are spies for foreign organizations.

-kings: almost always goodies.

-emperors: almost always baddies.

but that's ok, because it's easier to put an image that easily stand out, than to create a very complex character that the viewers (or player) have to understand to relate to.

nationalization is ok, as long as the nationalities you depict make sense within the game.

say you create a big empire in the shape and style of Camelot..... just because one citizen is from Camelot doesn't mean they have to be righteous.

their behavior is driven by their past experiences, not the soil they were born on: characterization!
 
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chungsie

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the forums for the team, has a forum for backstories.

So far we've discussed having Rogues as a possibly joinable semi culture.

But ya, there is no plan atm for voice acting. Although it's something we may consider seriously later on.

We have a lot of development to do before we can decide on a customization script for the player. But we offer a simple means for creating a character in the game. I do not know how to do the things discussed in this topic, so nationality is a class thing for now. But, if someone knows how to do that with a script, I am more than willing to hear how. I think it's easier to say something is necessary for x and y and z reasons, but to implement is another question.

But ya, as for the merchants... it would not make sense for a merchant from Egypt that trades in Rome to sound Roman.
 

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