Clarification of the 18+ and excessive violence rule

[trexrell]

1. No 18+ content: games with pornographic/extreme violence will be disqualified. These games should be playable by teenagers. If you are unsure if your content qualifies as adult-only, it’s best to leave it out or ask our support team.

What qualifies as a 17 and under content. Especially considering blood and gore. Our story that we want to concentrate on has some pretty disturbing context like rape. Since it is a western there will be shooting. Can we shoot people probably blow heads off and of course use blood. I think there should be some does and don'ts when it comes to this subject. Please let us know.

 

[mlogan]

I'm certainly not an official voice here, but I personally would classify rape as "extreme violence".

 

[Ruby]

The question of what constitutes lewd, pornographic, adult, etc. content is and always has been a very difficult question to just slap a definition on.

It really just depends. Some people feel as if one thing should go here and one thing should go there, but the best answer can only be "I'll know it when I see it."

How suggestive is your game? Will the 'rape' part leave a lasting impression? With mature content it is ALWAYS best to leave things up to the player to decipher what you are saying. Don't openly say "She is being raped." But say something like, "Some men did some unspeakable things to her which made her the way she is." That way it's more open to interpretation than just out and offending someone.

 

[Athryl]

I would also think about other games and the ratings they received, try to figure out where your game falls compared to something like Hotline Miami (rated M) vs Retro City Rampage (rated T).  Even though violence and strong themes do not personally get to me, I will be going with more tame themes for the sake of the contest just to be safe.

 

[Uzuki]

Well from what I understand from rules like this you can implicate that the scene is taking place but you can't show anything graphic. Like you can say that evil villain slaughtered town and you can show a few blood stains or a body here and there, but you can't show a giant pile of them. Remember there will be children playing these games too, so don't traumatize them. And word of advice if you go with the rape story: Be classy about it. Don't just shove it in there for the sake of being dark.

 

[Mouser]

How suggestive is your game? Will the 'rape' part leave a lasting impression? With mature content it is ALWAYS best to leave things up to the player to decipher what you are saying. Don't openly say "She is being raped." But say something like, "Some men did some unspeakable things to her which made her the way she is." That way it's more open to interpretation than just out and offending someone.

I'll generally agree, but I wouldn't say "always".  I can think of one adventure mod for Neverwinter Nights that pretty graphically depicts a rape, but that scene was vital to the story. If it hadn't been done that way, the story would have suffered tremendously for it. It was an 18+ mod for nudity and some other content, but even if they kept it from 18+ land, that scene would have to stay in the mod to tell the story the author wanted to tell.

I can think of a few movies I could say the same for, as well as movies that used rape scenes that really could've done without them (rape just for "shock value" and a bit of gratituous nudity). So it can work both ways.

Back to the OP question: in the US, guns and blood and killing people in general easily fall in the bottom end of the 'Teen' rating (if there was a rating between 'Teen' and 'Everyone' it would probably go there. That's Saturday morning cartoon stuff. I can remember my girlfriend waking up with nightmares after watching the episode of the 'new' Johnny Quest where a woman gets eaten by fish things...

Rape would probably still fall in teen as long as the woman's shirt stays on. Nipples automatically go into 'M' ('R' if it's a movie), unless it's breastfeeding or "indigenous peoples", and even there you have to be careful.

Germany has all sorts of weird laws - people all have to have green blood in them, and you can only kill them certain ways, and a bunch of other stuff that makes no sense to me but I'm sure to Germans it makes perfect sense. Then again, Germany has laws that make it a crime to walk down the street certain ways (cue: Monty Python skit).

 

[Diego2112]

I'm with mlogan on this one.  Rape would be extreme violence.  Then again, as someone who has a very personal connection with people who have been raped, I might be a bit biased.

My advice:  Leave that bit out if you CAN.  I'm not saying censor yourself or what have you (I'm against censorship as a principal), but 9 out of 10, rape is not required to tell a story.

This is just my two cents, and should be taken with a grain of salt, a wedge of lime, and a shot of tequila.

 

[Ruby]

I'll generally agree, but I wouldn't say "always".  I can think of one adventure mod for Neverwinter Nights that pretty graphically depicts a rape, but that scene was vital to the story. If it hadn't been done that way, the story would have suffered tremendously for it. It was an 18+ mod for nudity and some other content, but even if they kept it from 18+ land, that scene would have to stay in the mod to tell the story the author wanted to tell.

I can think of a few movies I could say the same for, as well as movies that used rape scenes that really could've done without them (rape just for "shock value" and a bit of gratituous nudity). So it can work both ways.

Back to the OP question: in the US, guns and blood and killing people in general easily fall in the bottom end of the 'Teen' rating (if there was a rating between 'Teen' and 'Everyone' it would probably go there. That's Saturday morning cartoon stuff. I can remember my girlfriend waking up with nightmares after watching the episode of the 'new' Johnny Quest where a woman gets eaten by fish things...

Rape would probably still fall in teen as long as the woman's shirt stays on. Nipples automatically go into 'M' ('R' if it's a movie), unless it's breastfeeding or "indigenous peoples", and even there you have to be careful.

Germany has all sorts of weird laws - people all have to have green blood in them, and you can only kill them certain ways, and a bunch of other stuff that makes no sense to me but I'm sure to Germans it makes perfect sense. Then again, Germany has laws that make it a crime to walk down the street certain ways (cue: Monty Python skit).

I guess I should have said "In cases like this one" <- I agree with you 100%.

 

[trexrell]

It is very vita to the story we want to try to insinuate it as much as possible. Is that still a bit of a stretch? I even feel showing a woman getting beat up is a bit over the top. All your responses are very helpful I really appreciate it.

 

[mlogan]

It seems to me you have answered your own question. If you feel beating a woman is too much, why do you question rape?

 

[Ruby]

If it is going to get you disqualified for the contest, why not just make a different game for it and put this one in normal EPF? They want this game to be played by all different ages (and possibly ported to the App Store(?)) If you NEED rape in your game, it probably isn't suited for the contest. 

I will say that it is fine for some games to have to flesh out the story, but I don't think this contest is a place for such themes.

 

[nio kasgami]

well In my opinion is how you ''work'' this kind of theme myself who working a lot this kind of manipulation in my mangaka jobs I know you have to be carefull when is about mature content because you have to take in consideration teenager  will play your game 

so for +18 stuff I advise you to avoid this but if your pervy mind abslutely need +18 stuff it is many way to input this because same in children manga we have weird perv allusion

so some kind of way for input this without ''shocking'' the people

• try to avoid direct word who automaticly make people think this is a pervy game (like I ho you have beautifull v*****a)
• avoid corse language don't need to have a polish  language but avoid hard word like b***ch or something like that (and aniway this is a lack of respect and vocabulary to use this kind of word)
• Don't put massive blood Scene! 
• don't make gore or perve allusion each 10 second you can make some alusion but rest soft 

finally think 10 minute before put +18 year's stuff...: did I really need this for make my game interesting?

and also think also this : a young kid can play to your game!

so Nio out~

 

[LuckyCassette]

Western culture for whatever reason finds sexual themes more egregious than graphic violence and gore.
Show one areola and you're just begging for an M or R rating.

Therefor it should stand to reason that sexual violence is even more intolerable to most. 
I don't agree that nudity by itself is more shocking than cold murder, which let's be honest, nearly all rpgs

are chock full of. And I would rather people be more progressive and not perpetuate these ideologies.

But this is obviously not the time to become a liberated artist. You are presenting to judges who've stated

that they want their game playable by minors, and so the obvious conclusion is that yes,

a rape scene is likely to get your game disqualified. You're playing on the judges terms, here. Try to think

of something that fits within the guidelines, and push boundaries on your own time.

 

[trexrell]

Well it isn't in a real perverted situation. I work with my wife who is the main story writer so it is her vision. It actually works quite well and gives the character some real depth. Regardless of what we all want to believe this happens ALL the time all over the world. We are actually doing a Wild West type of game in which the character faces great triumph through abuse and saves her own life. What better message to show someone rising from such a situation. It could be captivating and heart felt if done right. I personally do see this as really going a bit far even if it is slightly insinuated and not graphically shown. 

Its funny that this was mentioned but I do feel more comfortable with shooting someones head off than even insinuating rape. Society has gone clean off the rails.   I personally feel very uncomfortable with the subject so we will see about rewriting that very important part.

In a competition like this I think it is almost essential to take chances. This is one of our strongest stories and we really want to win. We were talking about dialing it down for the contest already but we wanted to know how far we should do so. Not only with this type of situation but also with the shooting. Since that involves blood and gore.

 

[mlogan]

I don't have a problem with a character who has been raped and the growth she has seen in overcoming that ordeal. I don't understand why it needs to be graphically portrayed. There are so many ways you can insinuate/allude to it without portraying the act itself.

edit: I just wanted to add, yes, this is all my opinion. And my opinion is going to be pretty conservative compared to many here. However, as others pointed out, this is a contest bound by rules and while there is some gray area in this rule, I would defer to what my mom always said, "If you have to ask, the answer's likely no." You yourself have doubts, and in my opinion, that should be enough right there. If you feel the need to explore graphic material, just do so with another game.

 

[Napoleon]

Horror games can also be considered 18+ . But I doubt that they meant that.

 

[Fomar0153]

I would be extremely surprised if rape was allowed. I would say no and I'm pretty sure the judging panel will.


If you'd like to make 100% sure it isn't allowed before dropping that element of the game then you can send an e-mail to info@rpgmakerweb.com and a judge will get back to you, typically within 48 hours.


As for where the line is drawn for other violence I've left a message for someone to clarify.