Class base stats

Discussion in 'Game Mechanics Design' started by Blizzero, Nov 20, 2018.

  1. Blizzero

    Blizzero Villager Member

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    I came up with about 20 classes (21 if the Explorer counts) for my game, here is just the first 5 I made along with a description of each.

    Warrior-A physical class with offensive abilities that varies depending on what weapon they
    have equip. It can equip Swords, Axes, Great swords, and Hammers. It can also equip shields and
    Heavy Armor.

    Thief-A support class that is Self-Explanatory. It can equip daggers and guns. It can also equip
    Normal Armor

    Black Belt-A Damage class that doesn't need any weapons to do damage. They can't equip
    any weapons and can equip Normal Armor.

    Shrine Priest-While it is a healer class, it also has some offensive abilities to boot. It can equip
    Rods. It can also equip Magic Armor.

    Wizard-While it has most of the offensive magic abilities, it also serves as an enfeeblement class,
    having spells that cause status spells. It can equip Wands, daggers, and Guns. It can also equip
    Magic Armor.

    Btw, the base stats for the Explorers (The default class everyone has) is as follows
    HP:150
    MP:70
    Atk:10
    Def:10
    Mat:10
    Mdf:10
    Agi:20
    Luck:20

    I was just wondering if anyone can help me figure out which should be raised or lowered.
     
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  2. MushroomCake28

    MushroomCake28 KAMO Studio Veteran

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    Depending on your max level, the starting stats have little impact. What matters is the stat gain per level for each class. Here's my take on class stat gain:

    Warrior:
    Highest: ATK, DEF
    High: HP
    Low: MP, MDF, AGI
    Lowest: MAT, LUCK

    Thief:
    Highest: AGI, LUCK
    High: MP, ATK
    Low: HP, DEF, MDF
    Lowest: MAT

    Black Belt:
    Highest: ATK, AGI
    High: MP, DEF
    Low: HP, MDF
    Lowest: MAT, LUCK

    Priest:
    Highest: MP, MDF
    High: MAT, AGI
    Low: HP, LUCK
    Lowest: ATK, DEF

    Wizard:
    Highest: MP, MAT
    High: MDF, LUCK
    Low: AGI, DEF
    Lowest: HP, ATK
     
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  3. Kes

    Kes Global Moderators Global Mod

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    @Blizzero Please remember that Game Mechanics Design is not for giving feedback on individual projects though they can be used as an example. Therefore, replies might not necessarily be relevant to your game, and that's okay.
     
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  4. Grunwave

    Grunwave Veteran Veteran

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    I spent hours making charts with pen-and-paper before going into the Actor/Class folder.

    I have made/balanced table tops and board games before, so this seemed like the most logical starting point to me.

    Do you have a list of all 20 classes and what each is supposed to do (STRENGTH v. WEAKNESS) ?

    I stopped at 11 classes personally because they are all balanced upon one another.

    Final Fantasy tactics has 20. But some of these are tier-based, like SQUIRE into KNIGHT into LANCER though. Are your 20 more tier-based, or are they all balanced against each other?
     
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  5. Blizzero

    Blizzero Villager Member

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    I in fact do, at least on a sheet of paper, they also all have different roles and abilities, so their more towards the latter. I just don't know how to make stats without a class becoming too overpowered or under powered compared to others.
     
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  6. bgillisp

    bgillisp Global Moderators Global Mod

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    Well for starters everything will also depend on your damage formula. You can have a damage formula where 100 points of ATK means nothing, and you can have a damage formula where 2 points of ATK is the difference between 0 damage and 9999 damage. So you may want to start there.

    As for the rest, what I did was I started out by giving each of my classes 25 points to assign between HP, MP, ATK, DEF, AGI, LUK, MAT, MDF. 1 was poor, 3 was average, 5 was great, and I did have a couple 6's (one fighter profession got that in their HP). Also strong special abilities cost a point each as well.

    Once I did that, then I decided what starting stat and ending stat represented those numbers for each class, created the curves, and went from there.
     
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  7. Grunwave

    Grunwave Veteran Veteran

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    I did something similar. Maybe try assigning 5-1 or A-E to each stats and see if any class is too OP.
     
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  8. Blizzero

    Blizzero Villager Member

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    I did do something like the latter, only mine goes from S-F and are percentage based. like shown below

    S=+50%
    A=+20%
    B=+10%
    C=+/-0%
    D=-10%
    E=-20%
    F=-30%
     
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  9. Tai_MT

    Tai_MT Veteran Veteran

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    To balance classes in my game, I simply settled on a format of "Point Buy System" like you'd see in Tabletops. Each class had roughly "30" points to spend. Each point spent on MP or HP resulted in gaining +5 to that stat... but otherwise, it was a straight 1 to 1 ratio.

    I took time to decide what each class would be about, which stats they would emphasize, and what roles those classes would play in combat. I distributed points accordingly. I had my "Soldier" class who only started with a baseline of 5 MP, but had 20 HP, equal amounts of points into Attack and Defense, half as many points into Agility and Luck, and barely anything into Magic or Magic Defense.

    I set up "three strengths, three weaknesses, all the rest are half of the strengths" as my system. With the Soldier here, I decided that HP, Attack, and Defense were his strengths. Magic was his weaknesses. The "speed" related stats were just normalized and half of what the strengths were meant to be.

    I had exactly one class that fell outside of this method, but it was an "optionally hidden" character who started with a baseline stat of 65 instead of the usual 30 everyone else started with.

    Are the characters balanced against each other? Sort of. I did it this way in order to try to make sure my combat was balanced. A creature with 15 attack would hit this character for this much damage, this other character for this much damage, etcetera. It was less important for me to think of my characters and classes as "balanced against each other" and more important for me to think of "what can they do amazingly on the battlefield that no other class can do?". I then distributed their stats appropriately for filling that role.
     
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  10. Wavelength

    Wavelength Pre-Merge Boot Moderator

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    It's impossible to figure out what stats characters should start with, or gain, until you've gotten a perfect grasp over what stats DO in your own game.

    For example, in a default RPG Maker project, ATK and MAG will raise the power of physical and magical attacks, respectively, DEF and MDF will reduce the power of incoming physical and magical attacks, respectively, AGI will determine turn order (and Escape chances), and LUK will have a basically negligible effect on (hostile) state application rates. However, those first four stats are only used in Skill Formulas (not any underlying mechanics, except in XP and earlier), and ATK and MAG usually raise the power by twice as much as DEF and MDF reduce them - which makes ATK/MAG twice as valuable... except in games where you are trudging through long dungeons without any easy form of healing... there, reducing incoming damage might be valuable if your skill formulas have high base damage amounts. And AGI might be really valuable in a game where most battles last just one or two turns, but it will be far less valuable if the battle lasts ten or fifteen turns... and it might even be counterproductive for some characters who use skills like Ailment Removal, since they'd want to clear the ailments AFTER the enemy acts! Then you have the consideration that some characters/classes will have both physical and magic skills, whereas some characters/classes will mostly use just one - for the former, you could say both ATK and MAG have 'normal' value, while for the latter one has almost zero value while the other has almost 'double' its normal value. For a mage, it might even get more complicated because the balance between the value of ATK vs. MAG will rely largely on their Max MP - in other words, how often can they use spells, and how often will they need to use their basic attacks? Finally, LUK is completely useless for all battlers unless you've used code or plugins to change its function, or added it to skill formulas.

    Yeah, that's a wall of text, and it's meant to be. There are so many different factors that go into "what should the stats be". You have to figure all of them out, or you're going to end up with imbalances as the game progresses. And it's all about what stats will actually do for a class or character. Sure, it makes sense for Warriors to have higher ATK and Mages to have higher MAG, but as the designer you have to figure out approximately how much "power" 10 points of ATK is worth to the Warrior, and how much power 10 points of that same ATK stat is worth to the Mage. The 10 points of ATK is almost definitely worth more to the Warrior than the Mage, and it will be worth more to both than 10 points of LUK are.

    Once you've figured all of that out, the hard part is out of the way. Then you just need to make sure that the classes have approximately equal total "power" (which is NOT be the simple sum of their stats, but rather the sum of each stat adjusted by how much power it's worth to that class) at Level 1 and at Level 99 (or whatever a reasonable high level is in your game).

    From there, playtest a bunch of troops using reasonable levels and equipment for when you fight that troop, and if any classes are consistently eclipsing others, or falling behind, figure out why that's happening and re-adjust the stats accordingly.
     
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