RMVX Class selection questionnaire/moral questions at the start

[heyguy]

Hey all! I like RPGs that ask the player moral questions at the start. A lot of older rpgs do it for class selection - like the classic Elder Scrolls games. Dragon Quest 3 asks questions to generate a personality for your hero (which threw you into a mini quest after and also affected your stats). I'm thinking about having some unseen Gods (related to the story) ask the player questions and I'd like to brainstorm with everyone!




My game protagonist has a set class for story purposes so I don't necessarily want questions to suggest/select your class. I'm just looking for other meaningful or realistic ways to implement this idea. How else could these question affect the game? The idea seems like an interesting way to add variety and possibly give the player a different experience on a second play-thru. I'm limited by not being able to code :-(

Ways questions could affect game
- Player would be awarded a different starting item (eh)
- Answers would affect player stats (I like this idea)
- Answers would affect starting abilities (I think this idea has a lot of potential)
- I have a skill tree so the answers could affect/unlock skill tree lines (not sure I like this idea but its closest to the original intent of class selection)
- Small tweaks throughout the game (if you answer green, NPC XYZ is no longer doing ABC) (maybe interesting)

I just really think it's a fun idea having Gods asking the player some moral questions at the start lol! I'm also reminded of Silent Hill: Shattered Memories which would periodically ask you questions throughout the game. It's just an idea, though. Not sure I'll run with it in the end. Anyway, I'm curious what others think and if y'all have ideas on how to have these questions affect the game in interesting ways. Thanks!

 

[gstv87]

the questions are just a way of distributing the initial points of the character creation.
solve THAT first, then put the questions on top.

for example, in Mount & Blade, the questions go something like:
"You were born as the son of:"
-A travelling merchant (makes you Sarranid OR Khergit)
-A city-dwelling smith (makes you Swadian OR Rhoddok)
-A coastal fisherman (makes you Nord OR Vaegir)

"You spent your childhood as:"
-a steppe child (gives you a horse, and if Sarranid or Khergit, makes you Khergit)
-a squire (gives you a sword, and if Swadian or Rhoddok, makes you Swadian)
-a scholar (gives you a book, and if Nord or Vaegir, makes you Vaegir)

"As you grew older, you were forced out of home by:"
-Wanderlust (makes you a ranger)
-Duty (makes you a footman)
-Hardship (makes you a mercenary)

 

[Willibab]

I don't care as long as I end up in Slytherin xD

 

[ATT_Turan]

I've never cared for this because I want to intentionally choose the class I want to play. Every game I've played with this mechanic I've ended up looking up guides online that tell you what the answers do, which ruins the RP aspect of it.

I would prefer something like this to affect your character, say some parts of their starting area or companions or their relationships/faction levels. But anything mechanical, like class, I should choose.

 

[Andar]

THE classic game that created this idea and used it first is "Ultima 4: Quest for the Avatar".
But there it had an entirely different purpose other than class selection.

The questions distributed points between the eight virtues - hidden attributes that were never displayed in the game, but affected by a lot of actions. Like running from battle reduced your courage, stealing from shops reduced your honesty, ignoring beggars reduced your compassion and so on.
And you could only complete the game if you really became the Avatar - maxed out all virtues over the course of the game.

Quest for the Avatar is one of the very few RPG-Games where your behaviour really counted (even if you could cheat by spamming the actions that gave points to virtues), and most games who adapted that questioning in the beginning failed to follow up on it, reducing the effect to the simple attribute and class selection you described in your post.

And as @ATT_Turan wrote, that is basically a bad failure of the original idea. If you are going with a questionaire then that should affect the entire game and story instead of just hiding a simple class selection, because as said most players like to select their classes directly.

 

[heyguy]

I would prefer something like this to affect your character, say some parts of their starting area or companions or their relationships/faction levels. But anything mechanical, like class, I should choose.

Interesting. Any specific ideas on how this could affect the starting area, companions, etc? I can see the starting area being harder or easier depending on the results. But a difficultly system seems more straightforward. The player might meet the mage, cleric or fighter character first depending on the questions and answers. That might be cool.

@Andar I'll have to research Ultima IV and see how they used the idea. Thanks for mentioning it. I'm a fan of Ultima 7 - the others seem a bit to archaic to play. Anyway, do you have any examples how I might use a questionnaire to affect the entire game and story (within the limited framework of an RPG Maker game)? The most interesting and feasible thing I can think of is changing stats/skills, unfortunately. Affecting the entire game and story sounds awesome but to what end? I can't think of any realistic ideas. And could it be done efficiently or would it be time-consuming?

Silent Hill: Shattered Memories had something that lasted throughout the game. If you answered questions in a sexual manner, the game would have women wear more revealing clothing (if I remember correctly). If your favorite color was red, your house would be the color red. Stuff like that. Anyway, looking forward to reading people suggestions! And now, I'm off to watch some YT videos on Ultima 4!!

 

[ATT_Turan]

Interesting. Any specific ideas on how this could affect the starting area, companions, etc? I can see the starting area being harder or easier depending on the results. But a difficultly system seems more straightforward. The player might meet the mage, cleric or fighter character first depending on the questions and answers. That might be cool.

Have you played Dragon Age? You have a different prologue chapter, companion, and conversations depending on the race and background you choose. You could just as easily do that as the result of the questionnaire.

Or, as Andar said, use it to define personality traits. Many games have a reputation/alignment system, or faction standings. As I mentioned before, those could all have different starting values based on the questions. So you established yourself as having a belligerent personality, that determines some of your available conversation responses or how some NPCs address you.

 

[ZombieKidzRule]

A few thoughts.

I don’t generally like this idea as a player. I have played games that give you the option of answering questions for starting character creation, choosing from set classes, or creating your own class. As a player, I am always going to opt for those in reverse order. Let me create what I want. If not, I will chose from specific classes. I would only do the questions if that was the only option.

One of the reasons I don’t like the questions thing is because I usually take issue with the choices for answers. I have taken way too many personality tests where I read the question and I don’t like any of the choices.

Worse are the ones where you choose between two actions and I am thinking both of these make me come off as a &#*@$#.

I guarantee if you draft a list of questions with answers, there are going to be a bunch of players who disagree or wonder how their answers resulted in the ending result.

Furthermore, many times this type of thing is predicated on stereotypes. But perhaps stereotypes that not everyone agrees with.

I’m not completely against the mechanic, but I think it is better if the results are not transparent to the player. Or, perhaps, you have to have very clear information for the player to know the stereotypes of classes and races for your particular game?

Final thought. Morality is not something that is universal. How you may feel about an action or decision may be very different from how someone else feels about that same thing based on their own experiences. Which can make this type of mechanic complex.

 

[BK-tdm]

You can pull this but inform the player what the outcome means, they can choose to either roleplay or base the choice on practical outcomes.

Skyrim's mod "live another life" has these questions but they have a (means X) attached either for clarity or practical reasons.

 

[heyguy]

Have you played Dragon Age? You have a different prologue chapter, companion, and conversations depending on the race and background you choose. You could just as easily do that as the result of the questionnaire.

Or, as Andar said, use it to define personality traits. Many games have a reputation/alignment system, or faction standings. As I mentioned before, those could all have different starting values based on the questions. So you established yourself as having a belligerent personality, that determines some of your available conversation responses or how some NPCs address you.

Thanks for elaborating! Dragon Age Origins was awesome! That definitely gives me some ideas. Creating multiple prologue chapters sounds time-consuming but it made DA: Origins very special. Maybe something like creating multiple intro cutscenes or mini scenarios would serve the same purpose. I'll have to think about what I can create within a reasonable time-frame.

Ah! Yes, I see now! Something like faction reputation/alignment seems like a simple idea that could add a lot to game play. That's something I'll look into. I planned to have different groups or "factions" but hadn't expanded on the idea. I'll need to think about what are appropriate faction/personality related questions. I don't want to ask the player if they're a member of faction X, Y or Z before even playing the game. I'm reminded of Mass Effect 1 and the simple choices you made in the beginning.

@ZombieKidzRule Great feedback! I really appreciate it! I agree with a lot of what you said actually. It's annoying being presented with no choice you like. That might be the point of some moral questions, though. Multiple choice can't really account for every possibility. Good point about morality, too. Questions were probably be slanted toward a Western morals perspective. Morals regarding family and friendship might hold throughout cultures, though. I do have slavery in my fantasy world which most would say is universally bad. Could ask some questions about that. In regards to stereotypes, I was probably going to avoid stuff like "you see a large orc near a farm house, racial stuff, etc". But giving players all the info they need before hand is a good idea.

@BK-tdm That's kind of one of the reason I bring up the topic. Are people going to be answering questions from a role play perspective or an irl-meta perspective. Guess it doesn't matter as I can't control people. Telling the player the outcome sounds like a good idea, either way. Thanks! I'll check out "Live another life" for ideas, too! Cheers!

 

[StrawberryFlower]

Tactics Ogre: Wheel of Fortune does this pretty well. It decides your alignment and slightly effects your stats. As it's a tactical game, tho, you can pick any class you want.

 

[pleaserefrainfromjudging]

A few months ago, I was considering the same thing as the OP. I actually searched until I found a copy of Ultima, so I could take the questionaire, and remember how they did it.

Ultima 4 is free on Gog. The questions are good cases of not having an obvious answer, and he lets you know which virtue (the attributes of the game) you are choosing.

You can pull this but inform the player what the outcome means, they can choose to either roleplay or base the choice on practical outcomes.

Skyrim's mod "live another life" has these questions but they have a (means X) attached either for clarity or practical reasons.

Yeah, this.

I feel like, if you tell the player what class they are choosing as they give the answers, then they don't have to go find a guide to get the class they want. It's less hassle for the player, but not quite as fun as not knowing.

If you don't want to tell them, though, an interesting option would be to suggest a class based on their answers, but allow them to still choose an incompatible class, and have some interesting role play come out of the mismatch later on.

Maybe say their life up till now has been "not very exemplary" for their class, and they have a slightly, or extremely bad reputation among the other members of their profession (depending on how incompatible their answers are.) Or an excellent reputation if they chose the class they were a perfect match for.

 

[Maliki79]

I STILL remember the class I first got when playing Ultima 4 for the first time! (NES) Trying to win as a Honest Mage was no joke! Make those class selections clear! Or at least have other benefits to your class choices.

 

[Fonixed]

I'd rather have in-game dilemmas that determine the player's alignment, stats and class so they can choose, rather than straight-up questions, for a few different reasons.

• The big one is it's more immersive and engaging (for me).
• It's easier to show the consequences of the action taken.
• It's a good way to show character growth.
• It adds a little more tension, especially if the decisions are timed.

Final thought. Morality is not something that is universal. How you may feel about an action or decision may be very different from how someone else feels about that same thing based on their own experiences. Which can make this type of mechanic complex.

This is a great point also.

 

[BubblegumPatty]

I think starting questionnaires are really cute, and a fun way to decide what to play when I get hit with choice paralysis.
That said, It'll be far more convenient to give the player the option to just pick the thing they want, either at the start or after they get a result they really hate. No one wants to rely on a guide to avoid being kneecapped.

 

[kyonides]

If you ever ignore what people like ATT_Turan said before, then you would have to let the player change those stats or that class in game at some specific point as to let the player avoid feeling desperate for his or her failure. They could end up despising your game and leave you terrible comments that might discourage new players from even testing your game. Nonetheless, I wouldn't go for it if I can simply let the player choose the hero's class and perhaps even the stats distribution itself as well.

 

[Gensun]

Minority opinion, but I think moral questions are pretty trite most of the time. They usually are set up with a dichotomy between good and evil which not only is good usually assumed to be the 'good' choice, statistically speaking most players are going to pick good especially on their first playthrough.

Final thought. Morality is not something that is universal. How you may feel about an action or decision may be very different from how someone else feels about that same thing based on their own experiences. Which can make this type of mechanic complex.

And if you're from my background, there's a good chance you would read these moral questions and your honest response would be "the question is wrong, yes and no are both invalid answers". Christianized cultures tend to see morality as a topic of what someone's personal beliefs are and see morality as universal. i.e. just like in the OP, Gods are judging you for the player's personal beliefs. Some moral philosophies don't care about individual opinions, but instead focuses on real implications on how it impacts the wider community. Universalism may be considered by people some some backgrounds as uselessly dogmatic and backhandedly repressive.

I feel this also ties to how western philosophies views your class position in society as being rooted in the life choices or even personal beliefs you hold, where other philosophies like buddhism might ask questions about your past life and how it impacts your class position today.

Still, ultimately how you write your game is greatly affected by your root world view so your approach to morality I just mentioned might be unavoidable if that's the lens you understand the world.

 

[kyonides]

Minority opinion, but I think moral questions are pretty trite most of the time. They usually are set up with a dichotomy between good and evil which not only is good usually assumed to be the 'good' choice, statistically speaking most players are going to pick good especially on their first playthrough.

And if you're from my background, there's a good chance you would read these moral questions and your honest response would be "the question is wrong, yes and no are both invalid answers". Christianized cultures tend to see morality as a topic of what someone's personal beliefs are and see morality as universal. i.e. just like in the OP, Gods are judging you for the player's personal beliefs. Some moral philosophies don't care about individual opinions, but instead focuses on real implications on how it impacts the wider community. Universalism may be considered by people some some backgrounds as uselessly dogmatic and backhandedly repressive.

I feel this also ties to how western philosophies views your class position in society as being rooted in the life choices or even personal beliefs you hold, where other philosophies like buddhism might ask questions about your past life and how it impacts your class position today.

Still, ultimately how you write your game is greatly affected by your root world view so your approach to morality I just mentioned might be unavoidable if that's the lens you understand the world.

Morality is good, it keeps you sane... unless the game is all about a character diving into madness after many disappointments and the like. I guess that's what happened to Sephiroth the more he delved into his own terrible past.

 

[Gensun]

Morality is good, it keeps you sane... unless the game is all about a character diving into madness after many disappointments and the like. I guess that's what happened to Sephiroth the more he delved into his own terrible past.

If it helps, one of my favorite indie wrpg's, Geneforge, approached morality in a way I thought was very interesting and not trite. Because of the way the game is structured, the player's morality isn't tracked by what the player believes (how do you even measure that without brain chips?) but is what the player's reputation is as they interact with its many NPC's. It stores a counter for how often you say nice or mean things about [oppressed minority group]. It also completely avoids the good vs evil dichotomy by creating factions where they're not clearly good or evil, but have different ideals which comes with their pros and cons.

Due to the way the game is coded, what I also thought was interesting was that the moral questions almost felt secondary to whether or not you're able to put your ideals to practice. The goal of the game is literally to help your desired faction win and beat the others to the ground.

 

[kyonides]

If it helps, one of my favorite indie wrpg's, Geneforge, approached morality in a way I thought was very interesting and not trite. Because of the way the game is structured, the player's morality isn't tracked by what the player believes (how do you even measure that without brain chips?) but is what the player's reputation is as they interact with its many NPC's. It stores a counter for how often you say nice or mean things about [oppressed minority group]. It also completely avoids the good vs evil dichotomy by creating factions where they're not clearly good or evil, but have different ideals which comes with their pros and cons.

That's not morality but favoritism so to say.
When you go down that path, you just wanna create too many subfactions that don't really affect the overall plot or game structure.

I don't know why people now hate the good kingdom-bad empire kind of dichotomy. It helped many games become actual franchises. Yeah, it's not that original but hey, it works really good. Now add some player's stance (or choice window) that says something like "I will work for the empire or Shinra Corp!" and you got a dark past that will affect the character's viewpoint on current events.