Cleaner Editor and Database (More Casual Friendly)

[BubbleMatrix82]

******* Please note, mockup is not intended design, I picked random buttons to show my concept of how tabs would work. Which buttons that are on which tab would require comments in the thread but each tab COULD have duplicates from other tabs so casuals could use the editor better *******

Description of the Feature:

• To help non-JS coders to find buttons for event planning.
• To help non-JS coders find what they are looking for faster since relevant features would be duplicated each time they could be useful.
• To help non-JS coders type narratives and other things faster if they are staying within the GUI and not doing much with the scripting engine (if anything).

Code for Implementation:
Just rearrange the menus, duplicate useful functions everywhere (like conditional branches, switches, and variables), and group things together in tabs so it makes better sense and has a more modernized editor experience.

Mockup

Why is this feature good?
This feature is great because of the following:

• The menus are just a sea of buttons and it could use some work to help people stay organized.
• Grouping would make things way less time consuming finding what you're looking for. I'd rather have 10 tabs with buttons on each tab (some buttons duplicates from other tabs) than 3 pages with random button functions on it that I have to master and remember where they are.

Possible issues with this feature?
Issues that might arise from this feature:

• Just the labor of redoing the graphical user interface. It's time consuming coming up with custom menus and moving buttons around, but I do feel it is necessary.

 

[Andar]

Please edit the topic to follow the template - that includes the poll with the question and answers exactly as given.

 

[BubbleMatrix82]

I made changes. Is this okay now?

 

[Kes]

Purely optional, but while waiting for Archeia to approve this, you might like to do a simple mock up to show what you mean, and make it easier for people to understand exactly what you are proposing.

 

[Archeia]

Hi in this topic's case, a mockup would help us understand what you mean. There are other suggestions in this boards that has sort of similar requests but I don't know what makes yours exactly different.

 

[BubbleMatrix82]

Updated with mockup. Probably 75% of the problems most "casuals" have with RPG Maker is its LACK of user-friendliness. If you can make the maker more user-friendly, then you can really improve the adoption rate of the software.

Also, a "tutorial" overlay button could be beneficial too. One that, when clicked, will dim the current screen and explain what the buttons do. I see a lot of mobile games do this to teach players "how to play", so a built in reminder of what things do, instead of expecting users to click the "help" button and read the antiquated help log might be of benefit too.

 

[Andar]

so you're not talking about the menu, but about the window to select event commands?
By the way, they are already grouped, just not by tab - but they got their group title as text on the window.

 

[BubbleMatrix82]

Changed the title to reflect editor. Yes, I understand they are grouped, but remembering what tab everything is on is just as bad.

I suggest having specific tabs for specific functions in the GUI experience. If players can stay on 1 tab to do their entire conversation, then stay on 1 tab to do their entire event movement/planning, then stay on one tab for their entire music/sound/panorama/etc, then the player will be less frustrated with the GUI and focus on what they want to do with their "game".

Yes, variables would be on EVERY tab, so would switches and a few other things, but it's not hard having a call to the same menu on several tabs. The goal is to make the GUI usable on a very primal level so all users can have an enjoyable and fast experience "making their game".

 

[BubbleMatrix82]

Anyone else care to have a cleaner editor for the casuals?

 

[bgillisp]

Decent idea, but the problem is that not everyone uses the suggested buttons you have for conversations. Keeping them grouped by function works well for that reason. For instance, your mock up is missing the following buttons which I have used in a conversation.

-Play ME
-Fade In/Fade Out
-Transfer Player
-Scroll Map
-Show Image
-Call Script
-Call Plug-In.

I could go on, but that is all that came immediately to mind. So the mockup as stated would actually slow down development as you would have to go searching for those features now, and we can't put every button on every page (space limits).

However...might be useable with improvement with the idea. Maybe see if you can improve the mock-up with this in mind? I think I see where you are going with this idea and it does have merit. Maybe it could be a tab 4 instead on the current editor, as a commonly used events for a conversation (and then the others)? Still wouldn't be perfect as your commonly used events are not my commonly used events, but it might be a step towards what you are proposing.

 

[BubbleMatrix82]

The idea is to have a tab for each editor action so people can click the editor action and not have to leave that tab.

If I make a dialogue, I click the dialogue tab to have all my dialogue options.

If I am making a function or a simple algorithm (again, non-js coder) then I click the logic or programming tab and have access to everything.

We absolutely MUST make the tool cleaner for the casuals and the "Children" as advertised in the branding of the tool.

 

[Andar]

@BubbleMatrix82 but different people use different options in their conversations.
What Bgillisp was trying to tell you that your example for conversation commands misses commands that he uses in his conversation events.

However, I think a good part of that is because you made mistakes in your mockup - you have a tab for movement, but placed a movement menu in the conversation tab.

And how do you propose to handle commands that are needed on several tabs? because nothing is more "functionality/logic" than the conditions, switches and variables, but you also need them to handle different reactions to conversations.

 

[LTN Games]

Probably 75% of the problems most "casuals" have with RPG Maker is its LACK of user-friendliness.

Where do you get this data from? I rarely hear people complain about the user-friendliness of the design. That being said I'd rather see a search box than a new GUI design. A search box that is not command specific but works with keywords. So typing in conversation will show commands for conversations, typing sounds shows everything related to audio etc. A new design seems counter intuitive when every user is familiar with the current design for the last decade.

 

[BubbleMatrix82]

@Andar

Placing a movement menu in conversation was intentional. It would be in both places.

I think people are used to clicking around to the various tabs so they don't care that I want convenience, but watch yourself when you do an event in editor next, do you flip between several tabs to do one thing? What if you could stay on one page to do it all and then flip to another page for another segment?

I know duplication on multiple tabs seems dumb, but it's the same "function call" to the same menus, so it doesn't add much file size, it's just a GUI thing. Variables and switches would be on basically every page, but you wouldn't have to find them!

Again, think of the dirty casuals who refuse to learn code.

@LTN Games

Did you know 86% of statistics are made up on the spot? Also, did you know that many people aren't early adopters who use this tool?

Again, this forum needs to stop acting like it is the core user base for this product. I don't care about numbers any more because I don't have insider information, but I do have hunches, and my hunch is most people are casuals who own the product and they are unable to make games because the product is antiquated.

We can argue that this would inconvenience the old timers if you would like, but when making development decisions you have to think about more than just your loyalists.

 

[LTN Games]

I could care less about statistic but I do care about people lying and spreading disinformation. You're clearly here to pick fights and troll because rather than speak about my suggestion which correlates highly with your suggestion you'd rather try and pick a fight. I had nothing bad to say in my last post yet here you are picking on people like a bully, you're no good for this community and rather than help you're creating problems. I've avoided many of your suggestions for this exact reason.

 

[Engr. Adiktuzmiko]

The problem with UI changes like this IMHO is that different people have different preferences on how they want things to look like.

If you really want a UI that works for any person, then the only way to actually do so is to make the UI editable by the user.

Again, this forum needs to stop acting like it is the core user base for this product. I don't care about numbers any more because I don't have insider information, but I do have hunches, and my hunch is most people are casuals who own the product and they are unable to make games because the product is antiquated.

The problem with this is that unless those casuals do go here and voice their opinion then we will never know which UI design is wanted by more people. Yes, this is not the only base, but unless those other bases do tell the devs what they want, then how will the devs know?

For example:

I sell microphones with a certain design
1000 people bought it
400 of them went to me and told me they liked it
The other 600 didn't go to me

Now I will never know if those 600 also found my design good or not right? Because of that, the only practical way that I have to know if the design is good or not is to base it from the 400 who went to me.

This is why when I see posts in FB groups asking help about RM I always tell them to go here, that way the developers of the engine will have a better grasp of the actual userbase of RPG Maker.

 

[BubbleMatrix82]

I could care less about statistic but I do care about people lying and spreading disinformation. You're clearly here to pick fights and troll because rather than speak about my suggestion which correlates highly with your suggestion you'd rather try and pick a fight. I had nothing bad to say in my last post yet here you are picking on people like a bully, you're no good for this community and rather than help you're creating problems. I've avoided many of your suggestions for this exact reason.

Change is only possible with hostility, otherwise people default to the status quo and what they are comfortable with... I'm not here to pick fights with people, I'm here to pick fights with ideas. You are absolutely right, I am not a good fit for this community; I never asked to be a part of it. I'm only here because of this Facebook post: "http://bit.ly/2nVXyey The future of RPG Maker MV is in your hands! Visit the RPG Maker MV Improvement boards to make suggestions, or vote for the ones you like." --- If the future was in this community's hands, it wouldn't change except for selfish reasons. So yes, I am not part of the community. I am part of the improvement team. Get over it.

That said, I totally agree that a search box in the "existing" menu would probably suffice. But that said, it would still look like a Windows XP application now wouldn't it? Having the tabs also brings the editor into the Windows 7/10 era. So this isn't just about customization and convenience, this is about branding and relevance.

Why not marry my idea of tabs with your idea of searching and E.Miko's idea of customizing it the way you want it instead of having default buttons?

The idea about a concrete editor having absolutes of any kind is that everyone will not agree on it. This is human nature to have personal preferences. But as a group who's been tasked with making the product better for everyone, we have to make design choices that benefit more than just ourselves. If we needed a static menu (which is the case right now) tabs and repeated buttons makes more sense. If we could have a dynamic menu, a custom menu with searchable functions is ideal. The problem is, building search functions into a gui is complicated. So making a static window with tabs is way more of a "doable" upgrade than searchable one.

Lastly, any GUI changes should have a "retro" version where all you old timers can have your old version without needing the "hip" version to accommodate the new adopters.

 

[bgillisp]

How about this? Could there be two GUI's? I know we were able to add skins to the engine, so could it be possible to make two GUI's, one like it is now, and one like @BubbleMatrix82 suggests? Maybe filter it by commonly used commands?

Or...maybe we could modify this idea to use tabs, but one for each type of commands. Instead of having a bunch of things on page 1, page 2, page 3, put all types of events on each tab. I think it would take...12 tabs? I'm not home so I can't check or be more specific though.

 

[The Stranger]

I'd be happy with a cleaner interface. I don't think it's as important as some of the other suggested improvements, though.

 

[BubbleMatrix82]

How about this? Could there be two GUI's? I know we were able to add skins to the engine, so could it be possible to make two GUI's, one like it is now, and one like @BubbleMatrix82 suggests? Maybe filter it by commonly used commands?

Or...maybe we could modify this idea to use tabs, but one for each type of commands. Instead of having a bunch of things on page 1, page 2, page 3, put all types of events on each tab. I think it would take...12 tabs? I'm not home so I can't check or be more specific though.

Love this idea.