Cliffs: Autotile + normal tile versions, both necessary?

[Liak]

Before assembling my own tilesets, I just wanted to ask if there is any reason to have the cliffs as autotiles and as a normal tile version. What I mean is, if you have a look at the default Exterior tileset, you have two versions of cliffs. One autotile version and one at the bottom of the A tab. Is that one really needed? I just played around a little with these tiles and it seems you can do anything you want with the autotiles, so there's no need (except maybe convenience in some situations, but that doesn't count).

 

[Besus]

I prefer the manual tiles personally as I'll often layer multiple cliffs on top of each other, and the autotiles make this a real pain requiring lots of shift-clicking. Since every time you click within an autotiles cliff, it re-autotiles it around the new tile.

If anything they should get rid of the autotile version since I'm sure most people use the manual ones.

 

[Jesse - PVGames]

They both have their place. The auto-tile is good for making larger expanses of cliff if you aren't getting overly fancy, while the manual tiles are good for more precise mapping, as Besus mentioned.

 

[Indrah]

A5 tiles can be given directional passability, whereas A1-4 tiles can only be passable or non passable.

The A5 tiles are used mainly to make WALKABLE cliff sections. THey allow for actual borders.

If you tried to make the nromal cliff autotile passable, it would not have any border configurationa at all.

So yeah, in A5, the cliff "floors" are an absolute necessity. THe cliff "walls", not so much (I've never used them).

 

[Liak]

Ah, I see. Thank you very much!

And Indrah, the walls can do one thing the floors can not: 1-tile-wide branches of cliff, or however you want to call it. You always need two floor tiles to form a branch. Or tongues. I don't know the proper term.

EDIT: Okay, I am still confused. I thought I got it, but no. Indrah, would you mind giving me an example where the autotile version doesn't work, and the A5 version becomes necessary?

http://s1.directupload.net/images/130108/6y3dm7o7.png

I just made this map to see what the autotiles can do and what not, and I couldn't find any place where I slipped off the cliff or something. It all seems to work as it should.

 

[Besus]

Your point of being able to create one-tile wide cliffs is probably (in my opinion) the only advantage as I have used this (shift-click method) in conjunction with the non-autotiles.

As for an example of something you couldn't create with the autotiles:

Spoiler

 

[Indrah]

Autotiles have no 4 directional passabilities. At all. THey're either passable or they are not. A5 tiles are NOT atuotiles (they are fixed tiles) and can have 4 directional passability.

For mapping cliffs, simply put: if you use an autotile, all those graphical rock borders mean jack **** to the program. It would be the same as mapping in full raw grass. All the editor knows is that it's "passable". It has no borders as far as it's concerned.

A5 tiles can be configured, and the editor reads them when calculating passability.

"And Indrah, the walls can do one thing the floors can not: 1-tile-wide branches of cliff, or however you want to call it. You always need two floor tiles to form a branch. Or tongues. I don't know the proper term."

I have absolutely no idea of what you mean. THe cliff walls in A5 are duplicates of the autotile, anamely the second and third tile rows in a 3*3 setting.

Bascially you can do the same damn thing with the cliff wall autotile and shift clicking, and you probably will anyway, since the A5 section does not have the "first row" tiles (the horzontal tiles closer to the upper cliff end, so you'd have to shift click THOSE).

Pff, Frick this. Have it visually. It's hard to convey in text.

Bottom line: They're the same damn thing. In fact, using them is more work than simply shift-makkign with the auotile in whatever size you need.

 

[Besus]

Before Indrah flies off the handle even further here, this is what he is talking about:

 

[Indrah]

Before Indrah flies off the handle even further here, this is what he is talking about:

-snip-

It is. You just have to edit the A5 tile.

If you wanted narrow WALKABLE cliffs with proper passability setting, you'd only need to use the auotile to duplicate what you need.

If what you want is non passable "decorative cliffs", then the auotile is the best bet, obviously. But since his screenshot attempted to connect stairs to a cliff, I gather he wants it to be properly walkable.

(Also obviously, all the A5 cliffs are duplicates of shapes of the autotile, so nothing very much is doable without the auotitle source, no).

 

[Shaz]

Autotiles have no 4 directional passabilities. At all. THey're either passable or they are not. A5 tiles are NOT atuotiles (they are fixed tiles) and can have 4 directional passability.

We were just talking about this on Skype. You can't SET autotile passability (4dir) yourself, but they do have it. I just made a map like the one above, using autotile for the cliff edges and top, and the player can't walk from the edges onto the ground below. To see, use our dropbox project and create a dummy map, then use my Passability script (already in the project) to hit P and see where you can/can't walk on them. If YOU CAN walk from the cliff onto the ground, I bet that's the same thing that stopped you walking in those areas where I could walk just a few minutes ago.

 

[Liak]

Man, this turns out to be a really interesting topic, it seems. And all I wanted was to know if I can get rid of one of the versions without limiting my possibilities.

So if I got this all right, there isn't any real need for the A5 tiles, except if you want to change the passabilities of some of the tiles for whatever reason (which you normally don't, do you? I see no reason).

 

[Shaz]

I'm not fond of the cliff autotiles at all. Yes, you can do more with them, but they take an AWFUL lot more effort to use. I dislike the fact that you have to have a separate area on your map where you can draw them out, then use shift clicking to put the tile you want where you want. And the moment you forget to hold down the shift, it's not just the tile you're clicking that reverts to some automatic id, but the tiles around it, and the tiles around those, and so on.

I must prefer XP's "double click on the autotile then choose the one you want, and I won't mess up the surrounding ones" method.

So if I had to use one or the other, I'd use the A5 tiles.

 

[Indrah]

Only get rid of the FLOOR cliff in A5 if you don't want to do cliffing (you can ditch the walls).

You COULD make every single piece with the autotiles and then copy it, but in practice it's more work than it's worth.

 

[rhyme]

Actually, the autotile cliffs are passable and capable of directional passability too. (This is assuming default tileset settings of course)

 

[kerbonklin]

I like using the Exterior Outside_A5 cliffs since it looks neat and gives a nice sense of height, and I have diagonal versions of those cliff tiles to make things more lively and less block-y.