Combat System like Little Fighter 2

shadyneighbour

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Hi everybody!

This is my first time posting here; I've been mucking around half-heartedly with various game programs for over a year, but I've only really started seriously experimenting in the last few months (and my creations now, while still nowhere near "good", are stellar compared to my first abominations).

Now, for the matter at hand.

I have been working on a little project for fun that, until I think of a title, is currently named 'Generic Fantasy RPG'. I have been tweaking and fiddling with ideas like quests, sidequests, and am even building up to things like variables on how much a character likes you (because errybody seems to love romanceable *cough* waifu *cough* characters in RPGs nowadays), as well as morality systems!

However, the big issue here at hand is combat. Combat is a vital part of every RPG, and I don't want to be one of the hundreds of guys out there who has the standard turn-based RPG fight system (no offence to those of you who do use that; it has it's charm, but I figure there are plenty of people out there who already do it way better than me, so I might try something different).

Today I thought about the game Little Fighter 2, a game I spent countless hours playing when I was a teenager. I thought that, rather than a generic turn-based system, why not use something like that?

The idea would be, your character is walking along, doing their thing, when all of a sudden you have a random encounter! Screen goes all squiggly, fades out, starts playing battle music, and fades into a a screen like an LF2 battle scene. Character and Party members get to run and jump about, fight a predetermined number of bad guys, and use basic attacks, as well as 'Special Moves'. When all enemies are defeated, battle ends, and there is much rejoicing. If party is defeated, Game Over occurs, and there is significantly reduced rejoicing.

So basically, are there any scripts out there that could give me what I need to do that?


Thanks in advance!
 

DoubleX

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It seems to me that you're requesting a 2.5D Action Battle System(ABS). I don't know if there's any, but searching ABS might work :)
 

Andar

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Unfortunately you don't describe the LF2 fighting system well, so people who never played that game have trouble understanding what exactly you want.

There are a lot of different battlesystems available on the master script list, but I can't even point you to the type or search terms because I don't know LF2.

Please try to give a better description, and we can help you more.
 

shadyneighbour

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Thanks a lot! I will look this up, it may be what I'm looking for!

There's a bunch of stuff I'd like to do with this if I can. I'd still like characters to have their own individual stats and strengths and I'd like them to excel at different things. I'd make it so out of all your party members maybe 3 and the PC can jump into a fight? Basically meaning that who you'd choose to have in your party would heavily influence how the fight turns out.

To sum it up, stuff I hope to be able to (eventually) with this:

- Support a range of character types (Healer, Warrior, Rogue, Occult Witch, Summoner, etc.)
- Have the option to implement waves of enemies instead of all of them at once.
- Use special moves with commands like Little Fighter.

- The possibility of Combos/Linking Special Moves
 

DoubleX

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Unfortunately you don't describe the LF2 fighting system well, so people who never played that game have trouble understanding what exactly you want.

There are a lot of different battlesystems available on the master script list, but I can't even point you to the type or search terms because I don't know LF2.

Please try to give a better description, and we can help you more.
Agreed, and he/she should at least include something like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4GZYEyS074

On a side note, he/she'll probably have to find a truly willing 2.5D + ABS prodigy to offer an extremely expensive commission(like 1000+ USD? I don't know), then wait for several months or even years for the commission to be completed, as it's 2.5D(The harder part in my wild guess) + ABS :)
 
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Iavra

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As someone who has played said game in the past i can assure you that such a script would take a really experienced scripter months to complete and i don't think anybody would want to do this for under a few thousand dollars or even for free.
 

Andar

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If he disperses with the movement to get to the next enemies, that is pure sideview - Symphony if he wants the action sequences (skill uses) on the screen.

Otherwise he can try the Arc engine for a platformer
 

DoubleX

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If he disperses with the movement to get to the next enemies, that is pure sideview - Symphony if he wants the action sequences (skill uses) on the screen.

Otherwise he can try the Arc engine for a platformer
Unfortunately, Arc Engine won't solve his/her request, as it's 2D while Little Fighter 2 is 2.5D. Unless he/she doesn't mind using 2D instead of 2.5D though.

Afaik, there are several ABS, platformer and 2.5D scripts. It's the combination of 2.5D + ABS that makes this request extremely challenging to even the most proficient 2.5D and/or ABS scripters.

P.S.: To me, compared to this request, writing an advanced complex atb system is like a cakewalk lol
 
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shadyneighbour

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Haha yeah, my bad on not providing an example; I wanted to, but being a new member I had to wait for the clock to tick over to midnight so I could respond lol.



The example I would have posted is something like this.



I explained poorly; just to clarify I have no interest in online multiplayer capabilities like LF2, scrolling screens, or even items falling from the sky. It's more just the camera angle, movement, and fighting mechanics I was interested in. Purely single player, with CPU controlling party members (although the ability to give orders or swap characters like in Dragon Age would be sweet as).

For now though, I'd be more than happy just to move, jump, attack, and block, and work out the tricky stuff later.

Also, in regards to commissioning; I'd be more interested in learning this myself. I mean, what's the point in someone else getting to have all the fun?

You have all given me some interesting stuff to consider, though.
 

shadyneighbour

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Unfortunately, Arc Engine won't solve his/her request, as it's 2D while Little Fighter 2 is 2.5D. Unless he/she doesn't mind using 2D instead of 2.5D though.

Afaik, there are several ABS, platformer and 2.5D scripts. It's the combination of 2.5D + ABS that makes the request extremely challenging to even the most proficient 2.5D and/or ABS scripters.
I assume it's the depth that creates the biggest issue in 2.5D+ABS? Sorting out lanes and hit boxes, not to mention height in combat?
 

DoubleX

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I assume it's the depth that creates the biggest issue in 2.5D+ABS? Sorting out lanes and hit boxes, not to mention height in combat?
Yes, as in general, the toughest obstacle to overcome in ABS is to manage the space.

While a 2D ABS just need to handle a plane, a 2.5D ABS needs to handle a cube, even though it's still displayed as a plane.

Writing a 2D ABS probably needs at least advanced scripting proficiency(scripting veterans having written at least 1 advanced complex script) already. Writing a 2.5D ABS... I hope you've an idea how hard it would be lol

The obvious problem in handling space is movement mechanics, while the less obvious one is the movement AI. While there are quite some powerful scripts handling those in the 2D space, as 2.5D still uses the 3D space which is displayed in 2D, both the movement mechanics and AI need to be able to handle the 3D space.

If you want to do this yourself, you also need to be a Little Fighter 2 modding expert(which is again a cake walk compared to writing a 2.5D ABS), as a large part of using a 2.5D ABS is doing just that(again, it's a cake walk compared to fully utilizing the 2.5D ABS in your request).

If you managed to do all these yourself, you'll probably be one of the most sophisticated scripter ever :)
 

shadyneighbour

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Yes, as in general, the toughest obstacle to overcome in ABS is to manage the space.

While a 2D ABS just need to handle a plane, a 2.5D ABS needs to handle a cube, even though it's still displayed as a plane.

Writing a 2D ABS probably needs at least advanced scripting proficiency(scripting veterans having written at least 1 advanced complex script) already. Writing a 2.5D ABS... I hope you've an idea how hard it would be lol

The obvious problem in handling space is movement mechanics, while the less obvious one is the movement AI. While there are quite some powerful scripts handling those in the 2D space, as 2.5D still uses the 3D space which is displayed in 2D, both the movement mechanics and AI need to be able to handle the 3D space.

If you want to do this yourself, you also need to be a Little Fighter 2 modding expert(which is again a cake walk compared to writing a 2.5D ABS), as a large part of using a 2.5D ABS is doing just that(again, it's a cake walk compared to fully utilizing the 2.5D ABS in your request).

If you managed to do all these yourself, you'll probably be one of the most sophisticated scripter ever :)
Haha I think I may have a long way to go before I'm on that kind of level, but I'm willing to give it a shot. I realised before I even posted this was probably some extremely advanced stuff.

Still, if I can even find a script that can get me started, that will be a massive help. I'll certainly be searching far and wide to see if any suit my needs.

And if need be, I can still make my idea work in 2D :)
 
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DoubleX

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Haha I think I may have a long way to go before I'm on that kind of level, but I'm willing to give it a shot. I realised before I even posted this was probably some extremely advanced stuff.

Still, if I can even find a script that can get me started, that will be a massive help. I'll certainly be searching far and wide to see if any suit my needs.

And if need be, I can still make my idea work in 2D :)
If you've at least some scripting proficiency(inexperienced scripters having written few simple yet complete scripts and basic understanding of how the default RMVXA scripts work), you can begin from studying how pixel movement works in the 2D space, by studying existing pixel movement scripts(search pixel movement) and reading these:

http://himeworks.com/2014/09/dev-log-starting-out-with-pixel-movement/

http://himeworks.com/2014/10/dev-log-pixel-movement-and-event-interaction/

Then unless the 3D space of your battlegrounds are always just empty cubes, you'll have to study how pathfinding works in the 2D space, by studing existing pathfinding scripts(search pathfinding).

If you don't think you can comprehend how pixel movement and pathfinding works in the 2D space, you can forget about your request already, as what you really need to handle is the 3D space.

If you only have little(beginning RGSS3 coders being able to write the most basic codes) or even no scripting proficiency, you'll want to learn from the RGSS3 basics first.

P.S.: Again, I hope you're already a Little Fight 2 modding expert, otherwise you'd have a lot more to catch up lol
 
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Wavelength

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Mog's Linear Motion Battle System Script (inspired by the early Tales Of games) is the closest thing you'll find for this - but Little Fighter does this weird thing where it's using the Y-coordinate for both jumping and moving further into the "background" so that's one thing you would probably have to lose if you used this script, unless you add on some scripting of your own.  Might be the same with the ability to smoothly transition from one battle screen to the next without returning to the map.

This kind of thing is very hard to make on RPG Maker without using a premade script - it's certainly possible, I mean Mog basically started from scratch and made what he made - but it takes a lot of time and RGSS expertise to pull off.  So it's worth considering how much of your valuable time and energy you want to devote to making something like this, versus making the content of your game.
 
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DoubleX

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If you comprehended 2D pixel movements and pathfinding, you can try to comprehend animation sprite sheets(2D of course), which is an integral part of Little Fighter 2. Again, if you don't think you can comprehend that, you can forget about your request already.

On a side note, when thinking about pathfinding, hostile projectiles are also obstacles, as smart ais will try to avoid them.

Also, almost forgot to ask 1 more thing:

In Little Fighter 2, objects(including battlers) has displacements(at least used for ai and pathfinding), velocities and accelerations, in a 3D space. Those vectors are specific for each action of each battler. If you want to replicate those in your request, you'll need a basic 3D kinematics engine, which needs to deal with 3D vector manipulations effectively and efficiently, implying that external tools(like dlls, gems and/or libraries) are likely needed in order to prevent significant lag.

Mog's Linear Motion Battle System Script (inspired by the early Tales Of games) is the closest thing you'll find for this - but Little Fighter does this weird thing where it's using the Y-coordinate for both jumping and moving further into the "background" so that's one thing you would probably have to lose if you used this script, unless you add on some scripting of your own.  Might be the same with the ability to smoothly transition from one battle screen to the next without returning to the map.

This kind of thing is very hard to make on RPG Maker without using a premade script - it's certainly possible, I mean Mog basically started from scratch and made what he made - but it takes a lot of time and RGSS expertise to pull off.  So it's worth considering how much of your valuable time and energy you want to devote to making something like this, versus making the content of your game.
Unfortunately, that script is 2D while Little Fighter 2 is 2.5D(3D space displayed in 2D). The latter uses the y-coordinate normally, but it has the real z dimension(depth) in the battle space(even though the camera angle is always fixed and everything are always displayed in a plane, the battle space itself is indeed a 3D space), which is different from the ordinary z-coordinate in the default RMVXA and 2D ABS, which decides which stuffs are displayed over which other stuffs. Again, it's the 2.5D combined with ABS that makes this request so exceptionally difficult(and insane imo lol). If it's changed to 2D instead, this request would be solved quite quickly.

Nevertheless, I agree with you that this request is possible, but to me, it's by far the most difficult(yet possible) request I've ever seen. But as he/she wishes to solve this request on his/her own, I can only give him some high level advices, concepts and directions.

Again, if he/she can solve this on his/her own, I'm pretty sure he/she'll be one of the most sophisticated scripter ever :D

P.S.: I've no 2.5D nor ABS scripting experience at all(at least not yet), I just have some 2.5D ABS modding experience :)
 
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Eschaton

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It's not RPG maker, but consider Googling "Beats of Rage."
 

DoubleX

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It's not RPG maker, but consider Googling "Beats of Rage."
Although it won't solve the request directly, it can probably help the op understand 2.5D ABS better, as using it should be similar to using his/her would be 2.5D ABS :)
 

shadyneighbour

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Sweet, I will be sure to look through all this. This is some great stuff!
 

Eschaton

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You can use any of the ABSs available in this community. Getting the 2.5d effect is a matter of mapping and strategic placement of your backgrounds. You'll also have to set up movement either with a script or by cleverly editing the sprite sets, to show characters moving like they do in a beat 'em up.
 
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DoubleX

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You can use any of the ABSs available in this community. Getting the 2.5d effect is a matter of mapping and strategic placement of your backgrounds. You'll also have to set up movement either with a script or by cleverly editing the sprite sets, to show characters moving like they do in a beat 'em up.
While I think displaying the graphics and implementing pixel movements in 2.5D ABS isn't that hard, I'm interested in the following about the 3D space management in the 2.5D battleground:

1. Are existing ABS already compatible with any possible 3D space collision detection script, 3D space pathfinding script(even more complicated if 3D kinematics also come into play), and ABS battler and projectile movement ai script that works in the 3D space?

2. Objects in Little Fight 2 has shadows right beneath them(always displayed on the ground). Unless the op aren't going to replicate that, are existing ABS already compatible with any possible script that can always keep the objects and their corresponding shadows synchronized?

3. If the op decides to replicate individual object action displacements, velocities and accelerations in Little Fight 2 as well, are existing ABS already compatible with any possible 3D kinematics engine?

4. Some skills(such as explosions) in Little Fighter 2 have 3D damage regions(almost always cubes afaik). Are existing ABS already compatible with any possible 3D region detection scripts?

5. Even a 2D ABS already needs extremely performant codes to run smoothly. Are existing ABS script codes performant enough to handle a 2.5D ABS?

If there are any such existing ABS, I'd be glad to know :)
 
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