Commercial Games

[Pegasus]

I feel people shouldn't want to go commercial, they should be given it through hard work and dedication in doing something they love. Being some greedy bastard is going to end up making you like every corporation in the world, and as an indie developer you should stay away from that.

I knew that this topic would be up sooner or later here and I'm glad you raise ths point! My personal opinion on this is that many of us who have been rpg gamers have one day or another, dream of making our own personal game with our own personal storyline and vision. While this could not be done in the past due to a lack of programming knowledge, we now have rpg maker that could help us achieve the unachievable!

Certainly when we see most commercial games using the same graphics of the RTP or even modified graphics, many of us tends to believe that the developper lacks creativity/vision and is lazy to make custom graphics. But what we forget is that the developper may not have sufficient money to pay for an artist. He/She is trying to achieve his/her childhood dream and there is indeed a very long road to walk before making a professional looking game.

The 1st commercial rpg maker game is a 1st step in the commercial industry and the developper will indeed learn a lot from this experience. I believe that a developper needs at least 3 commercial releases to learn how the fans react to the game and learn the aspects of marketing/communication.

Take example of Aldorlea games, their 1st release was more or less simple, but as the company progresses in their releases, their games tend to improve a lot in terms of graphics/story/professionalism. This is the best example of a rising company who will go very far if they keep improving each year. Amaranth games also is the reference to show that one can go very far if one believes in ones dreams to be commercially successful.

Personally, I don't think 'greed' as you say, motivates them to try their luck with rpgmaker but it is more the feeling that each developper thinks he/she has that special story and vision of a game and wants to share that with people. Each game has its own soul and you can tell how talented/passionate or dull someone is, just by playing their game.

 

[Engr. Adiktuzmiko]

Being too ambitious is one of the main reasons that first game making tries fail especially when working alone... as for commercialization, well I don't see anything wrong with that, be it done by first-timers or seasoned makers... it's their creation, let them do what they want... no one is forced to buy them anyways...

also, if you started out making games with RM just because you're greedy, maybe you should stop right now as there are a lot more other options which are easier and will yield more money to satisfy your greed... and I don't think you can actually finish making a game that will sell if the only thing in your mind is the money (unless you're something at the level of the big game companies where their games are already "sold" the moment they are revealed)...

 

[Shaz]

There can be two motivations for trying to sell an RM game - you either love making them and want a career doing it, or you see that others are doing it successfully, think there's no effort required, and see it as a way to make a quick buck. People can be greedy whether they're doing something they love or not, and I don't think we can really judge that - if they do it well, they deserve to profit. If their focus is on the money and they don't put in enough effort, the results will reflect this. They will either do well, realise they DO need to put a lot of work into it to make a good product, or will see it's not as easy as they thought, and not worth it, in their view, to continue.

I think it's great that more people are trying to sell their games. There are so many great developers here who COULD be very successful commercially but either have no interest or lack the confidence to sell their games. Those who are just starting, whether they've made free games before or not, should not go into it with the view that they'll be able to retire, or even switch to making games full time. You should expect this, and you should expect profit to be low and gradually increase with each game, if you work to improve each one. In the rare case that the game does better than you expect, well, that'll be a nice surprise

One thing's for sure ... it's not a lazy way to earn a living, and those who go into it thinking that will change their minds pretty quickly.

 

[Touchfuzzy]

I'll just say that I would love to make money off of a hobby turned job. (I could say what I am doing now is somewhat similar, but I never had a hobby of writing tutorials really).

People need to lighten up, really. No one owes anyone anything. Commercial devs aren't owed sales, and RMers aren't owed free games. Basically if a guy makes a game, and he wants to sell it, as long as he isn't doing it fraudulently, I could care less, even if it looks like trash to me. On the other side, if you want to make a commercial game that sells, make something good.

 

[Indinera]

it's not a lazy way to earn a living

It's very true. IMO it's a very exciting and stimulating job, but... if you see game making as "tedious", or have to find motivation to even open RM, you'll burn out very fast. You have to really love game making to go down that road.

 

[Ellie Jane]

If you think that making a game is easy enough that it cannot be a real job then you are very wrong. (That's an "if" by the way, I am not implying that's what you meant).

I have commercial aspirations because I would rather do something I enjoy and am good at and get paid a pittance, than do something I struggle with for somebody I hate for mega bucks. On top of the fact that for various reasons (mainly that there aren't any) I can't get a "real job".

Self employment is nothing to be discouraged. I think it's brilliant. If anything it frees up real jobs for people who aren't so, eh, creative?

Game making is a form of art, and certainly isn't as easy as people make out. It's definately something that can deserve a reward, even if that reward is just bread on the table. People here do some pretty great work, and yeah it might be nice if it was all free but I don't see a problem accepting money if people are willing to pay it.

 

[amerk]

I will probably never pay for a commercial RM game myself, but to each their own. There's way too many free games available, and many I've played that are at least on par (if not better) than the commercial titles I've played. The sort of nail in the coffin is when I see a so-called popular commercial game that falls apart because of poor writing and grammar. I've come across two like that, and it's made me much more anti-commercial as a result. At least with a free indie game, the only thing I might have wasted is time, not money.

But then I also have to question true commercial developers these days as well; and by this I mean developers that work for a game making corporation for console titles. There just seems to be a lack of effort these days, which is primarily why I haven't upgraded to anything beyond my Playstation 2.

 

[Helladen]

Making a game with RPG Maker is 1/10 the scale of making a game from scratch - it is extremely easy when compared to this. Your time is valuable, but you need experience in the field you are doing before you can make profit from it. I consider game making a hobby, something I do for free, and anyone else here should feel the same way. If you have bills to pay that's fine, but a hobby should come after you have worked, and be done in your free time.

If you can eventually turn it into a job that's great, but don't jump into this field and try to go commercial your first 10 games. If your games aren't long, you would want to make even more than that.

 

[Shaz]

What are you basing all of this on?

Yes, using RPG Maker is easier than making a game from scratch, but WHO makes a game from scratch these days? Only people who have plenty of time and plenty of money, or no deadline (ie - they're not depending on the game for their income).

I agree that you should try and make a game or two from start to finish before you jump into the commercial arena, but that too depends on what type of person you are. If you find it hard to finish things, it'll still be hard, no matter how many games you have under your belt. And where does the magic "first 10 games" come from? Your experience? Experience of others in the field? There are several commercial devs here, and I doubt many (or any) of them waited until they'd finished 10 games before going commercial.

It's fine for YOU to consider game making to be a hobby, but don't expect everyone else to share your opinion, and don't judge them if they don't. Game making as a career has allowed me to earn a living from something I enjoy doing, and to take care of my family in ways that would be completely impossible with a "real" job. I wouldn't give it up for the world.

 

[Helladen]

I was just saying it is much easier using premade engines, and it isn't as time consuming to make games. There are many people who make their own engine, because to be frank honest RPG Maker has many fundamental problems, but it is still a great engine for beginners

You need to look at it this way, can an artist just make one piece of art and start making art to sell? You need to practice for awhile before you can make money from it, but seeing all the games you've made you have put in the time and effort to finish games, and you are one of the few people who are excluded from what I'm saying.

 

[Necromus]

What kind of fundamental problems does (currently ACE) RPG Maker have, when wanting to create a 2D styled game?

With RGSS3 backup there isn't much of limit to what you can do imo.

 

[Helladen]

RTP is the major fundamental issue, because it can't run without it. It shouldn't need to install 200 MB if the developer doesn't use any of the assets contained in the RTP. Instead it should only use the ones the project uses. There are so many issues, but it isn't worth debating over them.

 

[Gomi Boy]

... Except that it's stupidly simple to make your project independent from the RTP.

As for everything else, good luck enforcing your idea of what a hobby is, I guess.

e: vvv You edit one line in the .ini, it's not even worth writing a full reply about.

 

[Helladen]

Do you mean via scripting? I actually didn't think it was possible to script around that.

 

[Shaz]

No, you don't even need to touch scripts to do this. There are a couple of threads around that discuss it. You change the ini file, make sure the resources you DO want to use have been exported into your project, then compress your game without the RTP.

 

[Indinera]

I was just saying it is much easier using premade engines, and it isn't as time consuming to make games.

While it may be easier/faster to use RPG Maker, it is also more difficulter/takes longer to make a RPG compared to other games. So in the end, what you gain there, you lose here.

I doubt many (or any) of them waited until they'd finished 10 games before going commercial.

10 games when most people never finish any :huh:

 

[Helladen]

Both I agree with, but you don't want to release garbage quality products, and it takes about 10 games before you will be pretty good.

 

[Indinera]

and it takes about 10 games before you will be pretty good.

:huh:

You do realize only a few individuals on the planet I've made that many games?

 

[Helladen]

The games don't have to be complete or super long. I'm saying that they went through about 10 projects that lasted at least a couple of weeks which the duration of the game wasn't five minutes.

 

[Indinera]

Well following the same logic, making just one game, but completed and long, can also be enough.