RMMV Companions & Mean Dialogue Consequences

[katharine]

My current project is heavily inspired by Baldur's Gate 1 & 2 in the sense that companions are very dynamic. They can form relationships with one another, and have a lot to say about the player's actions and method of play. One thing I found particularly interesting was how certain companions will up and leave the party if they're pushed far enough. For example:

Spoiler: baldur's gate 2 spoilers

One particularly noble companion named Minsc will leave if the player takes up a certain assassination mission, and in fact will turn on them entirely. Another named Hexxat will leave if the player racks up too many fame points, because it puts her in an unnecessary limelight. A third, whose name is escaping me at the moment, will leave if the player takes too long to complete the mission they promised to help them with.

This added a layer of depth that always intrigued me, and was one of the features I wanted from the very beginning. But even with 2 companions that will possibly leave, that means I have to ensure every single line they speak is only spoken when they're present in the party, and that there are alternative dialogue branches in case they aren't. In other words, it's a lot of work for a niche outcome that requires the player to be particularly nasty to no real benefit.

Mainly, I was just curious as to whether or not there are players who like to indulge in mean dialogue options to their immediate party members. Not just once or twice, but chronically. I'd also like to know why, so I can take these reasons into account if I do end up painstakingly designing that route after all. Any thoughts on the whole mean/evil route mechanic would be interesting to hear as well!

 

[gstv87]

Mount & Blade does something similar, with NPCs that can be noblemen looking down on commoners or thieves.
I didn't get to experience much of it, because my party were all men-at-arms, professional soldiers, but I think the only effect of having conflicting opinions in there is that it lowers morale.
morale affects how troops prepare for a fight, and how long they can go without food before deserting.
sometimes, if you harass other nations without a king's permit, those NPCs who come from those nations talk to you like "Hey, this is wrong... you're not like this... they're not enemies" etc etc.
if you push the matter, they turn on you, and eventually leave the party, with the added loss to morale.

now that I see the topic, I might start working on something like that for my game, maybe locking some quests behind a dialogue path that would only unlock if you manage to develop the character.... which can only happen if everyone gets along, so, props to the player if they manage to keep it together.

 

[katharine]

That's actually another reason why I've been really hesitant to keep going with the "severe consequences for nasty actions" route. Most games that I can think of actively punish the player character for being awful unless there's a pragmatic rationale for it, and reward the player for developing relationships/behaving positively toward their comrades. Which makes sense realistically- I mean, what sort of person would applaud you for being nasty to them for no good reason?

At the same time, the perfectionist in me wants the possibility to remain open just in case the player wants to go down that route. But why bother when it produces so much more work, and also makes the game more difficult for the player? I'm kind of just verbally spitballing my thoughts at this point, but I suppose an alternate ending would be interesting if the player manages to finish the game while also alienating their allies. Again, though, that adds a significant workload to the development cycle: having to ensure, as mentioned previously, that all dialogue branches are conditional to whether or not the party member is present, and also balancing the game to ensure that victory is even possible with only two party members. It's tough when you have a certain vision in mind for the game, but realistically, it's such a niche outcome that few people would probably even experience it!

 

[Wavelength]

I can't think of a recent game I've played where members leave your party due to decisions, but I think it does sound pretty cool.

I generally act pretty nice toward everyone in RPGs where I get choices, but if I knew that this were a mechanic and I had a distaste for one of my party members, I'd probably try to goad them to leave. I would honestly find that enjoyable!

Due to the significant extra work that you rightly mentioned, this kind of mechanic works best in games where the party members/followers don't have that much dialogue (perhaps most of the dialogue takes place between the Main Character and various non-joining NPCs all over the world), or have mostly "extraneous" dialogue that can simply be omitted without needing to change anything else in the conversation. Alternatively, you can have more integrated dialogue branching if you have a very short game, or if the only time party members will leave is in the final ~10% of the game.

Finally, note an important pitfall in this cool idea: if a player accidentally does something that causes a party member they like to leave (such as taking on that assassination mission, not knowing it meant that fricking much to the noble companion, or gaining too much notoriety, which happens slowly and passively over time), you are going to reduce their enjoyment of the rest of the game. The more directly you establish the chain of cause-and-effect, and the longer the player is aware of this chain before the point of no return, the more you can avoid this pitfall. Obviously you don't want to be too blunt about it either, because then it becomes more of a gameplay decision than a consequence of your adventure - it's important to keep that balance in mind.

 

[TheOneEyedOne]

One thing I loved about Baldur's gate 2 was the dynamic characters and dialogue between them which is sadly lost in modern games. Most game characters I feel dont have a life or personality outside of the mc or plot.
Companions for example never seem to interact with each other. Dragon Age had elements of this but I feel like it didn't try hard enough.