Could you enjoy an RPG maker project where not all mechanics are automated?

How automated must your gameplay experience be (assuming the game is otherwise enjoyable)?

  • With a clear guide I can enjoy a game experience that requires a lot of manual interaction/resolving

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • If the majority of systems are automated but some require manual completion I can enjoy a game exper

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I need everything other than player actions to be automated.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0

SwiftIllusion

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For example, while in digital board game platforms like Tabletopia and Tabletop Simulator, it is expected that you have to manually follow the games rules and manually move parts around. However RPG Maker games/similarly built games have a larger expectation to see all of the games mechanics automated because that's the precedent they set.
The issue is some board game mechanics aren't able to be made functional here and would require players to manually control areas of the game to follow the rules (for example enemies moving around on the map following specific rules that are 2x2 squares wide visually, moving at half steps via a plugin to target individual events to attack in a pattern).


Because of this I'd greatly appreciate hearing peoples opinions on whether they could enjoy their experience with an RPG Maker game if not all mechanics were automated or if the expectation that systems would be automated could hurt your experience.
 

Bex

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Can you give a better example or explain it different? I dont get what you mean and also dont understand what you exactly mean with automated


in this case specialy.
 
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gstv87

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in every game, everything you have to worry about is your actions, in context, within the rules, and against the opponent (AI, other players, or pre-determined scripted actions)


even solo games like crosswords or sudoku have their basics automated: whomever designed it already laid out their moves in advance, and you have to play around them.


I guess what you're struggling with is the capability to design a good AI.
 

SwiftIllusion

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@BexSorry I was trying to keep it more broad to keep within the rules so I didn't want to make the example too specific when I could only really relate it to my project, but hopefully as a response to clarify this is okay.
In my project I can have most 'mechanics automated', e.g. health will be shown and subtracted on the map when damage is taken or when you select characters, status effects will be added for attacks, movement will be restricted to the distance a character can move, etc.
Those are all things that I believe to be expected from a digital game.
However one part of my design, the enemy movement, which would be expected to be automated too, must instead be made by the player-they must select the enemy and move it because its rules and restrictions for movement/attacking can't be done with any eventing/plugin.
This is because it must be able to:
#1 Move on a half step grid with a plugin (because of the games grid movement and it being a 2x2 wide enemy, having to cover 2 grids by offsetting its center).
#2 The enemy needs to move across the map to a character based on multiple checks (who is has the most 'rage' [a stat that changes during gameplay and who is the closest).
#3 If there is an open location behind a character it must move behind them to attack from the back.
While the above is explained with more context and rules in-game, the point is that it's something that can't be automated in RPG Maker, meaning even though the player is only 'controlling' the characters, they will have to move the enemies manually based on a set of rules, instead of them moving automatically like in Tactics games.
My concern is that because this isn't something not anticipated when presented as a digital game made in RPG Maker, it will stop people from engaging with the game before they see if they can enjoy the whole experience.
Hence the poll above.

@gstv87 Hopefully the above explains things a bit more-it's not really a matter of not being able to design good AI, but rather the 'AI' (rules of enemy movement/attacking) being unable to be reproduced in RPG Maker, requiring players to manually control more of the game than just their own choices/actions.
 

Bex

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This sounds for example like a Game which has no passability settings for the map and the developer expects the player to not move through different tiles which get mentioned in the manual or not to cheat and take short cuts through walls.


If you mean something like this, than No i could not enjoy it, even if it is Final Fantasy7, the Map thing would destroy the Gameplay and the feeling.


In your example it would destroy the Combat feeling i asume (if i read correct and you  are making Tactical on Map Battle System).


Without your specific example i was unable to understand what you are meaning or talking about.


Or my english skills lag and iam just not able to understand it because of that.


Edit: Another Question


Quote:


"I need everything other than player actions to be automated. "


1.


First i thought this means: I want automated stuff.


2.


After a seccond look, it reads like: I dont need automated stuff, other stuff is more important.


Which one is correct? If i dont understand my Choice i cant choose. (Sorry iam cerious and not trying to Troll).


Edit2:


I asume you could be wrong and all that stuff is possible in rpg maker. If you use pluggins that change the grid, than you need to ask a scripter to provide you the needed commands or better pluginns or tutorials.
 
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Saboera

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For what you seem to have in mind, no. The only time that sort of thing should be considered is if you want to have a multiplayer or co-op board game approach where players can get creative and modify the rules.


There are ways to automate everything honestly. It's just a matter of building your own ''infrastructure'' to make it happen. For example, RPG maker uses a very binary approach to collision, either you can move on a tile or you can't, what if you wanted a certain type of unit to travel through mountains but not forest? You can, you just have to build a system to make it happen and you got the tools.
 

trouble time

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I probably wouldn't enjoy it as an RPG Maker game unfortunately, but I have no problems with un-automated mechanics in general. I have come to love TRPGs and Miniature wargaming (to the point I've been working on my own rules), but that's not something I'd come to RPG Maker for especially if this is not meant to be that kind of expirence...though if it was a system for stuff like that I may enjoy it.
 

SwiftIllusion

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@Bex That's my exact concern. With board game platforms people anticipate having to move parts to follow rules, however with this platform people may be more likely to draw comparisons to Tactics games like that instead and expect full automation and perceive having to move enemies as a way to cheat/break the game instead. Thanks a lot for sharing your opinion on this.

"I need everything other than player actions to be automated. " in the context of the question "How automated must your gameplay experience be" does mean your first interpretation. Only player actions are chosen/acted out by you and all other mechanics are automated.


Based on my understanding it is literally impossible. If I commissioned a programmer I might be able to get the movement working, however the rules for how players are targeted would require too much spacial awareness that I don't believe can be achieved with current eventing methods, especially the act of moving to open spaces behind characters.


@orlando Unless you are a talented programmer you don't have unlimited freedom for mechanisms like this, and even with such ability based on what I've observed, what I'm after can't be done-at least without heavily editing the core readability of events/locations/etc and building out a bunch of logic, if that would be enough (because the enemy is 2x2 wide the attacks are chosen based on the angle closest to the target character, etc).
I appreciate your suggestion about starting with a simpler mechanic though that wasn't necessarily my concern-I'd already had its functioning as a board game but wanted to create it in a more rpg-esque digital space like this, but I'm guessing based on your response you'd also rather everything be automated.


@Saboera I guess that seems to be the case regrettably. Thanks for sharing your opinion on this too.
It's not about the overlapping of 2 events but rather the spacial awareness of all characters, facing directions, movement distance of the enemy and its closest of the 2x2 squares to a player, etc. It'd be okay if it were a standard tactics game with more infrastructure and standardized 1x1 wide characters, etc, but that doesn't help my situation.


@trouble time Thanks a lot for sharing the perspective of someone involved more deeply on the board game side. Yeah as I feared within this space it's not something that people can accommodate as well as when it's on a more natural board game platform.


Sincerely thanks for your responses everyone. Even though this leads me to be unable to translate my project into here as I'd hoped I was able to confirm my suspicions on peoples acceptance about this ahead of any time spent creating it within RPG Maker itself and it was nice to hear all of your perspectives, thanks :)!!
 

kaukusaki

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In my project I can have most 'mechanics automated', e.g. health will be shown and subtracted on the map when damage is taken or when you select characters, status effects will be added for attacks, movement will be restricted to the distance a character can move, etc.
Those are all things that I believe to be expected from a digital game.
However one part of my design, the enemy movement, which would be expected to be automated too, must instead be made by the player-they must select the enemy and move it because its rules and restrictions for movement/attacking can't be done with any eventing/plugin.
This is because it must be able to:
#1 Move on a half step grid with a plugin (because of the games grid movement and it being a 2x2 wide enemy, having to cover 2 grids by offsetting its center).
#2 The enemy needs to move across the map to a character based on multiple checks (who is has the most 'rage' [a stat that changes during gameplay and who is the closest).
#3 If there is an open location behind a character it must move behind them to attack from the back.
While the above is explained with more context and rules in-game, the point is that it's something that can't be automated in RPG Maker, meaning even though the player is only 'controlling' the characters, they will have to move the enemies manually based on a set of rules, instead of them moving automatically like in Tactics games.
My concern is that because this isn't something not anticipated when presented as a digital game made in RPG Maker, it will stop people from engaging with the game before they see if they can enjoy the whole experience.
Hence the poll above.

 this can be done either eventing with multiple variables and switches or scripted if you prefer. it'll just take time.


with events, you have 99 pages internal and limit of 5000 switches and variables.
 

Wavelength

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This kind of thing was acceptable in the 1990s, before ubiquitous object-oriented programming and fast processors rendered it unnecessary.  Nowadays all the computing/resolution of actions is handled for you, because that lets the player enjoy the heart and soul of the game instead of worrying about moving the bones.


Don't make this compromise.  Get good at scripting or expert-level eventing, or pay someone to script it for you (commission prices are often surprisingly reasonable).
 

Titanhex

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I would say if you have to make the game automated by the player, you might as well market it as a Multiplayer-Only game where two players control opposite factions. Thus it makes sense that the player controlling the enemies has a reason to control the enemy units.


This has been done before in an RPG Maker game. There was an RM2K/3 game where player one and player two controlled units in a tactics strategy game. It was pretty fun too. I've been searching for it with no luck.
 

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