COVID-19 a.k.a. coronavirus, let's talk about it.

[Tea's Jams]

This is food for thought

How U.S. Cities Tried to Halt the Spread of the 1918 Spanish Flu

How U.S. city officials responded to the Spanish flu played a critical role in how many residents lived—and died.

www.history.com

 

[Failivrin]

I live in Thailand. The situation here is mostly one of public panic. We've had very few cases, all concentrated in touristy areas. People are nevertheless wearing masks, cancelling events, and staying indoors even in unaffeted areas. For example, there is no corona in my province, but university seniors cancelled their graduation parties. People are considering cancelling Songkran (from a Western perspective, that's like cancelling Christmas). They might lock down Bangkok. In the Philippines, Manila was locked down after only 100 cases.

My parents send news from the US. Schools, offices, restaurants, churches, sports... everything cancelled across the board. Hate crimes against Chinese people. Plummeting stocks and stores stripped of their stock. And this is only the beginning...

None of this seems like a productive response to a manageable threat. Thanks to @Matseb2611 for noting how the statistics can be inflated. Corona hasnt been around long enough to generate any reliable averages. Its unfair to compare these avergaes-in-the-works with solid historical averages like what we have for the flu. And even there averages are not strictly fair. The flu has good and bad seasons. In this season (a good season) flu has already killed 20,000 Americans, but because its a good season people talk about how corona spreads faster. During a bad season (like 2017-18) the flu easily kills a quarter million globally in three months. Corona has been circulating almost three months but it's nowhere near those figures. Very likely our assessment of the threat is exaggerated, and the public response is wildly exaggerated.

The problem is not that we aren't equipped to handle viruses. We aren't equipped to handle fear. I made a video imagining what the world would be like if we handled fear the same way we handled a pandemic. Hope this helps some people.

 

[Larry Jones]

@Failivrin interesting video with some nice perspectives, thanks for sharing it!

fearful feeling is created by fearful thinking. In the moments people are believing fearful thinking they are experiencing fear and in the moments that they’re not, they are not.

the stuff about not going on vacation to an area that has a lot of fearful people about - this presupposes that fear comes from the environment. It does not (see above).

having said that, mirror neurons are also a thing and we are influenced by our external environment. However only influenced, and there is always the gap between stimulus and response which means that in any situation we can be free of fear and have an absence of believed fearful thinking.

Pathologizing fear is probably not useful as fear is a normal human emotion,not an illness. There is nothing wrong with somebody who is experiencing fear and it isn’t serious or a“big deal” if they are. And a “fear of fear” is unnecessary (fear of fear is just more fear!)

...and having said that, you could argue believed unnecessary fearful thinking about coronavirus is a“disease” in that it is ”insane”, feels bad and is out of line with the kind of experience we have when we just witness events with a quieter mind. But this is a playful use of language.

I’m not sure how much sense that’ll make, but there’s my thoughts anyway!

 

[_Shadow_]

Okay since my job demanded my presence for a lot of time I could not watch this thread of mine enough. I want to thank all moderators and global moderators that kept it alive and as civilized as possible.​

I will be blunt here, so keep in mind that this is a personal message and not a moderator stance. So no blue will be used and I write this as a user and OP, and NOT as a moderator.​

I don't care if someone believes that everything is politics. What if my beliefs are different? Shall we start a drama queen battle or something here derailing the thread? I don't think so.​

I don't care what anyone's philosophy of life, politics or society is and I DON'T care discussing it HERE.​

I would be happy to discuss politics. I love philosophy, sociology and stuff and I would love a good conversation and idea sharing on these topics. JUST NOT ON THIS FORUM!​

Please, take a breathe. Relax. Think one thing. This is an official forum for a series of engines making RPG games. Think of it. No, I mean it. Take a breath people and think of it. Why the hell would anyone like to talk about that kind of political sh1t HERE? I mean there are forums special for these topics, all you got to do is google search for them. On off topic we are talking about other things than RPG Maker, but always following the forum rules. Don't be confused, rules apply everywhere in this forum. And there are rules for very good reasons.​

I didn't made this thread so anyone can jump in to cause drama and I personally will not tolerate any more derailing. Read what this thread is all about and understand what this thread is NOT about. Then you post if you got something to say. It the situation wasn't that bad and the need for such a thread wasn't that big, I would had personally already had it closed. But I believe it should stay open so everyone can have a place to speak about it and share news and experiences.​

THAT said I got an announcement to say and people PLEEEEEASE, stay off religious and political stuff. What I am about to state is just news.
Religion related rituals of all kind and any religion are now halted in Greece to protect the spreading of COVID-19. Almost all businesses are closed, with a few exceptions like pharmacies, super markets and stuff. In my 39 years of life this is the first time that something like that happens. Our government takes this thing very seriously, sad thing to say is that Greek people don't take it as seriously as they shoud. :/


@Failivrin dude, I get it. I don't fear it either. But there is a blurred line between a fearless person and a person without a conscience. We shall be responsible these days, not rebellious versus people that sell hysteria. It is good thing NOT to fear COVID-19 to a degree that will cause you hysteria. Being fearless though, makes us stupid. Reasonable fear is a survival mechanism, it is natural. Imagining a World without fear can cause an argument of political nature. I will not delete your video, but people this thing must end here.

Stay home, stay safe people. Hygiene is the key.
And don't panic.
Meanwhile I do lessons using Facebook video calls LOL. It is... different, hard, awkward. But safe!

 

[TheoAllen]

I guess I'm just gonna use this as a "status update" in my situation instead of using an actual status update. So here's what is happening around here.

• School shuts around my city for a whole two weeks, possibly longer
• The official announces that this high alert may even last until May. Which kinda sucks, because May will be the one of the busiest month considering Eid Mubarak.
• My office building management also on high alert. Body temperature checks, hand sanitizer almost everywhere, cleaning the most used place for every 2 hours.
• They also started to give us some vitamins and a hand sanitizer for free.
• Started from tomorrow, most of us gonna work from home until April. Although I require myself on the site, so no work from home for me I guess.

 

[_Shadow_]

@TheoAllen thanks for the update mate!
Sounds like good first measures.

 

[callmedan]

I’m from Vietnam. IMHO, the government is handling the situation really good. We get instructions from the ministry of health every day via SMS. Everyone in quarantine and patients get free food and free treatment, until last week or two weeks ago they said foreigners will need to pay any hospital bills if they are infected.
There was a panic in about 2 days when we got case #17 because it was the latest case after 3 weeks without any new case. Things get back to normal after that.
School has been closed since after the lunar new year holiday except for medical schools. All the crowd gathering events/places are canceled/closed.
People are also asked to wear masks when going out since yesterday (March 16).

Here’s an insight from a British man currently in quarantine here if you’re interested: https://southeastasiaglobe.com/coronavirus-life-inside-a-vietnamese-government-quarantine/

 

[LyonBuster]

Spain here
Third day being with my family cloistered
And i can't go to see my girlfriend
Police have fine many people

 

[_Shadow_]

Spain here
Third day being with my family cloistered
And i can't go to see my girlfriend
Police have fine many people

I know it sucks but you have to endure this, both of you and your relationship will get stronger that way. Think positive.

 

[LyonBuster]

I know it sucks but you have to endure this, both of you and your relationship will get stronger that way. Think positive.

Thank you @Dreadshadow !!!

Well, i hope this doesn't last weeks nor months.
And i hope everyone of you people doesn't get symptons.!!
HAPPY RPG MAKING!!

 

[Mrs_Allykat]

I am greatly concerned about this outbreak. I have a three day old grand-daughter and my parents are both nearly 90. I'm allowed to be fearful. On the other hand, the fear about the pandemic can create other dangers due to a panic.

As far as global politics are concerned, it is my understanding that the country that has thus far best managed the situation is Taiwan. They recognized the potential threat really early, as in December, and acted really quickly. Considering how close they are to China (the epicenter, not the people) and how much travel between the two countries there is - they did something right.

Anyway, I hope everyone stays safe!

 

[Punamaagi]

There were a lot of interesting experiences and thoughts in this thread, so I thought I'd share my own.

I travelled to Iceland last Thursday on a holiday and came back to Finland yesterday (on Monday). When I left, both countries had around 40 confirmed cases, and I was optimistic (or naïve) enough to believe that the worst case scenario wouldn't happen here far in the north. I packed a small bottle of hand sanitizer with me and figured that using common sense would be enough.

I got to enjoy my holiday for the most part. Icelanders were pretty calm regarding the situation, and the existence of COVID-19 mostly showed as hand sanitizers being available in all tour buses, shops etc. and museums advising people to keep two metres away from each other. On Monday, my original direct flight got cancelled and I had to fly via Frankfurt instead, but I didn't have to pay extra and in the end I got home with little hassle.

Today, all the schools, museums and so forth in Finland (and AFAIK also in Iceland) are closed, and our government is preparing to close off the borders. I can't help but feel that I got lucky. If I had stayed any longer in Iceland, I might have got stuck there - or possibly in some other country.

I admit that I feel (or at least felt at one point) a bit guilty and wondered if I should have just cancelled my trip. That would have meant losing hundreds of euros and having to wait at least a few years before another chance (due to the costs and my low income), so in the end, I don't regret going. If I had planned going a week or even just a few days later than I did, I would have cancelled, though. It feels like I had the second best timing possible (with the best timing being a situation where the virus wasn't an issue at all).

Now I'm going to remain in quarantine for 14 days like the government has advised. I have plenty of food and work from home, so it should go just fine. I just hope that the situation normalizes soon enough, for the sake of the economy and the people - both those affected by the virus and those who are in trouble due to the issues in food deliveries etc.

 

[bgillisp]

Our state just shut down all restaurants and bars at noon today. Carry out and delivery only.

 

[LyonBuster]

Our state just shut down all restaurants and bars at noon today. Carry out and delivery only.

Welcome to the club!

 

[Kupotepo]

@TheoAllen, where do you live? Indonesia? In order for the message to be useful so people can fear correctly. Well, I think it is fine tell what coronavirus affects you. At least, it is the truth without exaggerating and downplaying.
@Dreadshadow, I tried to politely inform some people to being angry the coronavirus is already stressful with the logic arguement of course.
But depending on them listening to me or not.
@bgillisp, I live in the USA too. Do you think Amazon or Grouphub going to be a new normal?

 

[Touchfuzzy]

My wife and I are both pretty sick. It's not bad enough that they'll test us (I've been sick since PAX East), so we have no idea if we have it or not. Basically we're just home and isolated and my parents have been dropping off groceries for us at the door.

In the US unless you are sick enough to be hospitalized, more than likely you won't be tested, as emergency rooms have the only testing capabilities.

It's been a wild couple of weeks. I'm lucky in that I work from home anyway (though being sick it's been hard to get a lot done.). Everyone stay safe out there.

 

[Finnuval]

@Touchfuzzy take it easy, take care and get well too both you and your wife.

 

[_Shadow_]

Get well @Touchfuzzy soon!

 

[CrowStorm]

Tangential response to @Kupotepo

Spoiler

When you said "evil capitalism", who do you get mad with? Who should be punished for this idea of evil capitalism? Do you punish an idea and the idea in jail? Or do you suggest people in jail for wrongdoing? It is just a philosophical debate. I agree with your general sentiment.

Personally? I am angry at rich people.

Rich people need to be punished. By rich, let me be clear that if you are reading this, I don't mean you or anyone you've ever met. (This the point where like Jeff Bezos and Warren Buffet pop in to tell me they've been using RPG Maker since 1995 lolol.)

I mean the wealthiest 1% of the wealthiest 1% of the population who control approximately 50% of the total wealth while paying about 0% of the total taxes due to loopholes. And frankly, not even all of them, just the 9/10 of the wealthiest 0.01% that are bad actors. Specifically, the wealthiest shareholders of corporations from Wells Fargo to Walmart to Office Depot.

Personally, I am more in favor of administering this punishment vis redistribution of wealth to the needy via AK-47, (Comrade!) but in the case of profiteers of prisons, I like the idea of putting them in their own hellish for-profit prisons.

There's no need for the idea of capitalism to go to jail: it will wither and die when those who have profited from it and used it to exploit others have been punished.

Punished: The wealthiest 0.01% (Capitalism's beneficiaries)
Not Punished: Literally everyone else (Capitalism's victims, to varying degrees.)

Another example is there is the acid rain occurs near my house. Do I blame the idea of climate? Or Do I find the source of problems such as too much of the coals is burning near my house and send the report to the local government? Hopefully, they do something about it.

Well in this case, it's very likely that someone in your local government is being bribed by coal companies and/or their lobbyists resulting in waste from coal mining operations polluting your local water table resulting in acid rain. The people giving the bribes and the people taking them are the problem. As to whether solving that problem can be done within the system or requires extrajudicial direct action depends on the country you live in.

I hope it would be a little better wording then the last post.

It certainly was. : )

Anyway: the world is very scary. I live in the central US. Most nearly everything is cancelled. The wealthiest and most well off people are being paid to stay home and "flatten the curve". Nearly every sector has been effected by the enormous cancellations of everything so a huge variety of people have lost hours. For instance, I work with kids, and all of the county's schools have closed, so I lost a ton of hours that way. The poorest people with the worst jobs are the only ones actually still working because they're being given no choice. This includes one of my best friends that works at a big box store and my mother back east who is a clerical worker at a big medical conglomerate.

Personally? I am just so, so sick of getting these e-mails from EVERY SINGLE BUSINESS I HAVE EVER BOUGHT ANYTHING FROM and EVERY SINGLE ORGANIZATION I HAVE EVER INTERACTED WITH filling my inbox with their spam talking about how SERIOUSLY they're taking Corona and what MEASURES they're taking. It's like seriously, Comcast, like, unless it's possible to catch COVID-19 over the internet now, STFU and leave me alone. I think I've heard from at least 24 different companies or NGOs in the last 72 hours, from a dispensary I once bought pot at, once, telling me they're staying open to serve their customer base to the rescue org where I adopted my cat from. It's preposterous.

It's likely that I'll get Corona because as someone who's massively immunocompromised I'm in the most-at-risk segment of the population and as a filthy poor the only way I get around is by public transit i.e. bus. I really really hope not, but it's likely. I'm also reasonably young so it's very possible I'll survive if I do get it.

How is everyone situated for toilet paper? I have four rolls so I am really hoping that will last until the worst of the blind idiot panic has calmed down.

 

[Larry Jones]

UK is now making its way into “lockdown” mode this week, so it seems. Schools are still open here and people are still working but the advice is to work at home if possible, avoid pubs and clubs, self isolate if you or somebody in your household has symptoms etc.

Unusual stuff huh?