Creating a game... for yourself.

[_Leviathan]

Tens and tens of hours -- no, maybe even hundreds of hours go into playtesting your game. A developer knows the game inside out. You know how the story will go, you know how to effectively level up your character, you know all the secrets and tricks in the book, and you know how your enemies behave and how to counter them, as for they are almost like your children.
Game developers are actually somewhat tragic, if you think about it. We work hard and pour our souls into games, just so even a few people may find enjoyment out of them, but we're unable to create that enjoyment for ourselves.

This had me thinking for a moment, and I ask you too to think about it.
How does one make a game he himself can enjoy, and be surprised by?

The easiest solution: Variables. Lots, and lots of variables with a randomly generated number. The game, perhaps, could not have a story. A rogue-like game? Then perhaps you would have to make the game focus on battles. But then, a developer already knows the possible outcomes. Why not make everything randomly generated? RPG Maker can only go so far.

Is it all in vain? Will we have to rely on others to make enjoyable games for us, acknowledging the fact that we can not create something we do not know inside out?

This may be a silly question, but I propose to you an idea. How would you go about making it work in a way you yourself may take it to the bathroom to accompany you during the most private time of your life? Do you think it's even possible?

(My apologies to any moderator who is inconvenienced by this post. This is my first post, so I'm worried I might not be posting in the correct place, but I do not use that as an excuse for my actions.)

 

[mlogan]

@_Leviathan I think this is the right place, however, another mod might feel it goes best elsewhere and move it later on.

 

[DarkHyudrA]

If you are creating a game that even you cant enjoy, why the heck you are even creating it?

How you are supposed to expect other people to enjoy something that you as a creator cant enjoy? Always make sure to make a game you would enjoy playing, #1 rule really. Randomness like rogue-like is not necessary to make it worth your own time to play it.

 

[TheoAllen]

I'd tell you that the game I made in 2014, I still enjoy playing it. For nostalgia purpose mainly. Heck I even think if it's like someone's game because I have no idea how I completed that game.

I don't know about the other devs. But if you're not making game that you can enjoy yourself, you did it wrong (unless maybe you're making a puzzle like games? I dont make puzzle games so idk).

Randomness is cool I'd say, I even think about it myself. But not all dev can make all random. And even with that I believe even some dev that has all the knowledge about their own game would still enjoy replaying it. I mean, if they don't enjoy it. How could the advertise to other people?

 

[Countyoungblood]

Tens and tens of hours -- no, maybe even hundreds of hours go into playtesting your game. A developer knows the game inside out. You know how the story will go, you know how to effectively level up your character, you know all the secrets and tricks in the book, and you know how your enemies behave and how to counter them, as for they are almost like your children.
Game developers are actually somewhat tragic, if you think about it. We work hard and pour our souls into games, just so even a few people may find enjoyment out of them, but we're unable to create that enjoyment for ourselves.

This had me thinking for a moment, and I ask you too to think about it.
How does one make a game he himself can enjoy, and be surprised by?

The easiest solution: Variables. Lots, and lots of variables with a randomly generated number. The game, perhaps, could not have a story. A rogue-like game? Then perhaps you would have to make the game focus on battles. But then, a developer already knows the possible outcomes. Why not make everything randomly generated? RPG Maker can only go so far.

Is it all in vain? Will we have to rely on others to make enjoyable games for us, acknowledging the fact that we can not create something we do not know inside out?

This may be a silly question, but I propose to you an idea. How would you go about making it work in a way you yourself may take it to the bathroom to accompany you during the most private time of your life? Do you think it's even possible?

(My apologies to any moderator who is inconvenienced by this post. This is my first post, so I'm worried I might not be posting in the correct place, but I do not use that as an excuse for my actions.)

it is entirely possible to create a game with challenges that can be solved in more than one way by making more than one path viable. you dont need to make rpg maker into a rogue generator to be able to enjoy your own game you just need to create multiple options so you have more choices to make and more outcomes you haven't seen. for example allowing characters to take on different classes creates a whole bunch of team combinations and their interactions between one another can be both fun to make and fun to experiment with. (such as final fantasy 1 )

it would be more work and more development time but if you dont enjoy the work of setting up a game you might look for a different hobby. I would not waste so many hours of my time on something i didn't enjoy or expect to profit from.

 

[Milennin]

That is basically what I did with my 'RTP'. I randomised a bunch of things to make each run feel at least a little different, as well as making it just difficult enough that it can't be played completely brainlessly. It's devoid of any kind of dialogue or lengthy cutscenes, focusing purely on gameplay.
And it worked out surprisingly well. I've got the game on my tablet, and play it from time to time when I'm in the bus, or at work when there's nothing to do. A full play-through is only ~15 minutes long, so doing a quick game during those moments works out perfectly.

For my next game, even though there'll be more of a story and all, I'll be providing an option to basically skip everything story-related and auto-randomise stuff that otherwise get presented as choices should one choose to play the story version, so I can easily enjoy multiple and regular playthroughs of it.

I do like playing my older games as well, but they're much more dialogue-focused and lengthy, not to mention unable to be brought to tablet for various reasons. They're fun to play through again, maybe once every 1-2 years, but certainly aren't the type of games you'd replay regularly.

 

[Rocky_]

I have to say, even if I spent 100h creating a game (and thats not even a lot of time for a thing like this I think), if in the end there is only 1 person who enjoys it, it was worth the time for me.

I do not have to play it myself and have fun with it - I already had tons of fun hours (and frustrating ones!) while creating it.
It´s something I created and I will be proud of it and I probably learnt a lot while making it. When I want to feel entertained I just play a game from another creator

Nice topic btw, was really interesting thinking about this

 

[Fernyfer775]

To be quite honest, I actually really enjoy playing my own game. After test-playing through it, from start to finish, about 500+ times, the story parts has come down to me just spamming enter to skip it all, but I honestly really enjoy the loot and battle system I came up with.

I find myself actually being very entertained with just fighting the bosses in my game, messing around with the different builds I've created through my skill-learn system, and decking out the characters in the literal hundreds of different armor combinations to see what sort of monstrosity I can come up with.

I think you hit the nail on the head in regards to the "Random" part. My battle/loot system wouldn't be the same without the random factor. In my game, you will NEVER (or at least, almost never) get two pieces of gear that are exactly the same, creating a pretty great variability in the way your characters end up geared throughout a play through.

I think with the right formula, you can actually create something that YOU as the developer can truly enjoy, even if you more-or-less know what's going to happen in your game.

 

[AmazingKazuki]

Like some have already said, you should make a game that you would enjoy playing. For many reasons, but one is motivation. If you don't like your game then chances are it won't ever truly be 'finished' and be put out there. If you do fight through it and publish it, you might just sit there and regret it.

If you need help to find a way to do things randomly, like Milennin said they did with their game, that is doable too. Maybe those random chances, random paths, random loot could make it better for you. My first game is too short, and I don't go back and play it because it is a year old and wasn't the biggest project to maintain. However, I liked making it and playing it while it was being created.

 

[D.ray]

I believe there might be some confusion going on here. I think better a clarification on the premise of the supposition is required first in order to give a better answer.

From what I understand, The OP, is claiming that one can't enjoy a game you create because you already have the knowledge and know-how on how to win the game, or the best way to approach it for favorable results. And so they're asking for any advice on how to approach that matter. Not that they want to go about creating a game they don't enjoy.

On to the main premise. I would argue two things. The first being that just because you know how to best play the game as the creator, doesn't mean you won't enjoy the experience. The second being that are many faucets to enjoy from a game as the creator, other than playing it. The obvious one that comes to mind is a sense of accomplishment from actually completing a game, and materializing those creative ideas into an actual product for others to enjoy. Honestly this is one of the greatest pleasures as a creator in any art.

Being able to experience all the moving parts of game, from the writing, art, music, coding and the thought process behind each decision is another great pleasure you can get as a creator playing your own game. Then of course the actual process of creating the game in the first place is another joy.

I would also argue that surprises during gameplay, or random generations, don't necessarily translate to a pleasurable experience. I'll take a well done game with a linear story/gameplay over a bad game with a myriad of branching routes or randomly generated whatever.

 

[bgillisp]

I'll take a well done game with a linear story/gameplay over a bad game with a myriad of branching routes or randomly generated whatever.

That sums it up well. I remember one year when I had played a bunch of games that turned out to be bad, then I decided to check out a visual novel that was free to play on Steam. It had no choices, but for the next 5 hours I laughed like mad as the game was silly and fun, and honestly, much better than any non-linear game I had played in the last 6 months.

 

[Tai_MT]

Personally, I'm creating a game for myself. No, not the characters. No, not the combat. No, not the everything.

See, what a developer of a game gets out of the game is the player's enjoyment of said game.

Okay, that's kind of vague, let me explain a little.

My game isn't to tell everyone else my stories. My game is for players to tell me their stories. For me, that's the fun in a game. The stories that players get out of them. The connections that they can possibly make to the game itself. I may be able to plan for all the most efficient ways to play my game, but will other players? What will stories of their playthroughs be like? How would they solve combat challenges? Differently than I did during the design phase? Or the testing phase? What about the choices in the story? What would their lines of reasoning be for making the choices they do? The list just goes on and on. While I couldn't surprise myself as a dev... It's the players who can surprise me. That's what I'm aiming for. I think that's what all devs should be aiming for.

See, the only way to truly design a game "for yourself" is simply to make it so good that it becomes popular... and then other people mimic your game. You can play their versions of the game you designed that you wanted to play.

Make a game you want to play. Then, if it's really good, other people will mimic what you've done and create those games you wanted to play. But, until then, take your surprises and enjoyment of creating that game from how it makes your players react. It's an entirely different experience to watch someone playtest your game and trying to keep your mouth shut the whole time. Watching them learn things for the first time, things you know by heart, things you think are easy. It's amazing to watch someone approach your game differently than you do. What they do can surprise you.

That's how you "design a game for yourself". By giving it to the players and seeing what they do with it. Watching them experience it for the first time.

 

[Countyoungblood]

If we're looking directly at only the question being posed a lot of these answers don't actually answer the question..

How does one make a game he himself can enjoy, and be surprised by?

Op clarified that knowing the story before hand does not work for op.
so creating a game with a linear storyline does not answer the question it just ignores part of the information.

enjoying the process of making the game as has been said multiple times by multiple people (sometimes multiple times)
but it is not a real answer to how to make a game that can be enjoyed. we are looking at detailing the process of creating an enjoyable product not pointing out how enjoyable the process is.

to contribute to answering the actual question and not just making comments about the question i will expand on my own answer.

what you're looking to create is what people call replay value. that is playing the game again and still enjoying it because there are still more things to do or more ways to do them. specifically since you will know every intimate detail of your game you will need to focus entirely on the options side of things.

examples...

instead of characters having x skills that he learns as he levels up create skill shops so that you can purchase skills. create restrictions that force you to decide between different options.. sword smack requires a sword and its good for smacking but hammer bash is great against the glass monkeys..

create skills that have synergy with other skills. look into magic the gathering for good examples the entire game is built around the idea of synergy between the different mechanical building blocks and that translates into rpgs pretty easily.

instead of characters having armor upgrades create gear with totally different stats or benefits. experiment with combinations..

games can be made enjoyable but you have to give them complex enough parts that it becomes interesting to see how those parts can fit together you might for example know every piece in chess and what the entire board looks like yet the game can be enjoyed even alone by creating puzzles to solve.

as a side note to making games enjoyable.. try to limit the number of potions and gold so that you actually need to think before using them. at its very core the only fun thing left about a game you already know the storyline of is making decisions.