Creating Perspective by Rotating the Map or Camera

[Robert-Character Creator]

Hello! I was curious on what people would think of this mechanic, seeing as it's not used in RPG games often. An example of this feature is in the TRPG Final Fantasy Tactics (The only RPG with this feature that I know of, actually), where you can rotate the camera around the map to get a better idea of elevation and the location of enemies and items.

The best use of this in a non-combat oriented game would probably be to add more detail to environments. As it stands, nearly everything in a room must either be against the back wall, or in the middle of the room. Using the other walls is impractical, as the player can only see the side of the object in question.

What do all of you think of this? How could you see it being used?

 

[Kes]

Unless you are using 3d objects, I can imagine this looking very odd. For example, a sideways cupboard - how do you manage the transition from viewing the side to viewing the front? Unless it is instantaneous (which has its own problems) there will be a period of time when the graphic needs to be changing smoothly.

I don't agree with your claim that using the side walls (or the bottom wall for that matter) is not practical. I use them all the time, including having items to loot, or dialogue sequences on them, and players have never seemed to be confused by this. But perhaps you mean something else?

 

[Robert-Character Creator]

What you're saying about the sideways cupboard is what I was referring to. If you place a cupboard on the side or bottom walls, players cannot readily identify what it is. You'd have to create a version of the furniture for each side though, so rotations could function, now that I think about it.
The tile data would also be a pain, meaning that the cleanest way to do this would probably be with parallax mapping, and perhaps some kind of custom collision.

The transition shouldn't be a problem though; you could just flash the screen during a rotation.

 

[Kes]

Again I beg to differ, the cupboards, desks, chairs, beds, treasure chests etc. that I use are easily identifiable. I think it is just a question of using the right assets.

However, back to your 2 suggestions.
Parallax mapping is out if you want to deploy to mobile - the file size is just too bloated. But presumably you would need more than one parallax per 'map' to account for the different views? i.e. one for normal view, one for rotation to the left, one for rotation to the right and (possibly) one for rotation down. File bloat has just gone through the roof. And the work load has increased exponentially.
Flash instead - may be tricky for migraine/epilepsy/seizure for any other reason. But if you're going to do that i.e. create an instantaneous switch from one view to another, then how are you better off than doing a 'concealed' transfer to another map? I assume that it will be so that events that you have already interacted with are in the correct place, or on the correct page, but I thought it best to check.

 

[Robert-Character Creator]

That is correct. Aside from that, using one map avoids the nightmare of moving to other maps while rotated; you can simply check for the rotation level at the door, and rotate the other map during transfer. And, you made several very good points. I hadn't considered what quadruple the resources would do to the file size. I am admittedly doing this in my project, so I can say the work load has been terrific.

You do need to make four versions of each map, but they're surprisingly easy once you have the first version finished. The floor layer can be rotated immediately- there's almost no issue in rotating those. However, the wall layers must be done individually, and customized to each rotation. This takes some time (A blank version can be created in ~15 minutes), but is still massively easier after the first version (5-10 minutes), as you can copy/paste sections. The furniture layer is the most difficult, as everything must be completely redone each time, with chances to copy/paste being more scarce.

I slowly flash to a dark blueish-black color, to avoid any epilepsy issues, but you could also fade out to black, or grey, or any neutral color, really.

 

[cabfe]

But wouldn't coordinates be changed as well when you turn a map?
A specific point (let's say, 15,1) wouldn't stay in the top right corner. Which means that Move route would be completely messed up, since walking Left would need to become Up or Down depending on the rotation. And using fixed coordinates wouldn't work either, as the 15,1 point becomes a 15,11 or a 1,1 point.

 

[Robert-Character Creator]

That's also a good point, another I hadn't thought of. I've been considering forcing the map to a certain perspective during cutscenes for this reason, but that won't help for coordinate based events. You'd have to have either four copies of the event, which is no better than four maps, or use commands like 'Move Toward Player', that would work in any case.

For transfer events, and others using coordinates, you might be able to use a conditional branch to check what way the map is rotated, and use a different location based on that. The only major downside would be having to figure out the new locations; one wrong number and you have a bug.

Edit: I just remembered you can use a script call to rotate the map data in-game (had one made for me a few weeks ago), so you can rotate coordinate data, including terrain tags on tiles, region data, and passibility.

 

[Wavelength]

I personally don't think the juice is worth the squeeze if you're working in a 2D engine like RPG Maker. Yes, it could be a nice feature, but the amount of effort (not to mention other things that have been mentioned like file size & additional sprites) required to make this work could be better spent elsewhere in nearly any game you'd create.

Additional benefits to a single viewpoint are that the player is less likely become disoriented, and the ability of the designer to control the way that the player sees their map (making it the most aesthetically beautiful for the single front-facing top-down view that the player gets).

Some of my dream games do involve being able to literally "look around" at your surroundings to appreciate them, but I think this kind of thing works far better in a true 3D game where the player has nearly full control of the camera, rather than a 2D game that happens to offer four different directional viewpoints.

 

[Robert-Character Creator]

Additional benefits to a single viewpoint are that the player is less likely become disoriented, and the ability of the designer to control the way that the player sees their map (making it the most aesthetically beautiful for the single front-facing top-down view that the player gets).

Ah, see, I originally thought of this concept when trying to "rebuild" a 3D location in RPG Maker. It was nearly impossible to make work right; as you said, RPG Maker is not very applicable for this kind of usage. I found this to be the easiest solution. It's been interesting to see what people think of this, though. It makes me wonder if any future Makers will have a solution, too.

 

[Kes]

It makes me wonder if any future Makers will have a solution, too.

See this thread.

 

[alberthk]

graphics wise, too much time, you have to create as many version of a single object to as many perspective you decided to make.

it is easier to use a 3d object on a 3d game design platform.

 

[HumanNinjaToo]

Unless your dealing with a 3D environment, I don't see how changing camera perspective adds anything.

 

[Robert-Character Creator]

If you can rotate the map, it creates a kind of 3D environment, in a way. It would allow you to see different walls face on, which opens up new options for designing maps. Merry Christmas!