[CRITICAL PRIORITY ISSUE] RPG MAKER MZ is anti-multimonitor and hates your multi-screen build, here's why.

[Killuki Zaoldyeck]

TL;DR: RPG Maker MZ crashes everytime any of its windows are opened on a secondary monitor which isn't set as the main one, happens since MV five years ago, please fix it, request us as much data as you need to kill the issue, thanks

From my own experience, the requisite is any integrated graphics build with a secondary dedicated nvidia card (laptop or desktop), it happens both standalone and steam version. Made some users think it was an issue with their OS and deleted everything.Again please fix it it's been five years. Thanks.

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Hey there, sorry in advance due the title of the thread, it's meant to catch your attention to make you try recreate this issue and fix it ASAP since it existed also on MV and has passed FIVE YEARS, then the issue is also ported on the new MZ.

The issue affects specifically with multiple screen setups, mainly, as far I could test, with NVIDIA + integrated cards, ( @Touchfuzzy tested it and there weren't any issues by his side), such as nvidia laptops (like mine) (most laptops has shared cards now, sadly) or AMD based desktop with integrated cards on the cpu chipset with a dedicated nvidia card (happens also with MV, tested on a ryzen 2300x + gtx1080 desktop).

In advance I also tell that I'm using Windows 10 64 bits fully updated on both computers.

What's the issue:
If you try to open ANY RPG MAKER WINDOW ON A MONITOR WHICH ISN'T SET AS THE MAIN ONE ("monitor principal" in spanish), it can be the MAIN RPGMAKER WINDOW (just launch RPG Maker), or even open the Plugin Manager, move it to a secondary/non-main monitor and then open a Parameter Window, the entire RPG Maker program WILL FREEZE/STOP ANSWERING and FORCES YOU TO CLOSE IT, MAKING YOUR UNSAVED CHANGES BE GONE.

This is also a common problem which ended some users think that it was a bug caused by Windows or their drivers, or even Antivirus MAKING THEM FORMAT THE ENTIRE DRIVER AND LOSE THEIR UNSAVED PERSONAL/PROFESSIONAL FILES just by a "STUPID" issue (sorry, insulting the issue itself due leading to us to think that it was caused by bigger issues like the mentioned before), here are recent similar topics:
- https://forums.rpgmakerweb.com/index.php?threads/rpgmv-dont-open-no-error-message.125358/
- https://forums.rpgmakerweb.com/index.php?threads/rmmz-steam-version-wont-open.126996/
- https://forums.rpgmakerweb.com/index.php?threads/solved-rpg-maker-mz-inaccessible.125782/
- I would navigate more, but I can't spare so much time on it, sorry, I remember more topics related to this issue years ago with MV.

Issue affects to both standalone and steam users. @Tea's Jams calls it like the editor tries to open itself to a phantom monitor, which, for my own tests (see "opening parameter window on secondary monitor" above) crashes the entire editor regardless if the monitor exists or not.

And I call it critical because it is, indeed, a CRITICAL problem.

Some of us like me, have two, three or even four screens, as you may know, when we have more than a screen is because we're more proficient working with multiple screens by having each window on each monitor to not lose of sight content that we must always have access while watching another window on another screen, and also to not have to minimize/maximize or close windows we can't minimize like Database/Plugin manager/etc which ARE ALSO LOCKED (total mistake here, rather than lock windows, you should LOCK THE BUTTONS OF THE FUNCTIONS THAT THE USER SHOULDN'T OPEN while editing another section).

Luckly, the only window that don't crash the whole program is the Playtest window, which I bid that doesn't make the program crash mainly because the last position of the PlayTest window isn't recorded, otherwise the program would crash too.

Is really, REALLY important have this issue sorted as soon as possible, and I know that, in order to fix an issue, the developers needs as much reports and accurate data as possible to find the culprit function/driver/software/anything and f**** end its issue whole career by a motherf*** godlike fix as a demonkiler holy water, like a medicine that heals an endless headache, you get what I mean since in my real job I'm a tester of our software and despite me not having programmation knowledge, I have "minimal" knowledge of it, and I know how important is provide all the data possible to kill these f**** annoying challenges that a programmer must face everything costing even the last hair of your head.

So please, people that also read this topic, if you face a problem like this one, please provide as much details as you can to kill this 5-year monster and become the hero of this part of the community that has multiple screens (and your own and everyones legend if you're from this part of the community).

Developers, please give me/us instructions to provide you better data to end this 5-years career bug, I don't know, I guess it was called dxdiag to generate a log with our specs and programs installed, or screenshots, or videos, or anything.
NEVER just assume an issue by watching what your customers tells, assume issues blindly only FEEDS the issue to become more bigger and HIDES the real STUPID culprit of the issue, as technicians, we NEED DETAILS, not vague ideas of what we think the issue is, so we can close his escape way more and more, and hunt it.
"...Maybe is my OS that it's on spanish. Maybe it's the last update of W10 cuz w10 updates always F**** up drivers and everything, maybe is my antivirus that blocks even the calculator thinking it's a new computer COVID"...

...please, stop it, and tell us what to do, request us to draw the face of the serial assassin, not how he looks like Donald Trump due his hairstyle (lol) to not jail thousand innocents.

I added a TLDR because again I wrote too much, I don't know what kind of story will my project have, I think too much!!!

PS: Caps aren't shouting, just to highlight text even more

 

[Hudell]

I couldn't replicate the issue here. Back in MV I noticed a lot of issues with multi monitors like context menus opening on the wrong monitor and things like that, but on MZ I haven't had any issue.

 

[Killuki Zaoldyeck]

I couldn't replicate the issue here. Back in MV I noticed a lot of issues with multi monitors like context menus opening on the wrong monitor and things like that, but on MZ I haven't had any issue.

Thank you Hudell for your report, can you please tell us your build? I guess that knowing the builds of who don't have issues can also help, so by knowing what's different from the persons affected can help too.

It's mainly due, as far I could see by myself, nvidia drivers + integrathed graphics (on my case, it's regardless if the integrathed are AMD or Intel).

Sorry forgot to tell my builds, (my bad!!):

Laptop:
MSI GL63-8SE (Full specs here: https://www.msi.com/Laptop/GL63-8SX/Specification).

Desktop:
Two monitors (one hdmi another DisplayPort).
NVIDIA GTX1080 with last drivers.
16GB DDR4 3000Mhz
Windows 10 64 bits (both computers fully update)

 

[Milennin]

I have no issues with MZ (or MV, for that matter), on my secondary monitor. Not on my old PC, nor on my new one, both Intel + Nvidia graphics card desktops.

 

[Killuki Zaoldyeck]

Sorry I was about to record a video of how I replicate the issue by my end but I don't know what f**** happens in the world that now neither nvidia shadowplay or windows record feature doesn't let me record my desktop, was all them threatened by third party companies arging because them lost sales and sent a threat about sending a sicary to all them or did stupid people that entered their card numbers on a livestream sued them or what? XD

Please let me know how I can record the desktop now without having to pay a software, or what must I enable to record it directly with Windows* (lol I white google?). Even shadowplay lost the option to capture desktop or not this is amazingly stupid ^^U.

Thank you!

 

[inc0der]

I have a desktop build:
Ryzen 2200g - Latest chipset
Radeon RX 570 GPU - Latest drivers
Windows 10 - Insider edition

Everything works fine for me, in fact, it works much better than MV, where context menus would consistently appear on the monitor opposite to where the main program is.

Good luck with figuring out this issue, won't be an easy one.

 

[Touchfuzzy]

The issue affects specifically with multiple screen setups, mainly, as far I could test, with NVIDIA + integrated cards

Nope, because that is what I have, too.

 

[Nekohime1989]

have you tried reinstalling your drivers?

 

[Touchfuzzy]

Just to say, we do know that this is an issue, and it has been reported by multiple people, we're just mystified at what the common root cause is, and are trying to identify it. Because we are having a hard time finding commonality between the builds that are causing it.

 

[Milennin]

Sorry I was about to record a video of how I replicate the issue by my end but I don't know what f**** happens in the world that now neither nvidia shadowplay or windows record feature doesn't let me record my desktop, was all them threatened by third party companies arging because them lost sales and sent a threat about sending a sicary to all them or did stupid people that entered their card numbers on a livestream sued them or what? XD

Not sure why it doesn't. I have no issues recording my desktop with Shadowplay. Maybe try full re-install?

 

[Killuki Zaoldyeck]

have you tried reinstalling your drivers?

It happened on two different computers, drivers were up to date, maybe is the issue, specifically due updating something? We don't know that, maybe it is indeed any windows update, or driver update, but surely this is something related with screens, because the trigger is have multiple monitors build, never happens with single monitor, at least not from my experience, and at least not to someone that didn't installed something additional to the graphics drivers that behave as a multiple monitor software.

Not sure why it doesn't. I have no issues recording my desktop with Shadowplay. Maybe try full re-install?

Tried it already, even deleting the registry entries one-by-one from kadokawa, rpg maker mz, rpg maker mv, even deleting hidden app folder etc, it was fixed by enabling the screen where I had the crashes as the main one, and why continue happening even reinstalling RPG Maker? Answer is simple, because is Windows itself who remembers the last window position of ANY program, not the program itself (feature enabled by default on Windows to optimize user experience by removing them do common tasks, exception to this seems to be, specifically, being the window maximized or not, OR, like MZ PlayTest, specifically place a rule to the program to NOT remember the last window position (that would be the temporal fix, make a rule to MZ and MV which defines itself to ALWAYS open ONLY on the MAIN SCREEN). Please send this tip to developers to temporally force this rule to the program until the real issue is fixed.

EDIT: Oh, sorry, misunderstood you, you mean the privacy thingie that doesn't allow me capture my desktop, gonna try another thing, maybe is related with blocking my camera capture? Maybe it also disables desktop capture!! Thanks, you made me try a possible fix!

 

[Tea's Jams]

You can record with OBS

@Killuki Zaoldyeck Also, I've asked you this question twice and you haven't answered me.

When this happens to you, are you using the Steam or standalone version?

I've used MV for three years and it's never happened to me, it hasn't happened with MZ yet either. I have an integrated+ nVidia graphics and multiple monitors.

 

[Killuki Zaoldyeck]

Guys, I know what's the culprit of the issue, it's half issue with MZ/MV itself getting confused by "which is the dedicated graphic card", and half issue of how NVIDIA started to adapt their software with 3rd party chipsets compatibility.

Let me explain a thing on laptops.
Right know, on a laptop there are two graphics cards, the "energy-saving" one (Intel chipset mostly), and the "dedicated one" (AMD/NVIDIA chipset).

That's how behave laptops (or desktop computers behaving like a laptop, which can be the case of AIOs):

• When you have no external monitor attached on the laptop, the laptop directly uses the dedicated card when it is needed and just few NVIDIA settings are available:
  
• When you attach an external monitor, the laptop one ACTS as an integrathed, generic panel, so it's not recognized by nvidia and any application a-like as a dedicated monitor, and, all the real settings of NVIDIA control panel are unlocked:
  
• Additionally, the integrated panel begins to only use the energy-saving integrathed chipset, while sends all the dedicated chipset performance to the external monitor, so basically RPG Maker DOESN'T KNOW ON WHICH GRAPHIC CARD MUST WORK, thus crashing when you try open any of its window inside the integrathed chipset or in the dedicated one.

Also, I remembered that when MV was crashing for the "same issue" than now, was when I was using Aster Multiseat software, which makes a virtual monitor (or full virtual hardwares) for the second seat while maintaining the 1st user monitor as the main one, so I could only load MV on the 1st user but crashed on the 2nd user.

So why you can't reproduce the issue in desktop? That's because the people who faces this issue are people with hybrid chipsets and specially that has it's own integrathed panel, potentially laptop and AIO users, probably with NVIDIA+Intel chipsets.

This is a huge shame that most responsability falls on Windows, laptop manufacturers and NVIDIA....

EDIT: I also tried to force RPG Maker to open on a single graphic card, but didn't worked:


Doesn't matter if I select the energy-saving or the dedicated chipsets... the issue is how the integrathed panel behaves (due chipset software mainly) when an external monitor is plugged in.

EDIT2: Also, to get what I mean:
UP: Zowie (external monitor) DOWN: Integrathed panel



Indeed, a conflict with two graphic chipsets being active at same time to keep working integrathed panel, so if I want to work with MZ/MV, I must connect a second monitor by HDMI and forget about the integrathed panel!!! That sucks, all by fault of manufacturers lack of logic.

Integrated panels can only work with dedicated card when no external monitor is plugged in, otherwise, both cards will be used at the same time, thus making two active gpu profiles and confusing softwares about how them must work, crashing them or decreasing their real performance.

EDIT3: If I disable Intel drivers, the integrated panels keeps on but at black screen, also still figures as active in the monitor manager.


So here we go, we have now a dead monitor. Integrated panel can only work with integrated chipset, while external monitors can work with any of them, in order to fix the issue by KADOKAWA, they should make their program compatible with multiple active graphic profiles, otherwise, the second active graphic profile will be taken as a dead monitor.

EDIT4: Okay, the "dead" monitor was a glitch, I closed the screen settings and opened it again, figured the integrated panel as disabled, I enabled it and now supposedly both uses only NVIDIA Card, BUT!!
Guess what!! Now we have a THIRD GRAPHIC CONTROLLER!! HOOORRAYYYYY!!!


This is ****ing stupid, really, how manufacturers and even Microsoft itself messes up their customers... now I think I wasted my 1600€ on this laptop... really.... FOR THIS **** I BOUGHT A """"DEDICATED CARD"""""" LAPTOP???? MSI and probably other manufacturers should be proud with this spitting at customers money...


Please mods, don't ever delete or lock this topic, I'm going to report all these findings to Nvidia, Microsoft, Intel and MSI because I find this really stupid, clearly now laptops with dedicated cards aren't worth what they cost, since the manufacturers decides which chipset use and not the customer.

Microsoft and manufacturers are hard-locking the true potential of dedicated cards....

 

[Tea's Jams]

Wow! Good detective work! This is really fabulous information.

I've never been able to use a laptop with multiple monitors, most simply aren't capable, maybe partly due to this issue?

 

[Kupotepo]

@Killuki Zaoldyeck, congratulations on fixing the problems. The graphic card [VRAM] usually is the main problem when dealing the display problems. When I install MV in past with the bad VRAM, it didn't display. That is interesting information you show with us about conflict graphic cards. Good to know thank you.

@Killuki Zaoldyeck, are you fixing the problems yet? Also, great attention-getter.
I am ok, please don't worry. I have a desktop and the MZ works fine with the split monitors.
Also, do you a collection of graphic cards in your house? lol.

 

[Killuki Zaoldyeck]

Wow! Good detective work! This is really fabulous information.

I've never been able to use a laptop with multiple monitors, most simply aren't capable, maybe partly due to this issue?

It can be, if you know the brand and model name we can check if also uses two graphic cards or not.
Maybe AMD laptops aren't affected at all since the full laptop uses AMD chipsets, who knows.


In short, we can say that for developers Intel+NVIDIA chipsets is a scam. Well, I bid there are also some gamers wanting to play two games at once and facing huge slow downs on the integrated panel... I also fully understand now why OBS is lagged when it is placed on my integrated panel... because it starts using the codecs of Intel!

So, in short, Intel+NVIDIA are only for travelling gamers, hah... I wish I could request a refund after a year T_T

Should I file this to a consumer office if none of nvidia, intel or msi fixes this issue? I also really think that this can be fixed with software.... because if the integrated panel uses NVIDIA chipsets when there isn't any external plugged in, then I can't explain even why I'm a boy and not a dinosaur

EDIT: Aaaah nooo these slowdowns also will affect to vegas rendering and all these stuffs... sure... why didn't I built a small computer case instead to bring it to my work, having there a wide screen I wouldn't care lose a tiny screen... at least, I wouldn't feel scammed...

EDIT2:

@Killuki Zaoldyeck, are you fixing the problems yet? Also, great attention-getter.
I am ok, please don't worry. I have a desktop and the MZ works fine with the split monitors.
Also, do you a collection of graphic cards in your house? lol.

I couldn't. And lol, I don't have a graphics card collection in my house, all the three "graphic cards" are built on my laptop:

Specification GL63 (8th Gen Intel® Core™ processor / GeForce RTX™ 20 series)

Welcome to the MSI Global official site. We are the top Gaming gear provider.

msi.com

TIP: Don't buy any intel+nvidia laptop if you're developer/streamer

 

[Kupotepo]

@Killuki Zaoldyeck, I am finally finished reading your research paper. I hope other members here too. Your laptop is great qualities and you have right to be angry-the gamer laptop quality.
Inform the manufacturers, so they can roll the update and I hope we do not see in the newspaper lol.
lol the compatability issues again, I think the supports there would see this issue as ordinary expected.
Wow great laptop with 3 graphic cards, well it is for gaming after all.
Another question that should be explore? How many people here play two games in different screens?

 

[Killuki Zaoldyeck]

and I hope we do not see in the newspaper lol.

I hope so! Hahah, I'm the kind of person which to get such issue fixed mainly because these manufacturers ignores this potential conflict, I could even start a campaign telling something like...
"NVIDIA Laptops, developer? Netflix on the day, gamer on the train, developer in neighbors pc "
...and unveiling such big issue by spreading these facts to technicians youtubers to make them share this huge issue with their viewers, so, you'll find how quick they'll launch a patch and stops ignoring this! More effective than try get money refunded during years

 

[Kupotepo]

I try this yet; FYI it is common problem than I think. https://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Noteb...en-Intel-and-NVidia-graphic-card/td-p/6442981


@Hudell, from what I googling search the problem will exist when Intel and NVIDIA graphic cards work together lol.

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/forums/game-ready-drivers/13/274370/conflicting-graphics-card-and-integrated-graphics-/

Solution: Plug in extra monitor with a DVI cable connected to the graphics card, and load up the BIOS. Enable On-board Graphics card and disable add-in graphics card. Save Changes. Reboot.

The tech people here even said the chips hate each other like water and fire.

Does Intel Graphics Have to be Disabled for Nvidia?

Some technologies, like Nvidia Scalable Link Interface, do allow a computer to use multiple graphics cards at the same time, but only if the cards match. Intel HD Graphics were developed to enable a PC to output video to a monitor at a reduced cost, but the graphics performance just doesn't come...

itstillworks.com

Microsoft probably knows this:

Enable Intel HD Graphics and NVIDIA GPU automatically on Desktop

Hi, I just upgraded my desktop with the following config: Intel i5 7400 CPU, NVIDIA GeForce 1050, Win 10x64, etc. So obviously I have two display ports - one coming from inbuilt Intel HD 630 graphics,

answers.microsoft.com

 

[Hudell]

My previous computer was a laptop with two graphic cards and also didn't have any problem with MV. I'll see if it's still working and try MZ on it