Customizable TCG Scripts && Resources

[The Prince of Sarcasm]

Well, good luck. I would help support you but I'm still a kid and can't at the moment. How will the online login affect the whole project?

 

[??????]

The online login will only be seen in my game - the game that will showcase the TCG scripts at work. When the login systems are not there it will have a normal newgame/savegame feature instead.

Obviously the online login will remove that and placeal user data in an onine database.

 

[Clord]

You should offer online features as something others can utilize too if they want to.


I know it takes a lot more knowledge to set up but some people with a serious commercial projects might want to do that too.

 

[??????]

I could, but really, that would just bring a ton of newbish questions to my feet. How to do xyz and setup a server and how to get a webhost and whatever else.

Of course, if someone was really serious about their project and wanted to obtain such systems, I would be willing to discuss it with them

 

[gRaViJa]

Just an idea, but you could offer online play as a payable add-on. If you make a standard how-to document, the buyers have to fend for themselves from there on. I'm sure Degica or the makers of Luna Engine aren't obliged to answer every single question about their product(s).

 

[??????]

Its not something I am completely disregarding, but I do want to have the main focus be the actual TCG. If I do release online systems for it, they will likely be released a while after the TCG project is, cause it will take much longer to add a similar level of customization into them.

 

[sokita]

Well, in Yugioh: Forbidden Memories, when you are playing versus Player 2 (human), the cards graphic will be replaced by their numbers on the deck. For example, you placed blue eyes white dragon to very top of your deck (the interface before battle), and player 2 placed blue eyes white dragon to the very bottom, so you will find the your blue eyes as number 1 and your opponent's blue eyes will be 40. 

 

[IRHP]

Sounds great.

 

[Clord]

I could, but really, that would just bring a ton of newbish questions to my feet. How to do xyz and setup a server and how to get a webhost and whatever else.


Of course, if someone was really serious about their project and wanted to obtain such systems, I would be willing to discuss it with them

Still, that is one of more reason someone might give you more money to fund it. You could have it as premium system for some bit higher tier reward (still cheap but as extra intensive.)

 

[??????]

That is certainly an idea..

I have been re-writing the scripts (again...) to try and be more user friendly when HTTP scripts are available.  So yea, I have been running with the idea of allowing users access to online features ~ providing they are using my HTTP scripts (which are coming along very nicely btw ~ I just finished a lovey auto patch detection / download script for the game launcher).

 

[gRaViJa]

Keep going, looking forward to the results!

 

[Wavelength]

Just wanted to post a few of my musings on a system like this; hopefully it can serve as some good food for thought.

There are lots of different combat systems, and even some TCG games that don't include combat... and also lots of different ways that play flows.  To use some examples of a very specific mechanic - creatures attacking.

• Hearthstone - choose creatures one at a time and choose which creature or player they attack.  Life points are deducted appropriately from both creatures.
• Magic: The Gathering - choose creatures one at a time to attack; your opponent chooses (with restrictions like tapped creatures can't block) which of their creatures will defend.  Life points are deducted from both creatures.
• Pokemon TCG - one creature (the active Pokemon) attacks using one of its abilities each turn.  You must have enough "mana" to use the ability.  Your other creatures (the Bench) do not attack.  The target is usually, but not always, selected for you.  Life points are deducted from the target.  There is no concept of "the player" for attacks.
• Spectromancer - all of your creatures attack automatically attack the creature opposite them every turn, whether you like it or not.  Life points are deducted from the target.  The player is only attacked if there is no creature in the opposite slot.
• Yu-Gi-Oh! - choose creatures one at a time and choose which creature they attack.  There is no concept of creature Life Points; the creatures' Attack/Attack or Attack/Defense values are compared and one is destroyed.  The player can be targetted only if all creatures have been destroyed.
• Neopets TCG - choose creatures one at a time; the Arena (area they are played in) is activated and your opponent chooses which of their creatures in that Arena will defend.  In general creatures are not destroyed when they lose a match, and there is no concept of Life Points.
• Race for the Galaxy/San Juan - No concept of attacking; you simply play cards onto your tableau.  A card on your tableau provides benefits during the game or during the final "Victory Points" judgement.  As a twist, both players draw from the same deck.

In addition, in many of the TCGs where you select targets, there are restrictions to the selection, such as Hearthstone's Taunt or MTG's Cannot be targetted by (X) Color and Flying.

This is just one tiny mechanic out of many (playing of cards, selecting of cards, activation of powers, concept of what is a deck, etc.), and it comes in so many different incomparable flavors across all different TCGs.  And this is one of those reasons why I don't envy the task in front of you as far as creating a system that's both intuitive and flexible as far as creating different rulesets go.  Personally, the success with which you do this is going to determine whether I purchase your engine, and if it's really good then there's essentially no upper bound to how much money I'd be willing to pay for it.

Earlier in the topic I missed that someone had suggested two-player and you were leaning against implementing it.  I beg you to reconsider!  As a designer I would love to be able to have two-player Hot Seat.  To be able to play a game of my own creation, I think my friends and I would be perfectly willing to "look away" from the screen during each others' turns; it's a small price to pay.  Lots of games, like Civilization and Heroes of Might and Magic, include Hot Seat multiplayer and I feel like it's essential for any competitive PC game that doesn't include online multiplayer.  But there's an even bigger reason why I feel it's necessary - for testing.  If I want to design a good, balanced, and fun TCG, I need to be able to see how it works with two humans playing and counterplaying each other, not one human and a deterministic (or even randomized) AI.  Even if the TCG is going to be basically a single-player experience inside a larger game, I want the core rules to be good enough that the game would play well with two people.  And for that, there's no better way to test than Hot Seat.

One final thought - it would be very cool to have "use card" and "dismantle card" options - where the "use card" would work exactly as if the card were a normal item in the database (and could be used on the menu or during standard RPG combat to achieve some effect, such as lowering the Encounter Rate or damaging an enemy), and the "dismantle card" (much like Draw from a card in FF8) would destroy the card and give you some item(s) or contribute to a variable like "Crafting Powder".  This could be done via Common Events, of course, but creating a script to make it much easier for the designer to create these common kinds of systems could be a nice selling point for the engine.

 

[Clord]

There is also one huge task that will take a big portion of development time.


Making a AI that actually plays well with given rules.


Many Magic the Gathering and Yu-Gi-Oh! games have a very good enemy AI nowadays but it is result of long development across its games, especially in Yu-Gi-Oh! case.


Hearthstone's AI still struggles to play well but nowadays it is at least competent.

 

[Wavelength]

There is also one huge task that will take a big portion of development time.

Making a AI that actually plays well with given rules.

Many Magic the Gathering and Yu-Gi-Oh! games have a very good enemy AI nowadays but it is result of long development across its games, especially in Yu-Gi-Oh! case.

Hearthstone's AI still struggles to play well but nowadays it is at least competent.

I love that you brought this up, Clord.  I'm not sure I agree with your desire for "an AI that actually plays well with given rules", though.

I honestly wouldn't mind if the system came with a "dumb as a bag of hammers" AI by default, so long as the tools are there to allow me to give it rules and algorithms to work with (without me having to do much coding).  After all, if the TCG engine is flexible that you could games with rulesets as diverse as Hearthstone, Spectromancer, or San Juan... then I wouldn't expect an AI that comes with the program to be able to play any of them well.  Sure, you could make a single AI that's flexible enough to play "Magic the Gathering" and "Magic the Gathering but with 40 starting Life" and "Magic the Gathering but with different tap rules", but I imagine it would be impossible that would make a single AI that's flexible to play "a game like MTG" and "a game like Yu-Gi-Oh!" and "a game like Race for the Galaxy".

By the way, of the card game AIs I've seen I'm most impressed with Spectromancer's; its best AI "Archmage" plays the game at what most players would agree is about Level 20 (which would place it in the top 3% or so of active human players), and does so without cheating.  I believe the developers have said that they trained it by having it play thousands of games against itself and "learning" what works and what doesn't.  They've also confirmed that they once created an account online that, unknown to players, was actually the Archmage AI, and its level did indeed come in somewhere around 20.  Wild Mass Guessing ensued.

 

[Clord]

With "competent" I meant that AI could handle some basic logic like "I'm out of cards! Time to shoot that Acolyte of Pain with my fireball as I'm mage!"


Basic turn logic of minimizing damage to allies while maximizing damage on enemies on turn etc.


AI that calculates if enemy has lethal and tries to counteract even if it is already too late but at least it doesn't give human as cheap victory if it can prevent it.

 

[metronome]

I just saw this thread, and I think it is a great idea. Seriously. Who wouldn't?

But, you really gotta add online feature into this system....

TCG is more about pvp experience anyway. One of the very reason why people play TCG is because of the players involved in it.

I wouldn't have played Magic the Gathering, ChaOS, Z/X, Wixoss, nor Pokemon if there are no player I know of playing any of them, even if there are games talking about them (eg: I wouldn't even play Pokemon Ruby/Red/whatever even if the game is not talking about the TCG if I haven't had any player I know of playing the TCG).. Seriously.

IMO, physical cards are being pushed really hard right now by those abstract online TCG out there, and -again, IMO- it is a loosing battle for physical cards, especially in smartphones era. Having online capabilities for the TCG system, especially in RPGMaker, will help a lot.~~

 

[??????]

Hey guys, sorry for the mega slow reply. I've been insanely busy recently and unfortunately, haven't had much time to write any code.  The time I have had has been spent writing something cool (in case you are interested -> link).

Anyway...

@Wavelength ~ Yea, it has already, and likely will continue to be very arduous.  Trying to implement all of these features is troublesome enough, and thats before giving them an insane level of customization for each feature.

Yes, I do understand that having a two player feature would greatly increase playability for when more than one person wishes to play, but yea, I'm still not sure about adding it in.  In my head, the whole playfield would require rotating, which I dont think is ideal.

I must say, I do like your ideas for having "use" and "dismantle" cards. I was already intending to have cards that are able to be 'transformed' into usable components required for the manufacture of new cards, so i think these would all work very well together.

@Clord ~ AI is a total dick!  ~ Thats all I'm gonna say on this issue ^_^

As Wavelength states, being able to 'control' the AI in various ways is much more important than how the default AI is set up, but of course, I do want the default AI to be an intuitive as I can make it.

I am already a huge fan of having my AI play against itself ~ Its something I have doen with all projects to gain a better understanding of bugs and such, it also helps make things considerable more difficult.

@metronome ~ Thanks for your interest

Yes, I understand your point ~ that TCG's are a game that is best experienced hen having PVP style battles.

A few people have now stated about online features and I mean, yes, I *could* add such features but its really not an easy thing to do...

Additionally, I am not sure if it would be viable for me to spend the time adding online features.  I mean yes, sales would surely increase if I also offered online features, but the time the system takes to finish will also dramatically increase ~ hell, it already got put on hold for a little too long due to HTTP related issues, and the more HTTP (online) features I add, the harder its going to get.

I suppose the deciding factor (for whether this system will have online features) will be determined by the 'sales' of my upcoming 'pay to get' scripts.

 

[Clord]

I don't envy your job about Yu-Gi-Oh! rules implementation.


XYZ Summon, Fusion Summon, Pendorulium Summon, Synchro-Summon, Tribute Summon, Advance Summon and more summon methods.


Top of that, the AI doesn't do well in that if it just spams his way to most powerful monster on turn one (assuming it has the cards to do that.) Still that is probably a good idea so AI don't just get stomped.

 

[??????]

The Yu-gi-oh TCG is awesome, but yea, implemting the game rues is not a fun task at all

Also ~ I'm kinda trying to ake it s that the AI things in a similar manner to a real player ~ using cards strategically in some sence

 

[Benjamin Kuli]

I'll just leave this message here to wish you good luck with your project. This script seems really promising and the project can be a huge step-forward in RPG Maker VX Ace. As a huge TCG fan, I'm definitely interested in this kind of project, especially since I too have an idea for such a game that I'd create, and having a desktop version of a game is nowadays a welcomed idea. 

If you need any kind of support, feel free to contact me anytime.