Gabriel-Chi

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So i was making a game that has cutting,blunt and piercing as elements
I made those to make so ''melee" and physical characters feel better to play with, and that going both aways, hitting monsters that have weakness(es?) to one or more of these elements, or when the characters equip armor that gives resistance to monster attacks

The problem is, idk what to add on what if that makes sense

Like light armor would be weak to cutting and strong against blunt

A heavy armor would be the worst for someone that only has a dagger or sword, but would take more damage from a blunt weapon

But then woulnd't piercing be strong against everything? Or only be the same as cutting? idk what to do with it :kaosigh:
 

TheGentlemanLoser

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Skeletons, Chitinous Insects, Constructs/Golems, Plate Armor: strong against slashing, weak against bludgeoning
Amorphous (oozes, slimes, etcetera), Light Armor: strong against bludgeoning, weak against piercing
Fleshy, Zombies, Creatures w/o Vital Organs: strong against piercing, weak against slashing
Medium Armor, Chain Mail, Tough Skin/Scales, Natural Armor: strong against slashing, weak against piercing

I have had this system in literally every game I have made in the last 15+ years w/o ever talking about it, writing it out, or drawing attention to it lol
 

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perhaps best to think of it in terms of the weapons and types of armor you are implementing. I'd also suggest more research into that area. you've already listed some examples but try to elaborate.

sword and dagger could cut, light armor being some forms of cloth or leather. heavy armor could be plate armor, could be layers of materials. warhammers were used to deform plate armor and break bones/squish organs underneath it. as for piercing, a morning star is a combination of blunt impact but also has piercing spikes. a lance is pretty much piercing exclusively.it will go through light armor, but likely 'glide off' heavy armor types more easily. medium armor (thinking chainmail and likely gambeson underneath) would also be susceptible to piercing damage, but harder to get through than just a leather jerkin.

as far as I'm concerned, I'd give armors all 3 attributes but in varying degrees. for example:
leather armor: 15% cutting, 5% piercing, 25% blunt. plate mail: 40% cutting, 25% piercing, 35% blunt.

it's obviously down to you but think about the different physics that would apply and which weapons go best against which type of armor, vice versa what kind of armor was made to protect against what damage type the most. along these lines. I hope that helps :)
 

Gabriel-Chi

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perhaps best to think of it in terms of the weapons and types of armor you are implementing. I'd also suggest more research into that area. you've already listed some examples but try to elaborate.

sword and dagger could cut, light armor being some forms of cloth or leather. heavy armor could be plate armor, could be layers of materials. warhammers were used to deform plate armor and break bones/squish organs underneath it. as for piercing, a morning star is a combination of blunt impact but also has piercing spikes. a lance is pretty much piercing exclusively.it will go through light armor, but likely 'glide off' heavy armor types more easily. medium armor (thinking chainmail and likely gambeson underneath) would also be susceptible to piercing damage, but harder to get through than just a leather jerkin.

as far as I'm concerned, I'd give armors all 3 attributes but in varying degrees. for example:
leather armor: 15% cutting, 5% piercing, 25% blunt. plate mail: 40% cutting, 25% piercing, 35% blunt.

it's obviously down to you but think about the different physics that would apply and which weapons go best against which type of armor, vice versa what kind of armor was made to protect against what damage type the most. along these lines. I hope that helps :)
It helps so much, i will try to study from where the weapons i use come from and how they are used to make it more realistic, as your examples made my mind more clear, thanks a lot
 

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When adding different types of armour you could also consider how they are made instead of which material is used: Plate Armour will resist slashing, but has weaknesses at the joints, so piercing damage would work better than cutting damage.
Chainmail is hard to pierce or to cut, but you will feel an attacks impact way more than if you are wearing plates, so blunt damage could be more effective etc.

There are a lor of different historical armour types, like ribbon armour, scale armour and so on. You could do some research to learn about their strength and weaknesses and adjust them to your damage system.
 

RachelTheSeeker

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Is it bad I'd like to see Slashing and Piercing rolled into one element ("Sharp"), and leave Bludgeoning alone ("Blunt")? But I digress. Personally, does having separate damage elements for weapons really matter? As a medieval martial arts geek, I think not.

The way armor works IRL, I wouldn't necessarily say that most creatures should have an outright weakness to certain weapons than a resistance. Unless you're swinging a big ol' maul (militarized sledgehammer basically) or a halberd into someone's head, a mace really isn't that amazing at busting a helmeted head open. Trouble is, it's often the only chance to beat heavy medieval armor. By the 15th Century, breastplates were proofed against musket balls, let alone melee weapons and subsonic projectiles. Granted black powder and non-rifled gun barrels are obsolete compared to modern firearms, but still.

Even so! You weren't completely helpless if you had a melee weapon. Despite basically wearing a shield as full-body armor, even armored dudes carried thick heater shields strapped to their arms sometimes. Why? Because top-heavy, two-handed weapons like the aforementioned halberd and maul. Many carried daggers as sidearms or "open carry" weapons, and if you're that close to a dude in armor, you've got all sorts of open spots on armor to push a sharp point into. This is a crapshoot at best, but you're not helpless. Use a sword and "half-sword" the blade to treat it like a dagger and there ya go: you have a versatile weapon to butcher people in and out of armor. Well, assuming you knew how to fight. Hell, even just smashing the pommel into someone's head gives you a workaround if you lack a metal-capped beatstick.

For human-vs-human fighting, there are ways to work around armor to the point where damage elements don't matter. Anyone who gets hit in an unarmored spot is going to get really hurt. That's what weapons do. Anyone who knows how to use a weapon really good can make up for having an edged weapon against metallic armor, and it's not like a mace super-intensifies damage to armor. It's not like you just shot through the dude's breastplate with a modern rifle, or used a raygun to cook them alive in their own armor.

tl;dr Hit someone in unarmored spot? They're maimed, duh. But every armor has its weak points, and even edged weapons can kill a knight in full plate armor.

Of course, everything behind that spoiler tag assumes humanoid-vs-humanoid. But logistically speaking, are monsters really that different? Wouldn't a dragon's scales act as metal armor? Wouldn't a skeleton's calcified bones? How more or less squishy would a zombie, goblin, orc, et cetera be to common human weapons than a common human? How do you carve or bludgeon a ghost without magicked weapons? And you can't tell me a mystical golem of solid stone would be that fazed by a sledgehammer, and perhaps not by a stick of dynamite.

If you'd like to include weapon elements, I vouch that nothing is necessarily weak to any physical damage types, but can only resist them. But I myself am also only using a "Melee" or "Physical" element right now for personal reasons. Your mileage may vary. Nothing wrong with different physical elements on weapons, as I like them in certain games. But I personally don't care about them enough for games I'd wanna make.
 
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In the end, it is the same as the standard element name system but with a different name. What makes the element system interesting would also work with this.

Maybe, you are trying to make sense of the labels you are going to use. But tell you what, the player would just follow the rules you are going to use. Take Fire Emblem as an example. Does the weapon triangle system make sense? that's debatable, but that is the rules in the game and you follow them.

You can, for example, make the rules like this. (+ = resistance, - = weak)

> Light armor:
Slash (-)
Pierce (+)
Impact (+)

> Medium armor (no modifier)
Slash (+)
Pierce (-)
Impact (+)

> Heavy armor
Slash (+)
Pierce (+)
Impact (-)

I can give you several reasons why I thought of this, such as
> Light armor (leather armor) represents agility. Club swing or pierce attack may not as fast as assassin blade. And thus, a slashing attack works better for light armor.
> Medium armor (chain mail) represents versatility. It protects you well enough but also leaves a weak spot such as an arrow goes through the chain mail armor.
> Heavy armor (plate armor) protects you well enough. Targetting the weak point would be hard. But impact damage would go through the armor as the shock would resonate through the body and deliver the damage better than the other two.

Of course, there could be a counterargument to these reasons. Guess what, it doesn't matter. You make the rules, the players follow. As long as you make it easy to learn.
 

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Your confusion is coming from the fact that damage types vs. armor types is a very muddy relationship - and if it's not immediately clear to you, how in the world do you expect your player to intuit or remember it?

I recently discussed why I hate when weapons each have different damage types (like slashing, piercing, blunt, etc.) that modify damage calculations - full post is here. While I focus on damage vs. specific enemies, almost all of the same logic (for why it's a bad mechanic) applies to damage vs. armor types as well.

I would strongly recommend ditching the damage types and going with more clear, more interesting, more "gamey" relationships between weapon types and armor types. Don't worry so much about realism. For example, maybe daggers attack twice for lower damage and axes attack once for higher damage - but heavy armor reduces the damage taken by 40 per hit, meaning it's more effective against the multi-hit of daggers. Meanwhile, maybe bows have a higher critical hit chance, while certain types of light armor (or even all light armor) prevents all critical hits. Now there's a very clear, easy-to-understand relationship between the types of equipment and what works well against what. It leaves a lot of room for the player to make strategic choices.
 

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