Dark Chaos

[RATED-RKOFRANKLIN]

Removed

 

[RATED-RKOFRANKLIN]

Removed

 

[RATED-RKOFRANKLIN]

Removed

 

[RATED-RKOFRANKLIN]

Removed

 

[Hesufo]

Here are my first impressions of your new demo (new content for me is: the latest two updates).

- The intro has been shortened indeed, however it still feels like a gigantic wall of information thrown at the player, what with the random screen changes

and quick strings of events being told. I suggest you hire a writer or something, because the narrative of the game is pretty weak.

- There are a few typos in the intro and a few NPCs. Double-check your text dialogues.

- The dramatic intro music lingers when you first take control of Franklin in the house.

- For the battle backgrounds, some player sprites appear to be standing in the air, on the trees, etc.

- Some of the facesets and charsets of some NPCs don't match in the second town.

- When Audrey joins in, her sprite doesn't appear in battle.

- I didn't like the sideview battle system, because it is poorly implemented. The enemy sprites still look in frontview style and there is not action (even

damage dealt is text-based and no pop-outs).

I will edit with some more when I resume play, just wanted you to know the general feeling I had of the features. The new intro is a good start, but you need to change the narrative's execution because it currently just weirded me out a bit, especially when, after all that, you get thrown into the cliché morning-waking start, which isn't necessarily a bad thing but it needs to be executed well.

 

[RATED-RKOFRANKLIN]

Thanks for playing!

- The intro has been shortened indeed, however it still feels like a gigantic wall of information thrown at the player, what with the random screen changes

and quick strings of events being told. I suggest you hire a writer or something, because the narrative of the game is pretty weak.

The screen changes are showing what the narrator is describing. It wasn't meant to be random.

- When Audrey joins in, her sprite doesn't appear in battle.

This bug will be fixed with the correct script.

- Some of the facesets and charsets of some NPCs don't match in the second town.

I just checked the game for the faceset errors. I only found one NPC without a matching faceset. One character's faceset doesn't completely match because Enterbrain did not create a faceset for People5. I'm stuck with that one for the time being.

- The dramatic intro music lingers when you first take control of Franklin in the house.

I just fixed it! Thanks for reporting it.

- There are a few typos in the intro and a few NPCs. Double-check your text dialogues.

I found and fixed the typos in the intros. Which NPCs have typos? Thanks

I will edit with some more when I resume play, just wanted you to know the general feeling I had of the features. The new intro is a good start, but you need to change the narrative's execution because it currently just weirded me out a bit, especially when, after all that, you get thrown into the cliché morning-waking start, which isn't necessarily a bad thing but it needs to be executed well.

I am very open to suggestions. Please do not make any demands such as telling me what I "need" to do. You're not apart of this game's team. The doesn't have a team. Suggestions are welcome but demands are not.

How were you weird out by the introduction? What was awkward or unsettling about it?

Again thanks for pointing out the bugs and errors. Most are now fixed.

 

[Hesufo]

You should...? It's just a difference in the wording. What I mean to say is that right now the introduction is lackluster and not gripping at all because it's just a quick string of events you learn from text and still screens (except for the regicide scene which the viewer can't really relate to or link with anything, plot-wise).

The happenings that are told to the player are extremely vague. A group of unspecified nations become hungry for power and greed for no apparent reason (they "became intolerant" isn't really a reason), and started a Great War. Dragon Warriors appeared from nowhere and created an enormous "power". (what is a "power", anyways? Is it tangible?) Then, some guy rebels for no apparent reason either and is exiled. He then comes back and prepares to wage war against the World.

Anyone who reads the introduction and sees the barebones screenies and initial events will notice the whole thing is just a convoluted mess. What role does the Dragon Warriors' power play in Gauchet's "War vs. the World?". How big is the actual world, how many nations are there and what is Romanica?

The introduction just tells you so many things (but does not explain them) in a straightforward manner that the player doesn't end up catching most of this. The general impression it would give is "typical old-school RPG's worldview intro, bad guy wants to take over the world, hero wakes up, time to play".

I would like you to reply to my comment on the side-view battle system - it looks like you just added the hero sprites to the right, moved the enemy sprites to the left and nothing else... it's really lacking.

I know some of the criticism digs deep within your game's design, but I'll be honest with you: you have to make pretty big changes if you want your project to be noticed as worthwhile and get more replies. If you don't care much about this, you can steer clear of the big narrative changes I suggested and fixing the battle system, but please look at those, make a comparison with the good SNES RPGs, for example, or the more popular RM games out there, and try to improve on these aspects. I'll try to finish up your Demo later and wrap up my thoughts.

Best of luck

 

[RATED-RKOFRANKLIN]

Anyone who reads the introduction and sees the barebones screenies and initial events will notice the whole thing is just a convoluted mess. What role does the Dragon Warriors' power play in Gauchet's "War vs. the World?". How big is the actual world, how many nations are there and what is Romanica?

Were you paying attention to the introduction? I won't answer your questions. Some of them can be answered in the introduction. One of your question is asking for a spoiler. I won't post spoilers.

I would like you to reply to my comment on the side-view battle system - it looks like you just added the hero sprites to the right, moved the enemy sprites to the left and nothing else... it's really lacking.

I will not be changing the side view battle system. It is a simple system that I think works well. I've had other testers who liked the battle system.

The happenings that are told to the player are extremely vague. A group of unspecified nations become hungry for power and greed for no apparent reason (they "became intolerant" isn't really a reason), and started a Great War. Dragon Warriors appeared from nowhere and created an enormous "power". (what is a "power", anyways? Is it tangible?) Then, some guy rebels for no apparent reason either and is exiled. He then comes back and prepares to wage war against the World.

Please do not ask for spoilers. I will not tell you what the power is. Again please pay attention to the introduction. There is more to Gauchet's story in the introduction.

 

[Hesufo]

They were rhetorical questions, meant to show you that all the info you show but don't explain, in the end, doesn't have any value at all to the player when he tries your project because he can't really relate it to anything in the actual game (for the Demo, at least).

 

[RATED-RKOFRANKLIN]

They were rhetorical questions, meant to show you that all the info you show but don't explain, in the end, doesn't have any value at all to the player when he tries your project because he can't really relate it to anything in the actual game (for the Demo, at least).

You're missing the point in my comments. Introductions don't normally tell the players everything about the story. The first half of the introduction is back story. The second half of the introduction gives the players some knowledge about what is happening in present. A person should not expect to know everything about the game's story in the introduction and in a demo.

Why are you talking about yourself in 3rd person? If you're trying to talk for everyone then you shouldn't. You're the first person who has ever played this game and do not understand what is going on. You shouldn't speak for everyone if that is what you're trying to do.

 

[Hesufo]

I don't "not understand what is going on". Shablo5 posted something similar with his "Show, don't tell" comment. If Try not to use too many specific names the player is not going to remember. I seriously forgot most names and villains you threw in the intro almost as soon as I took control of Franklin in the game. A smart introduction gives, at most, an overview of the backstory and is not picky about details. Check out FF6's introduction, for example:



The game doesn't say any exact names or towns, it just shows the premise of the game and foreshadows the events that will unfold, while in addition placing the main character in the middle of the action from the get-go. And that wraps up backstory and current setting in about 1 minute and a half, with narrative that feels interesting and grips the player.

In the end, it's not just about shortening your intro, it's also about making it smoother and gripping the player with it, make them wanna know more about the story. You can work with a lot of ideas; cut down on the exposition and make some NPCs say a few bits about the game's lore. Have someone explain some more about the backstory after reaching some early point in the game - make the player interact with your world to learn about it more.

EDIT: My post was unfinished at some parts, sorry.

 

[RATED-RKOFRANKLIN]

I don't "not understand what is going on".

Really? Still sounds like it.

For the last time the introduction does not tell the player everything. The entire story and how the story will play out are not told. I didn't use anything names the players would forget.

Where are you in the demo? It sounds like you've made very little progress. You're complaining about not receiving the entire story in a demo. A demo is not going to tell you everything you want to know about the game.

 

[Gomi Boy]

No, he's complaining about your poor storytelling. Quit doin' the strawman thing.

 

[RATED-RKOFRANKLIN]

No, he's complaining about your poor storytelling. Quit doin' the strawman thing.

I have the right defend my game as much as Hesufo has the right to criticize it. I don't have to agree with anyone's opinions.

 

[Gomi Boy]

You're disagreeing with them by misunderstanding their significance, is the problem. If you give a piece of criticism a fair look and still disagree with it that's one thing, but when you ignore comments about your storytelling by pretending the person making them simply doesn't know what he's talking about... Well, then that's a little bit odd.

You have to understand. This isn't about offense and defense. You're not being attacked. Hesufo is only bringing up negative points so that you can try to fix them, and just ignoring them won't accomplish anything.

 

[RATED-RKOFRANKLIN]

You're disagreeing with them by misunderstanding their significance, is the problem. If you give a piece of criticism a fair look and still disagree with it that's one thing, but when you ignore comments about your storytelling by pretending the person making them simply doesn't know what he's talking about... Well, then that's a little bit odd.

You have to understand. This isn't about offense and defense. You're not being attacked. Hesufo is only bringing up negative points so that you can try to fix them, and just ignoring them won't accomplish anything.

I have not misunderstood this person's comments. He doesn't like the storytelling in the game. Fine, I can live with that. I know I won't please everyone.

Don't lie about what I have said. I have not pretended he doesn't know what he is talking about. I honestly disagree with his opinions.

I can disagree with anyone's opinions. Don't tell someone that they must agree with someone's opinions. I can ignore or in this case reject a person's criticism.

 

[Gomi Boy]

Sure you can, champ! But you're still doing it based on a false rationale, and your game will suffer if you're too eager to believe you're already perfect and don't need to change anything. It isn't a simple matter of "oh, he doesn't like it! oh well can't please everyone heh" when the person giving the critique has offered the reasoning behind their assessment (and in this case provided examples of games doing the same thing you want to do, better).

There's "can" and then there's "should". Looking at this topic, I believe you're disagreeing with him because he's being negative, and that you haven't given the issue much consideration past that. In the end, what you do is your business -- but you're going to poison yourself if you continue.

To reiterate, I'm not saying that you have to agree with him, necessarily -- but you have to at least take this kind of criticism into consideration. And no, you haven't done that aleady.

e: Okay, you don't seem to understand this yet, so I'm going to make one thing very clear.

ＮＯ  ＯＮＥ  ＩＳ  ＳＡＹＩＮＧ  ＹＯＵ  ＮＥＥＤ  ＴＯ  ＡＧＲＥＥ  ＷＩＴＨ  ＡＬＬ  ＣＲＩＴＩＣＩＳＭ  ＵＮＣＯＮＤＩＴＩＯＮＡＬＬＹ．

 

[Clord]

That is how the professional fiction writing at least works. You just hope that when you sell your book, that people take it well. If his game turns out to be a total mess, he can just do an another. Unless the person is really stubborn, failed projects helps him to improve.

 

[Reynard Frost]

A demo is not going to tell you everything you want to know about the game.

A good demo does. It covers the basics of gameplay, introducing the player to how they will work in the full game. It also introduces the player to the story, revealing enough to have the player asking for more, not "what did I just watch?"

 

[RATED-RKOFRANKLIN]

Sure you can, champ! But you're still doing it based on a false rationale, and your game will suffer if you're too eager to believe you're already perfect and don't need to change anything. It isn't a simple matter of "oh, he doesn't like it! oh well can't please everyone heh" when the person giving the critique has offered the reasoning behind their assessment (and in this case provided examples of games doing the same thing you want to do, better).

There's "can" and then there's "should". Looking at this topic, I believe you're disagreeing with him because he's being negative, and that you haven't given the issue much consideration past that. In the end, what you do is your business -- but you're going to poison yourself if you continue.

To reiterate, I'm not saying that you have to agree with him, necessarily -- but you have to at least take this kind of criticism into consideration. And no, you haven't done that aleady.

I hate this type of thinking in the RM Community. I've seen it for years in numerous game topics. A developer has every right to reject criticism. I am sure the members who have made popular games have also rejected criticism.

I never said my game was perfect. If you read my conversation between me and Hesufo then you would had read my posts about fixing the game's bugs and errors. Rejecting criticism doesn't mean someone believes their game is perfect. It simply means the developer disagree with the player's opinion about a subject.

Why must a game developer agree with one gamer's criticism? Every game has positive and negative reviews. If every developer did this then no game would ever get finished.

Hesufo isn't the only person who has played the game. This game is posted at multiple forums. I have received feedback with the complete opposite opinions. I know people who like my game's new introduction. Some people told me that they like the battle system. Two people(not here) have told me that my game is sexist.

At the end of the day every developer must realize that not every gamer will like your game. Not every gamer will like your story. Not every gamer will like your battle system.

I do not have to take this under consideration. Do not make demands in my game topic. You are not apart of the game's staff. You have no right whatsoever to tell me what to do. As I said earlier suggestions are welcomed. Demands are unacceptable.

A good demo does. It covers the basics of gameplay, introducing the player to how they will work in the full game. It also introduces the player to the story, revealing enough to have the player asking for more, not "what did I just watch?"

My demo does cover all of these basics.

You misunderstood me. I was saying a demo should never tell a player everything about the game's story. What's the point in playing the completed version if you already know the story and how it will play out?