Dark Chaos

[Clord]

A good demo does. It covers the basics of gameplay, introducing the player to how they will work in the full game. It also introduces the player to the story, revealing enough to have the player asking for more, not "what did I just watch?"

Agreed. But I think he meant that he will not reveal the entire story in the demo. Just worded it poorly.

 

[Reynard Frost]

Nobody is demanding you do anything, RKO. Cool your jets, brah. Hesufo had a valid point, and you blatantly brushed it aside. I'm sure the other nice folks said nice things about your game, but all you really should do is just go, "Thanks, I'll keep that in mind." and move on. Don't justify to someone why you won't take a helpful suggestion, because it never goes over well.

In short, stop getting all defensive. Nobody is attacking you. They're just trying to help you make a good game.

 

[Gomi Boy]

That is how the professional fiction writing at least works. You just hope that when you sell your book, that people take it well. If his game turns out to be a total mess, he can just do an another. Unless the person is really stubborn, failed projects helps him to improve.

You think a novelist doesn't have an editor? Or people he shows a paragraph or two to for an opinion? No artist works in a vacuum. Any professional writer who takes the fire-and-forget approach is going to run into problems pretty quickly.

And RKO, I don't think you'll get it even after this, but I don't think I can just leave this edited into a past post because you're approaching this all wrong:

ＮＯ ＯＮＥ ＩＳ ＳＡＹＩＮＧ ＹＯＵ ＮＥＥＤ ＴＯ ＡＧＲＥＥ ＷＩＴＨ ＡＬＬ ＣＲＩＴＩＣＩＳＭ ＵＮＣＯＮＤＩＴＩＯＮＡＬＬＹ．

Capisce?

e: One more time!

 

[RATED-RKOFRANKLIN]

Nobody is demanding you do anything, RKO. Cool your jets, brah. Hesufo had a valid point, and you blatantly brushed it aside. I'm sure the other nice folks said nice things about your game, but all you really should do is just go, "Thanks, I'll keep that in mind." and move on. Don't justify to someone why you won't take a helpful suggestion, because it never goes over well.

In short, stop getting all defensive. Nobody is attacking you. They're just trying to help you make a good game.

You're contradicting yourself. No one is telling me what to do? You are telling me to just say "Thanks and move on".

I have every right to defend my game from any criticism. Criticism is welcomed. I may or may not agree with the person. Developers have much of a right to defend their games as much as members have the right to criticize games.

 

[Reynard Frost]

You're contradicting yourself. No one is telling me what to do? You are telling me to just say "Thanks and move on".

I have every right to defend my game from any criticism. Criticism is welcomed. I may or may not agree with the person. Developers have much of a right to defend their games as much as members have the right to criticize games.

I'm not TELLING you to do it. I said you SHOULD do it. Should = Suggestion. It's advice, not a command.

 

[Clord]

You think a novelist doesn't have an editor? Or people he shows a paragraph or two to for an opinion? No artist works in a vacuum. Any professional writer who takes the fire-and-forget approach is going to run into problems pretty quickly.

Nah. All great writers has at least a one guy who they take advice from. However that is pretty much it for some. Lord of the Rings books author basically shared ideas with the Narnia's writer. However they ended up influencing eachother's writing to better or worse.

 

[Hesufo]

You don't agree with my criticism, fine. But, may I ask why? Can you look at your intro and honestly say there is no room for improvement? Are you going to address the problem of the battle system having actors appear in mid-air and the enemy sprites looking to the screen?

I had good fun with your Demo, honestly. The story is promising and the characters are likeable. I just want you to see the faults in your project as I see them. That is why I have taken the time to post all these messages and explain myself over and over.

Please re-read my critique about your intro and storytelling and tell me why you disagree with it, because I think it's a very valid point of view and there IS a lot on which you can improve for your game to be more compelling.

 

[RATED-RKOFRANKLIN]

You don't agree with my criticism, fine. But, may I ask why? Can you look at your intro and honestly say there is no room for improvement? Are you going to address the problem of the battle system having actors appear in mid-air and the enemy sprites looking to the screen?

I had good fun with your Demo, honestly. The story is promising and the characters are likeable. I just want you to see the faults in your project as I see them. That is why I have taken the time to post all these messages and explain myself over and over.

Please re-read my critique about your intro and storytelling and tell me why you disagree with it, because I think it's a very valid point of view and there IS a lot on which you can improve for your game to be more compelling.

Are you serious? I do not have to agree with your opinion. I would like everyone to always agree with my opinion but that isn't reality. I have already told you why I disagree with your opinion. This is going in circles and I am finished explaining myself.

 

[Hesufo]

What I meant by that is for you to get some perspective on your project, basically, understand why I see faults in your project.

I kinda misworded that on my last post, but don't take things so literally, geez. See, you just brushed aside 90% of my post.

 

[Volrath]

Wow man, this really escalated quick, didn't it?

I get why criticism can feel frustrating. You work hard on a project, you want to be rewarded with praise when you get it up on the site. But chances are there is always room for improvement. And sometimes it's hard to hear that because you've just completed a big portion of the game and the idea of having to go back to it is weak sauce, you want to move forward. Right after you put out a demo or a game is probably the hardest time to deal with criticism....but I've found that if it's good, it sinks in eventually. I remember with MotW, sometimes somebody would say something and I'd think to myself, "That's stupid. This guy doesn't know what he's talking about." But then...weeks or perhaps months later, I'd have a little epiphany and be like "You know what? That guy was right."

You said that you're willing to discuss bugs and errors, but sometimes issues with a game go beyond simple mistakes. Sometimes the storytelling is problematic for whatever reason. And while that is obviously more subjective than a bug where you get teleported inside of a wall or something like that, it doesn't mean the complainer is always wrong. If someone says a part of the story is unclear, that's not necessarily a "mistake," but it could be a problem. Our games live in our heads, of course we the creators always know what's going on. It's not as obvious to a stranger playing it on the internet. In the end, you obviously do have a right to reject any piece of criticism, I have in the past. One guy was certain that in order to have a game that evoked comic books, I needed to re-do the whole thing to have stylized comic-ish backgrounds. It wasn't a bad idea by any means, but I am not a great pixel artist and nobody I knew was going to do that sort of work for free. It would have doomed MotW to vaporware and was simply not feasible, so I didn't do it. But it was worth pondering.

And take my word for it, as a longtime member of various RM forums, this kind of bitter arguing over criticism itself is not good for your game's reputation. People will read this thread, see that Hesufo was perfectly cordial about his criticism (maybe he shouldn't have said "you need to" but that's just a semantics issue, obviously he wasn't trying to say that his suggestions were mandatory) and got a series of blunt, rude replies from the creator. Someone who might have downloaded the game otherwise might read this and be like "Man, this guy's gonna bite my head off if I give him any feedback he doesn't like, might as well not even bother."

I'm not gonna get into an ongoing debate, so if you come back with "I do not have to listen to you. My game is perfection" or something similar, I'm just gonna go read something else. But I do suggest (only suggest, not order) that you consider what I've said. Peace.

 

[Knightmare]

Hey Frank. I definetely agree that a developer doesn't have to do everything someone suggests and shouldn't if it goes against the general idea of what you're trying to do. I don't think you're overreacting either as some pointed out.

Hesufo is a very subjective and honest person about his opinions on a game and some of his critique has helped me see some of the glaring flaws in my game that I didn't think about before or I may have looked passed. As well as offering advice on what would/could make the game better and why. Sure it adds development time but it helps to make the game more polished.

One definetely should defend their game if they have sufficient reason to and AFTER they took the criticism into consideration. I'm not saying that you didn't. If you want a good example look at my game thread on Maze of the Lost and towards the end of the second page you'll notice a critique from Hesufo and my response. I considered many of his ideas and shot down a couple that go against what I'm trying to "market" the game as.

So its definetely ok to reject criticism especially if it goes against what you're trying to build but taking suggestions on mechanical issues will definetely help to make your game better.

 

[TengHu]

• first cutscene:
  
• Epsilon
  "King Gauchet,"..."Equipped"
  
• Redick
  "preparing"
  
• Jericho
  "My powers will be used only for you"
  cutscene with mayor:
  
• -make the BGM fit the theme
  
• -Brad changes his mind too quick
  in Memphis
  
• -give a solid reason to check the inn for the injured soldier
  
• -how come someone screams for help but neither Franklin nor Brad acknowledge that someone's in trouble?
  
• -why don't the evil guys attack the injured soldier as well? he's the primary person who knows the information right?
  
• -making the girl fight against her will and it being "Romanica's only option" is stupid (for the lack of a better word)
  
• -Audrey changes her mind too quick. she doesn't even know Brad or Franklin yet she's willing to fight with them
  
• -how are three people supposed to change the tide of a full waging war?
  
• -no sense of direction after the Mayor cutscene
  

After the cutscene with the mayor, I just gave up. The story was too generic, the battle was too easy and I felt like I had no idea what I was doing because there was a lack of direction. To be honest, this game plays like a perverted 8 year old who just got RPG Maker and decided to make their very first game. I'm not trying to offend you but the errors with this game are too grand to miss. If you're planning on making a commercial game out of this, I suggest you play other successful RM games and find out what made/makes them so good. Also, plan out what you're going to do next because this game feels rushed.

As I said, I don't mean to offend you. I simply think that there's a HUGE room for improvement and you should focus on the story and dialogue a little more. I expected more from a game that began with XP a couple of years ago that had time to be improved enough in ACE.

I hope I helped you in some way. Sorry I didn't finish the game but it didn't grab me into the story enough for me to keep playing. :/

 

[choppa8732]

spelling errors:in memphis soldier says recovoerary, man says plea take my antidote, unknowns sentence is cut off,

in the boss fight audrey joins in, but her sprite is missing,

mayor rox tells audrey her power is combinded, then after dialogue the mayor just dissapears?

By the way I didnt actually have the antidote in my inventory, because i found this out to late, I died -.- At that point i stopped playing. How much is left in the demo ahead of me, i just confronted edge and lost to his lackey.

Overall I like the feel of the game, it could use some fixes but thats obviously what a demo and feedback is meant for. My only real suggestion would be to fix the battlers being in mid-air, and the pervert angle of it. I get it perversion is normal but I think its more on the side of being nasty than ha-ha funny. You may or may not take my advice, however this is just my 2 cents.

Mapping is pretty good so far, keep it up and don't get discouraged.

Oh and..... lol edge & christian, I see what you did there

 

[RATED-RKOFRANKLIN]

• first cutscene:
• Epsilon
  "King Gauchet,"..."Equipped"
  
• Redick
  "preparing"
  
• Jericho
  "My powers will be used only for you"
  cutscene with mayor:
  
• -make the BGM fit the theme
  
• -Brad changes his mind too quick
  in Memphis
  
• -give a solid reason to check the inn for the injured soldier
  
• -how come someone screams for help but neither Franklin nor Brad acknowledge that someone's in trouble?
  
• -why don't the evil guys attack the injured soldier as well? he's the primary person who knows the information right?
  
• -making the girl fight against her will and it being "Romanica's only option" is stupid (for the lack of a better word)
  
• -Audrey changes her mind too quick. she doesn't even know Brad or Franklin yet she's willing to fight with them
  
• -how are three people supposed to change the tide of a full waging war?
  
• -no sense of direction after the Mayor cutscene
  

After the cutscene with the mayor, I just gave up. The story was too generic, the battle was too easy and I felt like I had no idea what I was doing because there was a lack of direction. To be honest, this game plays like a perverted 8 year old who just got RPG Maker and decided to make their very first game. I'm not trying to offend you but the errors with this game are too grand to miss. If you're planning on making a commercial game out of this, I suggest you play other successful RM games and find out what made/makes them so good. Also, plan out what you're going to do next because this game feels rushed.

As I said, I don't mean to offend you. I simply think that there's a HUGE room for improvement and you should focus on the story and dialogue a little more. I expected more from a game that began with XP a couple of years ago that had time to be improved enough in ACE.

I hope I helped you in some way. Sorry I didn't finish the game but it didn't grab me into the story enough for me to keep playing. :/

Thanks for playing!

I totally agree with you about Brad and Audrey changing their minds way too quickly. I'll work on this.

What do you mean by there is a lack of direction? I've made sure in every plot cut scene you will be directly told what to do next.

The villains wanted to kill the Mayor for a better effect on the community. Big deal if they kill a soldier. If they kill a political figure and the people are losing in the war then the citizens may become more scared or give up quickly.

Thanks for finding spelling errors! I'll fix them as well!

I'm sorry you didn't like the game.

I have planned out what I want to do next for the next 3 or 4 hours of the game.

spelling errors:in memphis soldier says recovoerary, man says plea take my antidote, unknowns sentence is cut off,

in the boss fight audrey joins in, but her sprite is missing,

mayor rox tells audrey her power is combinded, then after dialogue the mayor just dissapears?

By the way I didnt actually have the antidote in my inventory, because i found this out to late, I died -.- At that point i stopped playing. How much is left in the demo ahead of me, i just confronted edge and lost to his lackey.

Overall I like the feel of the game, it could use some fixes but thats obviously what a demo and feedback is meant for. My only real suggestion would be to fix the battlers being in mid-air, and the pervert angle of it. I get it perversion is normal but I think its more on the side of being nasty than ha-ha funny. You may or may not take my advice, however this is just my 2 cents.

Mapping is pretty good so far, keep it up and don't get discouraged.

Oh and..... lol edge & christian, I see what you did there

There is a bit more after confronting Edge. You will get one more party member and will battle Edge at the nation's castle(capital).

Thanks for finding more spelling errors. I'll fix them!

The battle system is pre set to do that. The only ways to resolve the problem is to no use battlebacks or to find a new free commercial script.

You can also buy antidotes at Memphis's shop!

@Everyone

I don't like giving spoilers. There is a reason behind Franklin's behavior. I will tell Rgansta in private if you want to know. No offense to everyone. I am only willing to give Rgangsta spoilers because he has been a very good friend for a long time.

 

[SLEEP]

Your project looks generic, but not too bad, until you get to the part where you have a woman who literally rapes men to death. what the swear word