Deploying the fanservice?

[Dragnfly]

*for this topic, I mean fanservice in the T&A sense*

Having just finished off HtoL#NiQ and I'll likely finish off Chrome Wolf on my next commute, I started up Hypderdevotion Noire Goddess Black Heart and it got me thinking about fanservice, as Nep games always do. Basically, I haven't seen as much in RM as I figured I would. People seem to either play it squeeky clean or just go all out and make a porn game. I read some of the old topics on this and formed a belief that what mainly kept casual fanservice on the low in RM games was because it usually requires custom art and many people don't do that much (or feel uncomfortable asking for someone to make it) but now I'm not really so sure that's the case. As I've been playing more and more western-made RM games I'm seeing more and more use busts and paper dolls or whatever. We also seem to all have a pretty heft knowledge of jRPGs so I don't think too many people would be embarrassed to say "can I commission a conveniently censored shower CG for my game?"

While my current project isn't near Compile Heart levels of fanservice it does have some minor stuff. It just made me wonder if there's something I'm not seeing.

 

[Warpmind]

actually goes quite far in explaining the issue.
It's not a matter of the engine; it's a matter of European/American culture vs. Japanese culture. Well, primarily so, at any rate.

 

[nio kasgami]

that's totally depends of the audience culture...

in japan they seem to apreciate "fanservice"

but we have to know fanservice are also somewhat Jokes made by the creator...

but we have also to take in consideration....this actually because a fanservice are Pervert.

so this why we should avoid this into the rm forums where...they have a lots of kids who frequent our forum so I don't think you should add "fanservice" in your game.

Also this fun for japanese audience because we don't have to deny a lot of them are actually pervert (no offense to the current japanese who read this) 

BUT I don't deny us occidental people are not pervert to XD!

but fanservices is a lot less popular for occidental because we mainly target for the "story" and not for the "graphics" 

EDIT : but if you intend to do fanservice in your game let's me explain how to implement them without scrapping your game *wear is mangaka hat* 

1. Never show your heroine having a boyfriend or people will lost is interest in her and think she expose her skin for nothing 
2. generally reveal body part but never show the s*x part or this will automaticly turn into Hentai
3. don't overdo on the skin exposure...if you to much often show skin this will totally annoying a lot of people who maybe just intend to play the game for the story
4. don't extend to much the time of fanservices or people will think you will make this for the people who only want to play your game for the bewbs
5. censor the level of your fanservices for be able to be see by the require people ages

 

[Dragnfly]

I've seen that video (I love that guy) and while I do fully agree and have experience with what he says I think western jrpg and anime fans also need to be considered for what I'm talking about. I see people mention anime and jRPGs here so I know they're familiar with it and sites with RM resources. And westerners don't seem to have a problem with mature content or topics (though that mysterious western "ok to show a man gutted but cleave is a big no-no" thing might come into play). So it just struck me as odd to see people who watch anime and employ mature content not use fanservice. It made me think I was missing something.

 

[nio kasgami]

hum but I will ask a question to you : D ! 

do you think your game REALLY need fan service c: ?

 

[Warpmind]

To extrapolate on the video - it's not that it's an unfamiliar phenomenon to us Westerners, as it were - it's just that, well, we're just less prone to purposeless gratuitous displays of lingerie, it seems. It seems to me that in most of the cases where gratuitous displays of sparsely covered womanflesh occurs in a setting where it's not appropriate (such as the beach, for example), it's specifically to draw attention to and/or to sell something.

Comparably, American-made games are generally better at/more likely to be displaying gratuitous firearms violence, something Japanese and European games seem to be less apt at.

I'm not immediately sure if there's a comparable European strong suit in the same sense - and in fact, I rather doubt there is; if anything, such niches would more likely be more national specialties, such as, say, British comedy (which, after all, remains pretty much a class of its own).

 

[Dragnfly]

do you think your game REALLY need fan service c: ?

Yes. Mind you, like I said it's very light. It mostly just comes from the shape of the characters (a personal philosophy of mine in regards to hotness) and looking over my roster none of them are showing much skin in their usual outfits except for an unintentionally high amount of leg LOL. The fanservice bits are fully clothed with the exception of one. And nobody's accidentally spilling a huge tub of mayo all over the girls either.

I'm not immediately sure if there's a comparable European strong suit in the same sense - and in fact, I rather doubt there is; if anything, such niches would more likely be more national specialties, such as, say, British comedy (which, after all, remains pretty much a class of its own).

You make a great point with this vs the American and Japanese niches. It's something I thought about before, being Canadian (British ancestry) and wishing the world had a view of North America similar to how they view Europe. But I'd think that, regarding RM, we're niche gamers before we're Canadian/Norweigan/etc.

I guess it's just a thing in the RM community that fanservice isn't common. I hope I don't get a bad reputation for using a little.

 

[nio kasgami]

then that's totally different!

this not a kind of fan service who are  shameful this not like you was doing like in the anime or manga where you almost see bewbs everywhere

I would most call this make your character "prettier" 

but I don't think this will bother the artists to draw this kind of "fanservices" 

 

[Dragnfly]

I know it won't bother the people who do the art for me because one has been with the project off and on for over a decade and the other draws superhero comics which are full of busty women in leotards sticking their butts in the camera so a busty woman in an outfit similar to an ao dai sticking her butt in the camera isn't really any different.

Does anyone know of any games people here have made that use fanservice? I've never encountered one but I've only played a drop in the bucket compared to what's on RM community sites (and mostly horror games which, come to think of it, have only had fanservice if they're Japanese origin). If there literally aren't any then I'd be truly amazed.

 

[nio kasgami]

the only somewhat "rm" games who follow this patterns is Corpse party I heard this was pretty fanservice haha

 

[Dragnfly]

I love the Corpse Party games. I only ever played the PSP remakes though so I'm unsure if the original had as much (which isn't a lot, btw. People just make a big deal of it). The original PC98 game used it's own engine but the first remake, Corpse Party Rebuilt, was made with RM XP.

Alas, Corpse Party is Japanese origin. I'm asking for examples from the western RM community since I know Asian examples are abundant. Sorry, I should have made that more clear.

 

[Simon D. Aelsi]

Fanservice? What fanservice?! I thought ALL ladies' armors were bras with pointy things? 

My feeble attempt at sarcasm humor. Don't kill me.

 

[Probotector 200X]

I dislike the term "fanservice", it implies something that isn't necessarily true.

I don't know. Does intent actually matter? Should it matter?

I don't create babes with bikini armor or shirtless hunks for "fanservice", I do that because I think they look cool.

I mean, come on.

 

[kerbonklin]

If there's one thing that correlates the Japanese to their production of fanservice, it's the term "subtle". Japanese games (or really any form of media/stories) are VERY known for being subtle in their topics, never being grotesque/gore but instead moderate/sensible. If you've ever played Silent Hill 2, you'll know what I mean by this when it comes to how they handle the Horror genre, being very subtle. Fanservice shares the same properties.

 

[Dragnfly]

Subtle like Genocyber for violence or Ar Tonelico 3 for fanservice.

 

[Chaos Avian]

Well they have to cater for the multiple target market...? I have to agree with Dragnfly's comment of Ar Tonelico 3 (it really didn't need THAT amount of "fanservice", 1 and 2 sold just fine). Plus Senran Kagura at times can be questionable, playing that in public can lead to some quite shameful looks from others despite being a fun beat em up. 

But in any case, the genre is what really defines what level of fanservice said media gives. Compare Highschool DxD and Aquarion EVOL (ugh, I'm actually using Aquarion as a reference...), or even Sakura Trick and Yuri Kuma Arashi. At least that's what I think.

As for fanservice in RM games, because of most of the genres and as Dragnfly said, lack of custom art fanservice isn't really on list. Though I can guarantee if they were more VNs made on RM fanservice would quite likely increase.  

 

[LostFonDrive]

I feel like in Japanese games they tend to take the fanservice and looks aspect too far, but in Western games it's the opposite problem - they're too ugly. I'd take the former over the latter.

 

[Mage Heart]

I'd like to see more male fanservice.

 

[trouble time]

Well they have to cater for the multiple target market...? I have to agree with Dragnfly's comment of Ar Tonelico 3 (it really didn't need THAT amount of "fanservice", 1 and 2 sold just fine). Plus Senran Kagura at times can be questionable, playing that in public can lead to some quite shameful looks from others despite being a fun beat em up. 

Ha, I was just playing Senran Kagura at work.

On topic, the reason we don't really do much fanservice is...I really don't know. Well, there are times it can be over done, Senran Kagura WAY over does it to the point I think it might even be a sort of parody. I really think one of the reasons is people associate fan-service with bad writing. Most fan-service heavy series do tend to be pretty weak in the writing department and for some reason you WILL see people blame fan-service for bad writing, as if they'd fill the series with a Renaissance architecture and Jungian themes when in general it would just resort in a story with fewer pages. Not to mention sometimes that bad writing ends us up with characters who are nothing but fan-service and again removing fan service is  the same as removing the character entirely cause they're basically just a rock in the background.

 

[Wavelength]

Just gonna spout my thoughts here.  They might not be representative of most JRPG/Anime fans.  I don't know.  But it's one perspective, so maybe that will be helpful.

I don't enjoy fanservice when it feels "exploitative" to the character or when it feels strictly unnecessary.  These take me out of the experience and make me feel very uncomfortable.  One of the quickest ways to turn me off of an anime is to like... have a gust of wind blow by, reveal a girl's panties, have all the guys in the area get firehose nosebleeds, and then have the girl get angry at everyone.  Like... how am I supposed to feel about that?  Did I just take advantage of her?  I don't like that feeling, and it removes me from any connection I had with the characters.

And while it wasn't as moronic as the examples above, fanservice on a character like Mai in Mai-HiME just seemed kind of exploitative.  You only see it when she's alone, totally private... and yet I'm looking in as a viewer?  I feel voyeuristic doing this.  Persona 4 is an interesting example because I felt totally fine with the light fanservice offered by the cheerful, knowingly shameless flirt Rise, but less so when the shy and self-aware Yukiko was in the same scene.

On the other hand, when sex and nudity handled in a more mature, realistic way, I find myself liking it.  NANA did it pretty well, and really tied the tone of the sex into the characters and the emotions that were running in the moment.  You could even say it wasn't fanservice, because the show would have strictly been less if it were missing these sexual bits.