Directional Passability Question

[thepsyche]

Hi everyone,

Somewhat excited to be asking my first question in relation to any variety of RPG Maker! I had a google and a search through the forum, but I couldn't find anything that addressed the problem I'm having specifically. I apologize if I've completely missed it - because it does strike me as something that must be asked commonly.

Anyway, I followed the three-part guide to parallax mapping for beginners by fallenlorelei and found it very helpful. But as it seems the player's area in which they can walk must be determined by region using this method, it created a problem for me where the player can walk from one level of elevation to another via the side of a cliff, pictured:




The tile highlighted by the white box is an area the player should be able to roam, as should the tile to the left of it. The problem is, the player should not be able to pass through the side of the cliff to get to the left tile, but with mapping the player's walking area with region, they can. I think what I'm inquiring about is directional passability, which upon my first search, seems to be determined by the properties of tiles themselves. However, because entire map technically a parallax background, the properties of the tiles do not exist on this map. 

Now, I could go and re-tile the parts of the cliff where they shouldn't be passable, but if I leave the player's walking region on in these areas, it makes no difference. If I remove it, the player can't walk on those tiles anyway. I gather there must be an obvious solution for this as plenty of people must make parallax maps using this method (or perhaps the method I've been using is outdated, I don't know) - so what is commonly accepted as the best way of getting around this? Failing that, what is the *easiest* way?


Thanks very much!

 

[fallenlorelei]

Holy crap! That's me!


I am totally going to answer this question with an edit. Hold up.


Edit: Alright so I am actually not a pro at parallax mapping (despite how I present myself in the videos, haha) so I might be wrong here. Whenever I am presented with this problem, I use the easy way: put a stone there or something. Usually when I parallax, I still have the tileset available with passability settings in-tact, and can fill in any "issues" like that.


What I used to do was make a tileset of completely transparent styles, and make my own passability settings. Like this. And still do this if I need to. You can fill in the spot with a transparent tile with specific passability settings. (I didn't do this for the videos because the region restrictions plugin was much easier to explain.)


Another way to fix this is, as you said, re-tile it by moving the cliff over to the right but stop it in the middle of the tile. I had to do this recently when I mapped with a fence. The fence was meant to stop a user on one side, but not on the other. So instead of filling the entire side of the fence with stones - I just moved the fence to the middle of the tile.


In any case, this is a big issue when it comes to parallax mapping, and it drives me nuts. I am hoping at some point someone will be able to make "half" tiles (like the shadow tiles) and make those unpassable, then just fill one side with those half-tiles. I don't know if those actually exist, though.


Good luck!

 

[thepsyche]

Hey - your tutorial was awesome btw. 

 

[fallenlorelei]

Hey - your tutorial was awesome btw. 

Thank you!!


That tutorial is really old. It's using "bindpicturestomap" hahaha. And then my "fix" uses Kaus, who everyone hates now. Use Orange Overlay! I wonder if I should update everything again.

 

[thepsyche]

@fallenlorelei actually I do use Orange Overlay, I went and searched for something when you mentioned in the vid the save map image option doesn't export to the correct size.

Um, sorry can you elaborate on the transparent tile idea? That sounds like the best option - but I'm not sure on how you assign properties / directions to tiles?

EDIT: Just a thought - is it possible to get regions to work in conjunction with the transparent tiles so that you only have to make a few tweaks per map?

EDIT AGAIN: Wait! I figured it out. It's accessed in the tile menu. They do work in conjunction and it is a beautiful thing. Thank you!!!

Please continue to make tutorials, they are very clear, not overwhelming and easy to understand.

 

[fallenlorelei]

@fallenlorelei actually I do use Orange Overlay, I went and searched for something when you mentioned in the vid the save map image option doesn't export to the correct size.

Um, sorry can you elaborate on the transparent tile idea? That sounds like the best option - but I'm not sure on how you assign properties / directions to tiles?

EDIT: Just a thought - is it possible to get regions to work in conjunction with the transparent tiles so that you only have to make a few tweaks per map?

EDIT AGAIN: Wait! I figured it out. It's accessed in the tile menu. They do work in conjunction and it is a beautiful thing. Thank you!!!

Please continue to make tutorials, they are very clear, not overwhelming and easy to understand.

@thepsycheYou're welcome!!


Sometimes you'll find even the tiles don't work to your liking (it should work in this case though??). Also - the tiles I linked only work for VX/Ace - just resize them for MV - but you probably figured that out, haha.

 

[thepsyche]

@fallenlorelei Apparently I lie, and there is no relationship between regions and passability settings for tiles. Unless of course I'm doing it wrong. If I label a tile with a certain region, and I'm using YEP region restrictions - does that then mean the properties go out the window?

 

[Andar]

There are several ways to set passability with parallax mapping - regions are just the easiest way and for that reason only used by many beginners.


The better (but also more complex) way to handle passability is to use an invisible tileset.


You make two tilesheets for the B-Tab, one completely transparent and one containing symbols for passability (both the regular passabilities X O and * and arrows for directional passability).


You begin by placing the symbol tilesheet in a tileset that you'll use on every parallax map, and place the passability settings of those tiles to be like the symbols used there.


Then you place the passability symbols on your parallax map, giving each grid position the passability you want there (including directional passabilities and even the ceiling passabilities if you use an additional symbolsheet for the A4 tiles)


The symbols will show you where you already placed which passability and where you still need to place something.


Work with those symbol sheets until the game is finished, then just before deployment you exchange the symbol tilesheets in the tileset definition with the completely transparent sheets, making the symbols vanish but keeping the tiles with the passability settings.


You only have to remember to change back to the symbol sheets before editing the map passability again, because you won't see what passability is placed where without the symbols.

 

[thepsyche]

Thanks @Andar. I was hoping there was a way you could get the best of both worlds, by laying out your general walking area with regions, and then using passability tiles for the alcoves and whatnot, but it seems the two do not work in unison. Cheers.

 

[Andar]

@thepsyche It depends on the script/plugin you're using for region function - if that plugin allows for the combination of both, then that will work - if that plugin overrides regular passability then it won't.


But where do you see the advantage of using regions over the use of invisible tiles? the only difference is a bit more preparation for the tileset method, but if you do you have the full power of tileset passability plus keeping the region IDs free for other uses, and there is absolutely no difference between placing a tile and placing a region ID in the editor...

 

[thepsyche]

Thanks for the reply @Andar In answer to your question, because from my (newbie) point of view - it does take out a bit of double-handling.With going full-tile, you're going  to have to go over a map with transparent tiles and arrows, not being able to see the map without arrows all over it when you test play, and then when you're ready to export get rid of them all again. As opposed to that, I could just drag a region over all normal-walkable areas and just use a few transparent tiles here and there for the tweaks, which may only be a handful of tiles per map.


I just did have a thought though - I suppose you could use transparent tiles with arrows on one map, and then switch tilesets to quickly testplay if they were configured correctly (unless I haven't thought that through properly). Maybe that's what you were trying to explain in your post above. I had a quick google for transparent directional tile sets made specifically for MV, but I can't anything - do you know of any that exist?