Do we need commercial rights to enter the contest? (Updated with Permission List!)

[Tibletoad]

Yes that is treu , did not think about that for a moment.

But that leaves me to wonder the casino has those rights but not the players  and the players are winning money from them.

The contest is not a certain money quarantee.

It is why i also  added the  quarter example , is that also commercial if i make money by picking it up  while wearing nike shoes?

The quarter is also not a guarantee, i dont know if i will find money  on the street when i go out .

same as that i dont know if i will win the money price when i enter the contest.

A youtube video is  a bigger guarentee as it will make you money guarenteed everytime somebody watches it and gets the add.

If every contestand would get a money price just for entering then it would be commercial as they are certain to gain from it.

is it more clear now Sharm ?

I am doing a lot of one on on translation from dutch....

 

[Tommy Gun]

This isn't true at all. Simply stating "non-commercial" doesn't mean much of anything by itself legally, a creator can define that however they want and put whatever stipulations they want on it.

 
You took that out of context--directly above that I said they can define their terms however they want. But then I specifically said: "If they release a script as "non-commercial", and that's it, they're using a legal term" -- if they do not define their terms at all, and simply state "non-commercial", then we can only go by the legal definition. If they say, "call me for terms," then that's obviously a different story.

The creator could also change their mind however and whenever they wanted and it would be the responsibility of the person using the content to prove that they had that permission at the time they used it. This is one reason why contracts are such a big deal.

Right. If they released it as "free for commercial," and then changed their terms after you started using it, you can still use it (at least that's how CC works). But yes, you may have to prove it if it goes to court. This thread really isn't about changing terms midway through, though.

 

[Sharm]

@Tibletoad:  Yes, I do understand now, thank you.  It still isn't the same thing though, using a product that has artwork isn't the same thing as using an artwork.  If you buy a book you can sell that book to someone else, but you can't sell the text in the book to a new publisher or put that text into a creative writing contest.  As for the other issue, the fact that the money isn't a guarantee, that is true but it doesn't actually matter.  Putting a game out to sell is no guarantee that it'll actually make money either.

@Tommy Gun: I get what you're saying now, but "non-commercial" still doesn't mean all that much by itself.  It's legally grey and would need further definitions regardless of how the material was used.  It just usually doesn't matter because it would only come up if the creator had issues with how you used it.

 

[??????]

Personally, I would prefer they require commercial usage rights. Then I can stop people from using my scripts in their entries. MWAHAHAHAHAHAAAA....

 

[Tommy Gun]

@Tommy Gun: I get what you're saying now, but "non-commercial" still doesn't mean all that much by itself.  It's legally grey and would need further definitions regardless of how the material was used.  It just usually doesn't matter because it would only come up if the creator had issues with how you used it.

Fair enough. This is why I really wish there were a lawyer on the forum who could weigh in on this. Also, I really wish creators were better about very clearly stating their terms in each script. Some are great about it.


I contacted Hime about using his scripts, and will post his reply if I get one.

 

[Lunarea]

@Tommy Gun:

Since a significant amount of money is on the line here for the winner, your best bet would be to contact the resource authors. And while I understand that you want to be covered legally, there's more than just the legality at play.

Having the kind of negative feedback that an offended resource author can bring puts a mark against your reputation, your project's reputation and so on. It is much, much simpler if you ask for permission and the author is aware that their work is going to be in the contest.

 

[Vexed]

If every contestand would get a money price just for entering then it would be commercial as they are certain to gain from it.

Every contestant is getting a prize to an extent. Every entrant get's $10 to spend on a product in the forum store. Granted it's not $10,000 but it is a guaranteed prize.

 

[Tibletoad]

Indeed better be safe then sorry , maybe have them set up a contract or something that you can save on your pc to show you have their permission.

 

[Tibletoad]

Every contestant is getting a prize to an extent. Every entrant get's $10 to spend on a product in the forum store. Granted it's not $10,000 but it is a guaranteed prize.

Really ? i missed that  part to be honest , and in that case it could be concidered a form of commerialism.

 

[Tommy Gun]

I got a reply from Hime, and updated the first post. If anyone contacts anyone else, please post the reply.

 

[Tsukihime]

So the rules says

You must have the right to use all assets, tools, and anything else involved in the creation of the game, such as the engine/software, visual resources, music, and so forth. Pre-existing assets are allowed as long as the actual game was not started before May 29th at 12:00am UTC.

I mean, I guess someone could argue that the resource owner unfortunately decided to write "non-commercial" without thinking about the legal consequences.


And because of that, they are free of any sort of financial obligation and have full rights to use the resources regardless of what the resource owner actually says.


I'm sure if you took it to court, the fact that the original script says non-commercial would go in favor of the user, but really, if the resource owner goes to the contest judges and says he has no recollection of this person ever given any permission to use it, do you want to risk a month of work?

 

[Shion Kreth]

So the rules says

I mean, I guess someone could argue that the resource owner unfortunately decided to write "non-commercial" without thinking about the legal consequences.

And because of that, they are free of any sort of financial obligation and have full rights to use the resources regardless of what the resource owner actually says.

I'm sure if you took it to court, the fact that the original script says non-commercial would go in favor of the user, but really, if the resource owner goes to the contest judges and says he has no recollection of this person ever given any permission to use it, do you want to risk a month of work?

I'd like to think people aren't trying to take advantage of anyone and just want to do right by the various coders and artists but simply don't know if the contest constitutes a commercial endeavor or not.

 

[Sharm]

If anyone contacts anyone else, please post the reply.

Celianna has given permission through her status feed.

Yes you can use my tiles in the Indie Game Contest, for those who are asking.

My stuff free to use stuff was already okay for commercial so I'm betting no one cares about that.

 

[Tommy Gun]

I mean, I guess someone could argue that the resource owner unfortunately decided to write "non-commercial" without thinking about the legal consequences.

For the record, I'm still of the opinion that this contest IS commercial-use, so even in that event it would side with the Owner. We got into a lot of hypotheticals in this thread.

Celianna has given permission through her status feed.

Great, added to OP, thanks! Btw, if any Mods want to edit my first post to add more, go right ahead.

 

[Deckiller]

Hi guys. First off, our apologies: after some discussion with Lunarea, it has come to my attention that some clarification is needed regarded "commercial" vs. "non-commercial". Some resource developers may consider contest entries to be commercial games due to the potential monetary gain.

Ultimately, the contest cannot dictate what resource developers consider to be commercial and non-commercial projects. For example, if a programmer releases their scripts for non-commercial use, they could still deem a contest entry as commercial and forbid it from appearing in the game. We cannot interfere in that matter.

As we have said, it is up to you to obtain the permission and rights to use all assets. Even if we (the judges and contest runners) consider contest entries non-commercial, the resources creators may not, and we are not in the business of making such decisions for them. To avoid controversy, it is highly recommended that you obtain permission to use ANY assets in the contest that are not free for commercial use, because the asset creators might consider your contest entry to be commercial
and this could cause friction later on.

This does not affect the RPG Maker DLC and RTP, which are free for both commercial and non-commercial use (as long as they're used in RPG Maker XP/VX/VX Ace/IG Maker/Manga Maker and you can legally use said software).

We will be updating the guidelines to clarify this matter.

IN SHORT: if a resource says it's free for only NON-commercial use, be sure to contact the creator to avoid controversy later on!

 

[Tibletoad]

So to make it clear for me

IF i buy it in the forum store i can use it commercial and non-commercial ?

So thedlc i got from the humble bundle is  that too?

 

[slimmmeiske2]

Yes, Tibletoad.

 

[Tommy Gun]

IN SHORT: if a resource says it's free for only NON-commercial use, be sure to contact the creator to avoid controversy later on!

Thank you for clearing it up -- I added a link to your post in the OP!

 

[Sharm]

Updates to permissions list:


Scythuz posted this in his resource thread.

Just to clarify, there's no need to ask permission to use my music in the indie game contest. I won't count it as commercial use, so worry about making your games, not asking permission.

Lunarea gave permission on her blog.

Yes, you may use my resources (both from this blog and from the official forums) in your entries for the 2014 Indie Game contest at no charge. Please make sure that you're crediting me as well as any other people/companies mentioned in my credits and TOS. I would also appreciate a link to my blog.

 

[Shion Kreth]

Good to see some people being so generous with their resources.