Do you care about "bulk items" for immersion?

[Dymdez]

For immersive purposes, what's your opinion on adding "bulk items."

For example, you're on a pirate ship, you open a crate. Now, we could just put relevant items (crafting items, low level weapons, etc..) but what's your opinion on ALSO adding stuff that would be in there that the player has no use for? If yes, do you make it clear they are bulk items?

 

[Ms Littlefish]

Why not give it a use? Even if just as selling scraps. Adding junk doesn't sound appealing for any purpose. Make relevant items immersive instead.

 

[Andar]

Either that, or just give them as a text message "found three wraps of sail cloth" or "seven iron ingods from a smithy - to heavy to carry" or so.

If someone remembers the "Avernum" or "Geneforge" series from Spiderweb, they used junk (value=0) and the flag "NY" (= not yours) for the items that would be found on buildings but should not give the player money.

I prefer to give fitting text messages instead of simple "empty", but that is a lot more work...

 

[erikmidnatt]

a junk yard would have junk so it makes sense. A messy ship could have a mix of useful and worthless items that might be appropriate for the setting. Make some of them funny, but make sure any useless ones are easily noted as such. So part of the gameplay would be searching and sorting the junk from the good.

Don't make people think they should hold something that is never of value. That's just mean.

 

[Nirwanda]

I assume you mean things like forks, plates, sheets...right? Spiderweb software has a lot of those in their games, and frankly people always complain about them.

I wouldn't add them as I think there are less annoying ways to increase immersion, but if I did, I'd probably just write something like "this item is only good for selling" or something like that in their description.

 

[BadMinotaur]

There's good and bad parts to this approach.

The good is that you can assign trash items a monetary value and have them stand in for dull, boring gold. And maybe there's someone in the world who collects junk for a reward? (of course then you might run into the "broom dungeon" problem: http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2011/11/14/thulsa-broom)

And trash is good for world-building. It gives players a sense of what's going on around them, even the mundane parts.

The bad is that if you do this you run into a problem where it's not exciting opening containers in your game. Oblivion was especially bad for this -- I remember opening everything possible in my excitement, but soon found that if it wasn't a chest, it was going to be Yet Another Cheese Wheel or Yet Another Tongs.

 

[Silent Darkness]

Junk items......I dunno. I'm leaning towards no. If you want to put mundane items in there, give them SOME use. For example, make them bartering for certain NPCs who won't use gold. For example, a witch who will give you one poison antidote for every blue crystal you bring her, for example.

Or a crafting system. Crafting systems are cool.

 

[Dymdez]

Why not give it a use? Even if just as selling scraps. Adding junk doesn't sound appealing for any purpose. Make relevant items immersive instead.

I was afraid of this answer haha. Of course you can give them a use, but then they would not be bulk items. I am asking explicitly about items with no use. Unless you are saying these types of items should not be in your game. That's a reasonable proposal, the only downside is that it's less immersive to open a large crate and find two berries in it

Either that, or just give them as a text message "found three wraps of sail cloth" or "seven iron ingods from a smithy - to heavy to carry" or so.

If someone remembers the "Avernum" or "Geneforge" series from Spiderweb, they used junk (value=0) and the flag "NY" (= not yours) for the items that would be found on buildings but should not give the player money.

I prefer to give fitting text messages instead of simple "empty", but that is a lot more work...

This is a lot of work, but it's a solid idea. I do like the simple 'empty' sometimes if it means saving me time, though!

a junk yard would have junk so it makes sense. A messy ship could have a mix of useful and worthless items that might be appropriate for the setting. Make some of them funny, but make sure any useless ones are easily noted as such. So part of the gameplay would be searching and sorting the junk from the good.

Don't make people think they should hold something that is never of value. That's just mean.

Sorting junk seems like bad gameplay hahaha Regarding your second point, would you blatantly indicate that something is a bulk item within its description?

I assume you mean things like forks, plates, sheets...right? Spiderweb software has a lot of those in their games, and frankly people always complain about them.

I wouldn't add them as I think there are less annoying ways to increase immersion, but if I did, I'd probably just write something like "this item is only good for selling" or something like that in their description.

Yes, bulk item, to me, means an item with no serious value or use that is simply present because of its appropriateness. Yes, I am trying to locate the fine line between immersive and annoying I do like that indication idea "Sell only." I remember some games doing it.

There's good and bad parts to this approach.

The good is that you can assign trash items a monetary value and have them stand in for dull, boring gold. And maybe there's someone in the world who collects junk for a reward? (of course then you might run into the "broom dungeon" problem: http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2011/11/14/thulsa-broom)

And trash is good for world-building. It gives players a sense of what's going on around them, even the mundane parts.

The bad is that if you do this you run into a problem where it's not exciting opening containers in your game. Oblivion was especially bad for this -- I remember opening everything possible in my excitement, but soon found that if it wasn't a chest, it was going to be Yet Another Cheese Wheel or Yet Another Tongs.

Tongs and cheese wheel LMFAO!! hahahah thats EXACTLY what I was thinking about. I couldnt get your link to work || -- I agree re: world building

 

[Ms Littlefish]

Maybe I'm not understanding your concept of bulk items. To me bulk items are things you collect a lot of and might find strewn about more practical drop items like weapons and potions. That is not an issue. It's the "no use," part. I don't think finding something to do with x99 berries will nullify their status of bulk item. Make a tasty pie when you return to town.

Finding berries won't break immersion if berries belong in your game. Finding a PS4 as a drop item in a world without electricity breaks immersion. 

 

[Milennin]

First you'll have to give me a good reason why your game's protagonist bothers picking up and carrying that junk with him. Because to me it's more immersion breaking when my guy who's on a quest to save the world from a demon invasion is carrying a rusty spoon, a rotting wooden plank, a broken shard of glass and collects a bunch of cobwebs to keep in his inventory.

 

[bgillisp]

What I've done is early game, when the party members had no weapons, they might grab that stuff, as even whacking a monster with a broom is better than no weapon at all.

Otherwise, I usually put silly remarks like "You find a set of China. Since you don't intend to serve a 4 course meal right here in the middle of the dungeon, you leave the set of China where you found it."

 

[EternalShadow]

I assume you mean things like forks, plates, sheets...right? Spiderweb software has a lot of those in their games, and frankly people always complain about them.

Because it's always the same item/set of three/four items

 

[Kes]

It's the same as jokes - funny the first time, moderately amusing the second, slight smile the third time, and then it gets tedious.  And as Milennnin says, why would I want to be carrying all that around with me anyway?

But actually I disagree with the premise of your question.  I am not personally convinced that this is the way to build immersion in the first place.

 

[erikmidnatt]

Otherwise, I usually put silly remarks like "You find a set of China. Since you don't intend to serve a 4 course meal right here in the middle of the dungeon, you leave the set of China where you found it."

Stuff like this is good.

I get the idea of making it where some items you find in the game are not useful. I don't think everything you find should be even worth a menial herb or potion. Because when the worst then you ever find is a potion, that potion becomes junk in peoples mind. "Oh, only got a potion."

If there are things you can't collect or unusable sword when you do find the potion it becomes "At least I got a potion".

EDIT: After a reread I do see you want them to collect the items. Hmm, I wouldn't do much of that really. That would be annoying.

 

[Vox Novus]

The elder scrolls series does this well since it immerses you in the world in such a big way. One key thing though is that the player can choose when to pick these junk objects up, they never have to pick up forks and bowls  for no reason or to get to more valuable objects. These junk objects can also be used to decorate houses with if the player so chooses or can be sold for very small increments of money.

Sometimes they are used as a way to add small elements of humor into the game as well.

 

[Dymdez]

It's the same as jokes - funny the first time, moderately amusing the second, slight smile the third time, and then it gets tedious.  And as Milennnin says, why would I want to be carrying all that around with me anyway?

But actually I disagree with the premise of your question.  I am not personally convinced that this is the way to build immersion in the first place.

It surely can be a factor, as VampVox said above, Elder Scrolls really nails this part. But I suppose TES is a bit different in that the items are entirely ignorable.

 

[Chaos Avian]

Depending on how you go about your game, you could have your characters "repurposing" junk altogether. For example I have an engineer/ inventor class and she'll be able to make good use of what other call "junk" and turn them into useful skills/ weapons/ armour. That's a way I'd go about it least, as well as some flavour text~

 

[Galenmereth]

If we're talking about immersion you have to be vary of a lot of finer details, even cultural things. Like from my Norwegian perspective it would be pretty immersion-breaking if I found a bunch of loose carrots in a supermarket, because here you can only buy carrots prepackaged and pre-washed in plastic containers these days. Unless it's a farmer's market, then it's alright if they're just loose unwashed carrots.

 

[Dymdez]

That's a level of depth I will never be able to address. Bless you. I don't even know of games that consider these types of details. Am i wrong here?

 

[Galenmereth]

Did I sneeze? Thank you anyway though. And it's probably fine to ignore the finer details like this as there are usually far bigger fish to fry when it comes to itemization and immersion. Like a pristine non-rotten apple next to a hundred year old skeleton and their last mad scribbles on the wall, behind locked bars where the key is rusted and was hidden in the pocket of a troll who lived on the other side of the forest.