Do you let Barbarians wear armor?

[jonthefox]

I'm finding that no matter how I slice it (giving them more agility, giving them more stamina/mp, giving them more atk dmg) the inability to wear heavy armor makes Barbarians a clearly weaker class than Knights in my game.  And, I guess both in real life and in my game's world, this would be true:  armor provides a significant physical combat advantage; that's why it came into existence and evolved.

I like having the mechanics of my game match its backstory and lore, so it wouldn't make sense if barbarians could wear heavy armor; as barbarian tribes would not have access to this, nor would barbarian culture approve of its use.   Maybe I could have them wear light and medium armor, just not the heaviest/most protective armor.  Another issue is the sprite I use for barbarians shows them as unarmored warriors:

 

[optimum45]

Knights are clad in heavy armor to absorb damage, and carry shields to mitigate damage and gain advantage.  They are, by and large, the stereotype tanker.  If you want a lighter armored barbarian to be a tanker, you would have to give them different ways to mitigate damage.  In my case, I would go with enhanced evasion and debilitating strikes (Debuffs) to cover the damage mitigation end.

 

[Eschaton]

They don't necessarily need to be barred from wearing armor.  What makes a barbarian stand out is its "high risk, high reward" gameplay style.  What you really need to do is design the class so that it can do a lot of damage, but incurs a lot of damage, and ensure there are ways for a skilled player to mitigate that damage.

 

[Milennin]

Barbarians could wear leather or fur armour?

 

[Chaos Avian]

You could try pauldrons (shoulder and neck guards). Try range from leather to metal and are pretty light plus barbarians tend to wear these if they do wear armour.

 

[Bribolox]

Perhaps the answer lies in the weaponry? A barbarian could use much heavier weapons than a knight.

Also maybe you could put higher defense numbers on accessories - bracers and/or gauntlet? 

 

[Dark Horseman]

Barbarians are allowed to have shields. You could design them to be extremely proficient at parrying or blocking vice just taking less damage. You can make them a good tank by just designing and stating their style of fighting is equivalent or superior to a knight's rigid training and immobility. Warriors are stereotypically the leaders of fantasy parties who can give group buffs as well. 

If you want him to be a high risk, high reward fella, just do like everyone else does and make him go berserk or reckless so he becomes a glass cannon on call.

 

[Chaos Avian]

I wouldn't necessarily make a Barbarian a glass cannon. Judging from how they act or their stereotype, the adrenaline should keep them going even while suffering injuries. So maybe having lower defence (not glass cannon level), but have high HP. As well as having recoil damage on attacks or a skill that acts like poison but doubles power while it's active? Just a suggestion.

 

[Wavelength]

I find it surprising that you can't make them viable by giving them higher attack and agility!  A couple other ways you could try to solve the problem:

• Give Barbarians higher HP to compensate for their lower Defense
• Give Barbarians better Defense-per-level (so they naturally get a little tankier despite not wearing heavy armor)
• Lessen the gap in stats between light and heavy armor
• Make heavy equipment expensive enough so you can't reliably have it on your Knights (creating a tradeoff between the Barbarian that does more with less, and the Knight that has the highest potential power)

If none of these are feasible, just swallow your pride and let Barbarians equip heavy armor.

 

[ArcaneEli]

Make barbarians immune to death like once per battle.

Instead of dying them become immune to damage for like 3turns.

make their TP charge really fast and give them stronger skills.

 

[trouble time]

if Barbarians have different weapons than knights, you could let their weapons have defense attached to sort of show that they defend themselves by parrying/ their best defense is in their offence.

 

[Clord]

I might be wrong but barbarians were quite skilled in combat. It was their unorganized way of fighting why they had such hard time against the roman empire for example.


Barbarians during era of full plate armors probably had even harder times against more organized foes.


Barbarians could be kind of like Onion Knights from the Final Fantasy series. Class that has horrible starting stats but eventually outclasses all other classes as their personal skill grows.

 

[Wavelength]

Make barbarians immune to death like once per battle.

Instead of dying them become immune to damage for like 3turns.

make their TP charge really fast and give them stronger skills.

#BANTRYNDAMERE

 

[Probotector 200X]

I base it on the character design usually. I design characters around what types of weapons and armor they can use. Now, if I had a good way for visual equipment, things might be different.

One thing I've tried with "Barbarians" is inspiration from a Fire Emblem class. Visually, they have bare manly chests, but they wear helmets, gauntlets, and greaves. They can't use heavy BODY armor, but they can use heavy head, arm, and leg armor.

But...I tend to make heavy armor, well, heavy. Lowers speed, and evasion.

 

[Clord]

In reality the soldiers inside those heavy armors were quite damn agile. Wearing one of those things meant that you pretty much had to be a body builder. Being well rested before the combat was important for a chances to win the clash of hundreds men in a each side.

 

[Eschaton]

Don't design your class around lore and history, design it around gameplay.

What are some ways you can make a Barbarian play differently from a run-of-the-mill Warrior?

 

[jonthefox]

Well, I want the gameplay to correspond to lore and history.  The narrative and game atmosphere are integral to my project.  But I see what you mean.  I guess I'm just going to go the D&D route, where in addition to beefy amounts of HP and evasive ability (making them tankier than ordinary fighters), I'll give them the ability to Rage, which increases their combat power...and the gameplay of the barb class will mostly be about good selection of when to Rage.  

I also like what Wavelength said about "letting them do more with less" since Armor makes one fatigued, could break, etc., though I don't want to introduce tedious elements to the game...but maybe during some quests (maybe a sidequest), I could have an event where you are struck with a massive blow and your armor breaks, and you have to finish the dungeon without armor, so suddenly barbs are in a lot better of a situation than a knight would be...and various situations throughout the game where this kind of thing would come into play, even though theoretically at complete end game gear and max potential, the knight would be stronger since his heavy armor and shield would allow him for example to withstand the fire breath of a great dragon, much more than a lightly armored barb could.

Some good ideas in here, thanks everyone!

 

[Eschaton]

This is a video game. Gameplay needs to come first. Just my $0.02 USD.

 

[jonthefox]

I agree, I just don't think they are mutually exclusive in 100% of cases.  Some people enjoy games whose gameplay is guided by general principles that fall in line with the realism of that particular game world.  

For example, in this case, I noticed barbs being significantly weaker than knights, and I realized it was being caused by their (barb's) inability to wear the best armor.   This is a design problem I have.  Saying 'oh well it's a video game so just let them wear any armor' might be the easiest solution but I don't know that it's the best...I'd rather look for other ways to compensate that don't strongly conflict with the lore and backstory of the game world. 

That said, I made this thread specifically looking for other opinions, so I still thank you for your feedback.

 

[Chaos Avian]

From a gameplay stand point, I see Barbarians being an undisciplined Martial Artist/ Monk (at least stat wise with skills being a parallel as well). If that helps at all.