Kyutaru

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[IMG]http://oi39.tinypic.com/5trh9j.jpg[/IMG]​

For the past month I've been fervently working on converting the standard Ace battle system into something more recognizable to D&D fans.  Tabletop grid movement is still a long ways away but for now the following has been implemented:

- 5th edition d20 system including Advantage and Disadvantage

- Saving Throws and skill DC checks easily called by method from damage formulas for enemies or allies

- THAC0 balanced chance to hit including class proficiency bonuses and ability modifiers

- fully customizable per class, enemy, or even skill (use dex for your weapons and int for your spells!)

- hash table functioning class system that is easily extendable for adding more classes

- Critical Hit, Critical Miss, and Natural 20 systems implemented

- Roll any amount of dice with any number of sides using the roll() method (great for custom damage formulas)

- Compatible with and including Yanfly's Engine Ace and Yami's Battle Symphony with animated battlers

- Includes animated battlers!  All kinds of fantasy creatures with their own attack animations, even dragons

- Twelve custom scripted default classes, each with their own role and strengths

I'm looking for feature requests or exclusions.  What makes or breaks D&D?  What doesn't work in a battle RPG setting?  What rules can be sacrificed for the betterment of the player?

Since players can't move their units around a grid (yet) things like aggro and AOE effects already need to adapt.  How would you like to see them adapted and what other rules do you think require adaptation?  Leave your comments for consideration, the project is ongoing.

Note: This core mechanic adaptation will use the newest 5th edition ruleset which is something of a hybrid between AD&D 2nd edition and the d20-oriented customization of 3rd edition.  Since the ruleset is quite similar to 3rd edition, you can easily adapt it for that edition or use its features with that in mind.  I may even do such an adaptation but for now the default rules will be as they are.  Having players not able to exceed 20 in any stat is a breath of relief for balancing dungeons.
 
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Sounds like an excellent idea for expanding on the potential of VX ACE. I would be interested just alone in a system script for Vancian magic and dice-rolling. I'm not familiar with the 5th edition and I wasn't even aware it was released, but I know that Icewind Dale used 2nd edition and that is among the best usages of D&D in a video game.

In the scope of RPG Maker, it would be wise not to attempt to entirely rebuild the tabletop experience. Having a grid and everything would be great, but, it could easily become too cumbersome and difficult. I'm a believer in respecting a medium's differences. Knights of the Old Republic kept the rules in the background, but you still felt able to build an all-around awesome party and go through challenging battles where each didn't require two or three hours of combat. So, it's usually better for the player to streamline the combat system, as best as possible. Even if we want to recreate as much of the D&D experience as possible, it's still really an overwhelmingly demanding task to consider applying the bulk of the rules. For example, things like the gelatinous cube's reach can be sacrificed and concepts like moving twenty five feet a turn... There's really a lot of complexity in determining what to keep and most of these things won't be understood by players who aren't familiar with any edition of D&D.

I would request mainly that you keep it simple and keep the ability to customize. A visual representation of a dice roll would be good, too, to allow. But, yeah, allow me to be able to turn on, or turn off, the different aspects of your system that I might need or might not need. Use attribute accessors. I would embrace any ruleset, as long as I can be able to set options for it. It's easy to overlook simple things when you are building a project of this magnitude, but, there is a great script for managing the message system in VX Ace that allows for all kinds of font changes, but forgets to allow you to change your font color. I like that you are including classes and the ability to create more. I'm really keen to see the DC checks and ability modifiers in action.

It's a big project that you are tackling, but I'll definitely be looking forward to seeing your initial release. Good luck!
 
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Engr. Adiktuzmiko

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I am personally not a fan of D&D rules on video games, to the point that I really hate most of it's implementations on video games... especially when most of those are on action-type games...


but I want to wish you good luck on this... I do hope you manage to pull it off nicely
 

AwesomeCool

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Sounds awesome!  Just make sure you don't loose motivation on it by making it to hard to make.
 

Kyutaru

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Sounds awesome!  Just make sure you don't loose motivation on it by making it to hard to make.
It's already made.  I'm just piling on the features now.  Like, how important is multiclassing?  It's theoretically possible with Yanfly's subclass engine but is it vital to the D&D experience?  The core mechanics are basically done so I'm just working on the class features now.
 

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I love multiclassing!  Yanfly's subclass engine would need modification though wouldn't it?  i think more people would like it if the script didn't depend on other scripts.

You could always release it as a addon to for the main engine too in case people don't want it.

Also, congratz on finishing it  :)
 

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Awesome!!!!!!!!!!

I love d&d, being a old player. And I love games like Baldur's Gate.

You've a beta of the script? I'm anxious to try.

I know ad&d and 3/3.5 rules. 

The classes and the damage/to hit/atributes is something I really want. The good and old d&d system - strenght to closed weapons, dex to ranged weapons, int to magic, wis to cleric spells...
 

Kyutaru

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All of that is already implemented along with Constitution to Hitpoints.  It's completely customizable too so your cleric can have some spells work off Wisdom while other spells might work off Charisma.  Monsters also are affected and customizable, and damage is separate from the equation so you can choose whether or not to apply modifiers to it.  The way the system works, debuffing enemy stats or buffing your own will show immediate results.  Currently the only exception is monster Constitution doesn't affect their hitpoints, in case you wanted to more carefully monitor that.  I will be including an option to enable that if you choose to, but be warned that it will greatly modify all your monster health totals.  I just finished the attribute system since in 5th edition you are granted the ability to improve ability scores every few levels.  I'm now working on the Feat system since it's required for most of the classes, though I'm not sure what the best implementation would be.  I'm thinking of doing something like a JP system where you simply buy your Feats from a window.

I'm testing the hell out of it myself and I'd prefer to release it when I have a playable demo that showcases all the class features.  Right now the game is kind of boring with just attack modifiers and saving throws with no real spells or abilities implemented so I feel a demo release wouldn't do the system justice currently.  What I am looking for is a list of feature requests to implement because the sooner I know what you want to see, the more likely I'll be able to code it in while I modify that area of the game.  Currently my focus is on classes so I'm trying to get the Feat system operational next.  I haven't decided how it will be implemented though so if you have suggestions or preferences, let me know before I do.

Oh and before I forget, 5th edition also has a sort of subclass system in the form of Paths.  I think Pathfinder has something like it too.  I can choose to implement these paths, or I can make classes have singular ability tracks for easier campaign creation.  The paths add a lot of power to the classes so the versatility of options will drastically change how effective they are, and some might be more effective than others in this type of RPG setting.  Let me know your thoughts on those.
 
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user3k

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About the Feat  in neverwinter nights you choose yours Feats based on your level, like warrior level 1 is granted 1 Feat, level 5 one more etc. Equal the 3rd edition. Jp can be added but I like more the 3rd edition system.

Path: i don't know exact how it works, but the two options appear great. Like you said, singular abilities are more easier than a multiclass system. Hard to decide. By myself, multiclass. But that probably will make the game harder for most players not experienced in the d&d system.

I can't remember other things to request right now. I've some things, but are battle related, and if I undertood correctly you're not working on these. Damage by area and some system to implement distance, so your warrior have to run until the archers and mages, or need to expend one turn to get closer to archers/mages/ranged.
 

Kyutaru

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I've put together a quick demo to showcase the elements currently present.  This is by no means definitive and polish will continue as development does.

I've enabled the debug messages to show attacks and saves in their true form.  These will be removed at the launch and I'm open to suggestions of where and when to show roll information.

Feats and classes are still in development and incompatible with this version, so this is just a demo of the technology presently available.

There are NPCs that will explain the features along with automatic level ups, up to level 20 for the final boss.

https://www.mediafire.com/?nhd5pnlelcmjjnu
 
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AwesomeCool

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cool.  will check out when I get home.
 

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Very nice, really good work.

Max base stats are just 20? What are the bonus and penalties? Base armor class is 10, i got that. But how attack bonus are calculated?

Stats screen: The 'Parameters' have the same info you can see in the 'General'. And the Biografy can be seen in the top of the window, not being necessary the same information.

The shop screen can reflect the total change in the armor class, and the total damage including weapon, comparing with the old equipment (ex: damage: 5-20 ). This calculation be added to the Stats screen, very useful information. 
 

Kyutaru

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Very nice, really good work.

Max base stats are just 20? What are the bonus and penalties? Base armor class is 10, i got that. But how attack bonus are calculated?

Stats screen: The 'Parameters' have the same info you can see in the 'General'. And the Biografy can be seen in the top of the window, not being necessary the same information.

The shop screen can reflect the total change in the armor class, and the total damage including weapon, comparing with the old equipment (ex: damage: 5-20 ). This calculation be added to the Stats screen, very useful information. 
Stats cap at 20 in 5th edition.  As an NPC explains, you can adjust that in the script to whatever you want.

Attack Bonus in 5th edition is Proficiency + Stat Modifier.  Proficiency starts at 1 and scales up at a rate of 4 times your level minus 1 and Stat Mods differ according to the weapon being used (standard d20 rules, Stat minus 10 divided by 2).  The status menu Attack Bonus is listed as your default base bonus, which is your Proficiency + your class's default attack modifier (usually dexterity or strength).  That's all customizable too.  Parameters and Biography are elements of Yanfly's Status Menu script.  You can actually disable those windows if you don't want them.  Parameters does not show the same information because the bar graphs are done in relation to other members of your party.  So the further the bar reaches across the screen, the higher that stat is relative to other party members.

The shop screen currently uses just the default shop menu script, I can adjust it to show AC changes.  Damage is a bit more difficult because the weapons aren't actually setup to have a particular damage stat, it's a formula.  Instead the damage is shown in the description because of different amounts of dice rolling different damage ranges.  Plus magical weapons can have effects beyond just damage, and sometimes the damage fluctuates (like with Vorpal weapons).  Adding all that to the stat screen would require tagging, won't be happening unless I redo the damage formula in the future to use tags instead.
 
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AwesomeCool

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Tested it.  I think it is awesome so far.

A few suggestions,

If the dice roll results could be popups that would be awesome (instead of freezing between every attack).

option for the level up screen to appear after level up in battle.

and if there was a way to see the damage range of weapons it would be a lot more awesome.

Just my two cents
 

Kyutaru

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Dice results are just for the demo, I can make them popups if that's the best way to show the result.  Should it be Total vs AC with just the numbers?  or break down all the info like I did with attack bonus, the roll itself, and the total?

Level up popping up after battle can be done, I'll add an option to turn it off.  It only pops up once though so if you have multiple heroes to level up, you need to level all of them before leaving the screen or they'll have points saved.  That's why the menu option exists at all.  Optionally I can force the player to spend all points before leaving the screen, but then I'd have to plan a different way to do feats.  They aren't automatically gained in this edition.

I'll see about adding more info to the status screen.  I think reworking attack bonus to show based on your currently equipped weapon would help too.  That'll come in the future when I make weapons compatible with all classes.  Currently you need to be pretty specific what class can use what weapon or it'll lead to incorrectly calculated attack bonuses.  I'm building this in layers so had to get the foundation set before moving up to the more customizable stuff.
 

AwesomeCool

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For the popups, I think giving as minimal info as possible is the best solution (as to not clog up the screen), while giving the user the info he need to conclude what happened for the attack.  You can put the breakdown in the help window at the top of the screen (the one that says "bee attacks", and such).

I can't wait to see the finished product :D
 

Black Vodka

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I'd much prefer to use the d20 system than the VX core rules, but I'd be a little hesitant to use 5th edition D&D rules. I much prefer 2nd edition AD&D rules.

Do you plan to bring a 2nd edition AD&D script forward? It's probably the most popular among us old-timers.

Either way, I would probably use this script in my game above the current model (the traditional VX formulas), so kudos to you.

I'll be looking out for this.
 
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Kyutaru

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I'd much prefer to use the d20 system than the VX core rules, but I'd be a little hesitant to use 5th edition D&D rules. I much prefer 2nd edition AD&D rules.

Do you plan to bring a 2nd edition AD&D script forward? It's probably the most popular among us old-timers.
I don't plan on adapting it for 2nd edition for a number of reasons, though the ruleset is already so close to 2nd edition that you may be able to simply configure it to 2nd edition standards.  Besides 2nd edition being extremely complicated (THAC0 bonuses, multiple kinds of saving throws, race and class caps, weapon proficiencies, nonweapon proficiencies, thief skill percentages, how ability scores calculate their modifiers, etc) it is also grossly unfair to the player.  Games like Icewind Dale and Baldur's Gate highly exemplify how LETHAL 2nd edition truly is, and that's in a system where movement and cover actually matter.  In an RPG setting where you cannot position your fighter in front of your wizard, it becomes even deadlier.  Monsters are obscenely powerful in 2nd edition, with some being completely immune to magic or non-magical weapons.  The only way to survive a 2nd edition campaign is through adept roleplaying skills and using the most of your environmental tactic options.  It's from an era where the DM rather much enjoyed murdering his players horribly and rerolling characters was common place.  Heck, elves can't even be raised from the dead and Constitution caps everyone else.

While 3rd edition made things too easy for the players by promoting min-maxing of stats and hyper specialization (I had characters who can reliably get a 50+ roll on their Diplomacy checks, like a walking Charm Person spell) and 4th edition is the worst thing since ketchup on toast, 5th edition returns players to the normalized era of 2nd edition's very limited scaling approach where even a +1 magic weapon is truly something to be thankful for.  This makes developing an RPG simple as no matter the level of the players, they can only handle moderately improved enemy threat levels.  In fact the most influential stat for players in 5th edition is their Hit Point total.  When attack rolls and damage vary only slightly from level 1 to 20, the amount of damage you can absorb dictates how likely you'll survive an encounter.

Like every edition, the strength of Wizards is usually a good indicator of its lethality.  In 2nd edition, Wizards had become Death.  As such, enemies were strong.  In 3rd edition, Wizards were masters of versatility and preparation.  As such, only extremely competent, well-prepared villains had a chance of disabling them.  In 4th edition, Wizards were little better than Fighters, merely sporting some crowd control, utility, and ranged attacks but still relying on attack rolls and lower damage than they were used to.  As such, enemies themselves were organized into role types and fought using push-pull strategies of grid-based manipulation.  Then we have 5th edition... where a 3rd level Fireball deals 6d6 damage while a 5th level Cone of Cold deals 6d8 damage.  If you cast Fireball as a 9th level spell, it still only deals 12d6 damage, and you only get 1 slot for 9th level spells.  The spell progression is muted, the damage is streamlined, caster level no longer makes a difference, and all form of scaling is virtually wiped clean (though saves still scale very slightly according to proficiency bonus).  Compared to other classes, the Wizard is still very damaging, doesn't require attack rolls, and has a decently large health pool, so he remains unique despite being weaker than previous editions.  As such, monsters need not be the zombie apocalypse just to threaten one of them.

In short, the main reason I went with 5th edition is it's beautiful simplicity, ease of stat calculations, normalized power curve, and average stats.  Just to give you an idea, the legendary archdevil Asmodeus is represented rather accurately within the demo I linked.  He has 28 Strength, hits players with a +10 attack bonus, and deals approximately 20 damage per hit (though he instantly kills people with less than 150 hitpoints on hit).  Such stats would be paltry in any other edition, including 2nd, yet here they sufficiently challenge the players without forcing them to power creep into the exponential ranges.
 

Black Vodka

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You know what? I'm actually okay with that. Truth be told, I don't play D&D anymore, and I only played using 2nd edition rules anyways. So, I'm probably a bit bias.

I'd probably make some modifications to your core mechanics, but all-in-all, I'd love to use the D&D core rules in place of the Eastern-style mechanics. I have nothing against the Eastern style, but I do love the CRPG style. 
 
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After looking through the script options I noticed that it could use a few more options.

For instance, lets say I do not want critical miss, but want everything else and have no coding knowledge.

Also, have you considered using some note tags for stuff like evasion (instead of overwriting the default database functions)?

It is sort of confusing that CNT (counter attack chance) is changed to evasion and such.
 

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