Eternal Twilight

Discussion in 'Completed Games' started by Fernyfer775, Nov 12, 2015.

  1. Blue Symphony

    Blue Symphony Wandering soul Veteran

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    @Fernyfer775
    Here are the stats of my chars for the fight:
    [​IMG]
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    I don't use the normal attack at all, I almost never run out of MP thanks to Trish Aqua stance. I use hunters mark+wyvern strike2 a lot. Healing spell + Smite2, holy flare on a pinch. Trish keeps the DoT going and replenish MP everytime she can, along with her 2 debuffs always on. Ryudo uses all the defense buffs at all time, plus wound and strike. I guard when she is gonna use ultima, but still get rekt. I use the Limit mostly for defense. You got me with the mass purify tho, I forgot about it, I've played too many rpgs and usually that skill only cures poison lol.

    So...? Was I underprepared? What threw me off the most was the fact the mad general fight was perfectly fine, and the enemies were also fine. But the difficulty curve just jumped through the roof with her, you need to time everything perfectly and have every buff available on you, that's not well balanced at all, IMO.

    Anyway, I switched to easy to deal with her, and was pleasantly surprised, the battle was fantastic, I could defeat her before her second -stage 3 ultima-. And the pacing of the battle was perfect(buff-strategy-finalpush), but it still WASN'T easy at all! I think that is what the original battle should've been.
    After that, I switched again to normal... only to get DESTROYED by the Mega Pincer of Berserking found in World Map, I'm gonna stick with easy, but I am not happy about that ): I hate playing games on baby mode.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2018
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  2. Fernyfer775

    Fernyfer775 Veteran Veteran

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    @Blue Symphony - Hmmmm, well, in terms of level and POWER stat, you're pretty much where my testers all were when facing Minerva and your strategy/skill usage seems to be fine. My only guess here is that you probably need to up the damage output a bit, which leads me to wonder what the quality of your weapons is. Do you have grey, green, or blue quality weapons?

    Minerva is notorious for being a difficult boss for sure, but just as a fair warning, she's a little on the easy side compared to some of the monstrosities coming up. :aswt:
     
  3. Blue Symphony

    Blue Symphony Wandering soul Veteran

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    Luna had a Green Willow Bow of Flame II +20 ATK + 30AGI +43POW
    Damien had a Green Willow Staff of Death +16MAT + 19SPI +24POW
    Trish had a Blue Willow Mallet of Death +27MAT +22SPI +37POW
    Ryudo had a Blue Darkened Sword of Flame II +35ATK +22AGI +48POW

    (Sorry if it seems like I'm yelling, but, I'm slightly dissapointed, seems our design philosophy is different).
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2018
  4. Fernyfer775

    Fernyfer775 Veteran Veteran

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    @Blue Symphony - No, you're totally good. This is good information to have as a developer. Minerva has been around for ~2 years now (it was where the demo used to end), and she was always "that one hard boss" that players always talked about. She's kind of a preview of what is yet to come in terms of boss battles, which only get crazier from this point out. I know the game can be pretty challenging, and I designed it to be so, so don't feel bad if you need to play it on Easy mode.

    In fact, some of my testers played through the game on Easy mode until they got a better feel for the systems and mechanics of the game before going back and replaying and beating it on Normal and even Hard mode. Don't feel discouraged by it! It'll just feel that much better when you finally beat a boss that gives you trouble! Also, please don't be afraid to reach out for help/tips/whatever on the game's discord channel. That's where all my testers hang out and they'll be more than happy to answer any questions you have or help you out! :D
     
  5. Isabella Ava

    Isabella Ava Veteran Veteran

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    @Fernyfer775 how did you balance character stats, weapons, enemies, skills... i am struggling with this : =(
     
  6. Dankovsky

    Dankovsky Veteran Veteran

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    Hey! Big congrats on the release, 3 years in development are no joke!

    Loving this game again. I haven't made it to Minevra yet (which is where I quit last time I played the demo), but so far so good. I also noticed 2nd boss was nerfed as there was no enrage? Not sure if it's justified but oh well, less wipes is usually a good thing.

    As far as feedback goes, I don't think it will win any awards for level design, writing or story (which are all fine, just not exceptional), but the combat in this game is still something most RPG maker devs should learn from - it's almost perfect.

    Also I really like randomized crafting, even though having 4+ characters with like 8 equipment slots each is very hard to manage.
    I also can't really figure out Ryudo for now, his damage output seems just too low compared to others, but maybe he just needs some gear upgrades.

    P.S. Hope you get the game on Steam after some tweaks, even if it's for free. Steam really deserves more good RPGMaker games.
     
  7. Fernyfer775

    Fernyfer775 Veteran Veteran

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    @Isabella Ava - Tons and tons and tons AND TONS AND TONS of testing and tweaking. There is no simple answer to this, you just have to test play the hell out of your game until it feels right. But, it's not over yet. Once YOU think the balancing feels right, you let people playtest your game and then tweak it some more. Good luck! ^_^

    @Dankovsky - Thank you for the combat system praises! ^_^ In all honesty, I set out to make this game to see if I could make a fun and challenging turn-based battle system using RPG Maker. The story and all that other jazz is there to give the battle system a reason to be there hahaha, so I'm glad that's the one thing that is getting most of the praise.

    As for Vygor, I removed his enrage in Normal Mode, because I did a lot of tweaking with the gear stats, and I didn't want players to get to him if they hadn't crafted a lot yet and then get smashed so early in the game. He does still Enrage during Hard Mode though! Minerva on the other hand...she is still notorious as ever and has thus far claimed quite a few victims, so good luck on her! :)

    Ryudo's damage output can be pretty low until you've unlocked more of his skills (maximizing Shadow Strike, for example, gives you 2 Bloodlust stacks, which allows you to use Obliterate more often) and later learn his special skill "Instinct." By mid to end-game, his damage will definitely catch up to the rest of the damage dealing crew!

    PS - I'm not 100% sure how getting games onto Steam works, but I can sure as hell look into it!
     
  8. BloodletterQ

    BloodletterQ Chaotic Neutral Assassin Veteran

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    Must feel good being an RMer whose created That One Boss...
     
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  9. Fernyfer775

    Fernyfer775 Veteran Veteran

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    @BloodletterQ - Hahaha, I spent months making and tweaking her to be just right. I have to say I am mighty proud of how she turned out. She IS meant to be very difficult and 9 out of 10 times, if you are wiping to her, it's because you're either undergeared (the game has a much bigger focus on crafting gear, rather than grinding to level up) or you just played sub-optimally against her. She was one of my tester's favorite bosses to fight.

    I've actually seen 3 streamers play against her as well, and every single of them got wrecked by her on their 1st attempt, but most ended up killing her the 2nd time once they got a better feel for her.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2018
  10. Dankovsky

    Dankovsky Veteran Veteran

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    Okay, this may be just me, but this happened twice now. After getting Ryudo you go back to town to talk with his girlfriend at the weapon shop. Right after they stop talking and the guard leaves the characters are just stuck and unable to move.
    Can you check it out? I'm playing 1.0.2 version from RMN.
     
  11. Fernyfer775

    Fernyfer775 Veteran Veteran

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    @Dankovsky - Ahhhhhhhh, I "fixed" an issue in v1.0.1 in that very same cut-scene only to BREAK something else! I forgot to re-add the "through on" command for the soldier, so he's getting stuck at the door, which freezes up the game. I am sorry about that...I am uploading v1.0.3 with the fix now. #Embarrassed

    EDIT: Version 1.0.3 is now live. D:
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2018
  12. D.L. Yomegami

    D.L. Yomegami Sanely Insane Veteran

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    Decided to give this game a try some days ago. At the moment I'm playing on Easy and have just beaten Minerva and made it to just before heading into the previously barricaded cave. It's been a pretty good game so far.

    The story and characters have been pretty enjoyable so far; I think that little gut-punch moment shortly before Minerva was where I've gotten invested. I will say that the optional friendship moments have been pretty one-note, though (Damien seems to be the only character willing to branch out from the same one or two topics). I'll probably have more to comment on once I'm further into the game.

    The presentation's just excellent. So far I've been loving how the RTP's being used, and the menus and GUI all look pretty good. The action sequences are all awesome (even if they DO make me grateful for the health bars; I find it hard to tell just how much damage is being done given that most attacks have a lot of hits to them). The non-RTP music is also really nice; I like the battle themes in particular (ESPECIALLY THE BOSS THEME. Holy -arg-, that song's ten tons of awesome).

    Now onto the battle system. So far, so good. I like the whole "enemies have special traits that change up battles" thing, even if it does make certain enemies a little bit more of a pain to deal with. I can also appreciate that none of the playable characters are super-generic playstyle wise. That being said, it did feel overly complex at first, and even now there's a lot of variables to keep track of. It's mostly the reason why I opted to play on Easy despite normally being the sort of person who'd go for a higher difficulty.

    Speaking of Easy...I've actually been finding it a decent enough challenge, in that some enemies are still annoyances and that the bosses are still decently challenging. Granted, the Imps and Vygor weren't too problematic. Minerva, on the other hand...I wiped out twice. The first two times I managed to get her down to a couple thousand HP but got destroyed by the second Dark Ultima cast. The third time I managed to beat her just before the second Dark Ultima cast. Considering that fight was...something, I'm both looking forwards to and dreading what future bosses have in store.

    My biggest gripe with the game so far is the equipment and crafting system. For being the game's primary way of making characters stronger, I'm just finding it too random and rather tedious to deal with. Once again, there's a lot of variables to keep track of (eight equipment slots across five characters). There also doesn't seem to be any way to influence how the stuff you craft comes out; it basically boils down into "throw materials at it and hope you get something that's more useful than what you already have."

    I like the skill learning/upgrading system. It's not anything really special, but it gets the job done and is a little more interesting than just getting skills through level up. And also that the upgraded skills replace the original versions outright as opposed to sharing space in the skill menu with them.

    I did run into a bug with the skill learning system, though. When I had Trish learn Gaian Tide, she...actually didn't learn it? I paid AP for the skill and it showed up as "learned," but it didn't appear on her Skills list and wasn't available for use in battle. She did learn its next upgrade properly, though (Gaian Splendor showed up on her skills list and could be selected in battle).

    I suppose that's all my thoughts for the time being. I'll probably have more once I get further into the game. At the very least, the story and the promise of even crazier bosses is enough for me to keep going for the time being.
     
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  13. Dankovsky

    Dankovsky Veteran Veteran

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    Thanks for fixing that bug, I hope you didn't lose too many players because of it!
    Wiping on Minevra now too, playing on normal. I think you overdid it a little with Ultima's damage, since it 100% kills 2 out of my 4 characters (on full HP) with no chance to fight back, even when using Defend. I've been fighting until turn 20 when I'm simply running out of resurrection apples. Maybe it requires near-perfect gear with huge HP boosts, but in any case, I expect some players would rather drop the game than replay 20 minutes of boss fight several times.

    It's really not that complicated nowadays (well, maybe adding achievements is, but they're not required), but you do need to pay 100 USD to get on, even with a free game. Still a great deal to get exposure, feedback and some street cred :)
     
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  14. Fernyfer775

    Fernyfer775 Veteran Veteran

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    @D.L. Yomegami - That is some great feedback, thank you for taking the time to write it out!
    Thank you so much for this. I set out with a vision of creating something that can be presentably great using RTP. I am glad that it shows.

    I suppose some good and bad game from the complexity of the battle system/character skills. On one end, people appreciate it, because it's not your generic basic battle system that you see in a lot of RPG Maker games, but on the other end, people find it too complex and turned off by it. I take a lot of motivation from MMO's in terms of character skill development, so I'm not surprised that some people get a little turned off by the complexity and the way certain skills or states interact with one another.

    At first, this whole system seemed like such a cool idea to implement, and at the end of the day, I was EXTREMELY pleased with how it turned out. But, in hindsight, having that many equipment slots with that many variables attached to the quality of the gear was something better suited for a game with less playable characters, so I will agree with you on this point. It's far too baked into the game itself to change now though, so I guess I'll take it as a "ding" to the score it gets.

    Yeah, she is definitely a difficult boss. Probably one of the hardest in the game because at that point, you're still learning the combat system and the skills that your party has at their disposal. I'm torn on her, because, as stated previously, I had (I kid you not) over 15 people test that fight, and most said that, yes, it was difficult, but she felt fine once you learned her patterns and when to use your defensive skills to help counter her attacks.

    Somehow, I managed to change the skill type to a skill type that she's unable to use...thank you for reporting that. It's fixed now.


    @Dankovsky - Perhaps I just need to accept the fact that she's too hard and nerf her a little bit. I'll look into what I need to do to tweak her up a bit. I'll be pushing v1.0.4 out soon to fix the GAIAN TIDE bug with Trish, so I'll slap a few Minerva nerfs into that version while I'm at it.


    EDIT: 8/9/18 @ 12:15pm
    Eternal Twilight v1.0.4 is LIVE

    Hello everybody! I'm pushing another version out today with a few fixes and tweaks. Most notably is the nerf to Boss Minerva's HP and damage output. Players have reported that she is too hard, so I buckled and decided to nerf her. While I was at it, I went ahead and slightly reduced the damage output and HP of the next few bosses after Minerva.

    Bugs fixed:
    • When Trish learns GAIAN TIDE, she is unable to see it in battle or in her skill menu.
    • Also slightly reduced (Boss Battle) Minerva's MaxHP and damage output.
    • Fixed a handful of typos that were previously missed.

    As always, thank you for your continued support and have fun! :)

    PS - If you have no issues with the difficulty thus far, the only real reason to update the game at this point would be to “fix” Trish’s GAIAN TIDE ability. If you’ve already upgraded GAIAN TIDE to it’s next tier, then this bug no longer affects you.

    EDIT: 8/16/18 @ 4:30pm
    Eternal Twilight v1.0.5 is LIVE
    Just a handful of small changes based on feedback that I've been given.
    • Auto-Dash indoors has been enabled.
    • A multitude of typos have been fixed.
    • Defense now provides slightly more damage mitigation than before.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2018 at 8:30 AM
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  15. Dankovsky

    Dankovsky Veteran Veteran

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    Hey. Just wanted to point out you shouldn't feel obligated to change the game just because some whiny players told you so, even if they're me, haha. Generally I felt the only problem with her was that Ultima was hitting characters for ~1500+ hp while most of them only had ~1200 max hp, therefore there was no defense available to the player except spamming phoenix downs, which is usually a design concern LOL. Anyway, I did manage to beat her pre-patch, woo! Took 10 tomatoes, though:)
     
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  16. XianRemigius

    XianRemigius Villager Member

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    Hey, nice to meet you. New player here. Just start playing today and overall I can say that your game is quite good. I'm intrigued by the story and character interaction. This is my first RPG Maker VX Ace's game so I don't really mind the using of RTP. The OST is also so good!

    My major concerns are:
    1. The battle system is too convoluted for my taste. The effect of each skills is so complicated, I have hard time remembering all of them and that makes the battle longer than should be.
    2. The overuse of randomized effects of equipment. I hate RNG in games with passion so this is a major drawback for me. I'm not sure if I've already used the most proper equipment for each characters. Also sometimes I found that Tier 2 equipment is strangely weaker than Tier 1.
    3. The naming of items, equipment and skills is just too long. It'd be much easier if you use the standard name for common healing items like Potion, High Potion, etc instead of Red Apple, Purple Grapes, etc. Also for skill, Heal/Cure instead of Prayer.

    For bugs, I'm having similar problem with Dankovsky, being stuck at that scene with Ryudo's friend in weapon shop. My version is 1.0.2.

    I read that you have repaired this bug in version 1.0.3 and the latest version is 1.0.5. So I looked up the download link on first page, which says it is indeed for version 1.0.5. But when I have finished downloading it and extracted the .zip file, it actually contains version 1.0.4. Could you please recheck it? Is it safe if I just replace the former version with this? Would it erase my save file? Thanks for your help.
     
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  17. Fernyfer775

    Fernyfer775 Veteran Veteran

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    Thank you for the feedback @XianRemigius.

    Below, I've addressed some of your concerns. :)

    That's fair, I suppose. I wanted to shy as far away from the typical rpg maker battle system as possible and bring some actual life to skills and their effects. I understand that some people prefer simpler battle systems, and that's okay, but my game isn't one of those games.

    This equipment system was adopted from the Diablo series. Some people love it and some people don't. But, when in doubt, just press OPTIMIZE. I hard coded the game to equip each character with the best piece of armor for their class. For example, Luna prioritizes Agility and Attack, so when you OPTIMIZE her, the system is going to look for the gear with the highest POWER stat (which signifies the strength of the gear) and then from there, cycle through the pieces with the highest Agility and Attack and then place those pieces onto her.

    This one I don't quite agree with. A game loses a bit of it's uniqueness when the naming schemes are all the same. Heal, Cure, Potion, etc. are so generic, it felt boring to name my items the same thing. The good thing is that the game isn't ATB, so you don't need to rush to make a decision in battle anyways. Eventually, you'll memorize what the skills and items do, so I don't necessarily think this is a problem.


    As for the download link, for some reason, when I posted v1.0.5, it added the name and the changelog, but not the actual correct folder. I re-uploaded it and it should fix the problem. As for keeping your old save file. When you download v1.0.5, all you need to do is Copy/Paste your "SAVE" folder into the new downloaded game and you'll be good to go.
     
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  18. XianRemigius

    XianRemigius Villager Member

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    Thanks for your reply. I guess I'm already getting too used to simpler battle systems from FF (I to X). Probably I was shocked by how complex the battle systems in your game. But please take it as a compliment because the more I think about it, the more I realize that it's actually the strength of your game!

    As for the equipment, is the "Optimize" function just sorting it by the stats? Because sometimes I prefer the bonus effect, like the reduction in MP cost or increase in TP charge, etc.

    Usually how long does it take for average person to memorize the skills and items? I've been playing for almost 5 hours, but is still having difficulties. Or am I just dumb? Lol.

    Thank you for fixing the download file. I've downloaded it and the save file is working fine.

    One more question. I found that the display of the list of armor is kind of weird. For example, please open the image's link below as I'm new on this forum so I don't know how to attach image properly.

    In this case, I wanted to extract Rune Essence from my unused armors. I have 1 idle Titan Bangle ("1x"), but then for the rest of armors, it only stated the number order of that armor from maximum of 100 (Unpolished Relic is item number 2 from 100, Hard Leather Vamps of Osmosis is item number 3 of 100, and so on). It didn't show the quantity of that armor like Titan Bangle. It makes me hard to know the remaining quantity of those items available to be extracted to obtain Rune Essence. Can you please explain the reason behind this?

     
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  19. Fernyfer775

    Fernyfer775 Veteran Veteran

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    @XianRemigius

    I appreciate that, thank you.

    Yes, that is the one limitation of the OPTIMIZE feature. It only looks at the top 3 stats of that character (if you go to STATUS and check GUIDE under the main menu, it will show you what the top 3 priority stats are for each character). The optimize feature does not take into consideration secondary effects, such as "of regeneration" - "of stoneskin" - "of Life" etc when calculating the strength of the gear. All in all though, it's pretty safe to use OPTIMIZE and then manually swap out pieces you want if you like their secondary more.

    You're not dumb at all! Most of my testers took a bit to get used to the battle system. As for how long? I don't know, but in all, I had over 15 testers play through the game and I had variable results. A handful of them playtested through Easy, most through Normal, and a few through Hard mode as well.

    Alas, that is a weird limitation of one of the plugins I'm using for the game. In a nutshell, items that roll random stats, like the Relics, Cloth, Leather, Plate armors, and Weapons will have a x/100 number to them, which is just showing you that you can carry up to 100 items before your bags become "full" and you can't carry anymore. Items like the Titan Bangle, Bronze Ward, consumables like Apples, etc. don't get a x/100 number because they each have their own limits on how many you can carry at once.

    In a nutshell, I wouldn't worry about that number too much.
     
  20. XianRemigius

    XianRemigius Villager Member

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    Do they stack or not?
     

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