Ex post facto missions

[Oddball]

whats everyones opinions on this?


so lets say most of the time when you walk into a smithy, its a normal weapons shop. but the first time you walk in with, oh say, 15 iron ore in your inventory (and hadnt sold them) the blacksmith complains that there ore shipment is late and asks you to collect some iron ore and its turned in immedeatly and you get an awesome reward

 

[Shaz]

Are you asking for help to get this working (in which case it should go into the Support forum for whatever engine you're using - assuming Ace as that's what your profile says and your post/title/tags don't specify), or are you asking for opinions on using that as a game mechanic?


It would all be done with conditional branches and self switches.

 

[Oddball]

I knew how to do it, but thank you anyway. Im asking for opinions as a game mechanic

 

[Kes]

I think to make it clearer for people coming to the thread for the first time, it might be helpful to edit your first post to include that you are looking for opinions as a game mechanic.  You might also want to edit your title to "Ex post facto", because at the moment it's not clear what you're referring to.

 

[Wavelength]

This topic confuses me to be honest - it sounds to me like you are just describing a scenario that can happen when someone plays an RPG.  What part of the scenario you're describing do you want opinions on?  Are you saying something like "what if the introduction to the shop looked through your inventory, found something you had, and then asked for it"?

 

[Oddball]

@Wavelength: I wasnt just talking about a shop. I was talking about if the player fufills hidden parameters, they get rewards. and the parameters are mission like stuff

 

[LaFlibuste]

So basically "Should your game be filled with secret missions that the player only learns about when he's completed them"? Like secret fetch quests? I'm not too sure this sounds like a fun mechanic, honestly... The first time I read it, and I guess I'd feel this way as a player encountering this, my first thought was "Why give me a quest if I have nothing to do and it is already completed?". I don't know, it feels counter-intuitive...

 

[ShadowHawkDragon]

So... a 'quest' that triggers when and only when you have 15 ore and is then over in that instant but you (the player) don't know this. Instead you sell your 14 ore non-the-wiser, later you sell another 10, then 13, then... 


Eventually you do have 15 ore only to get some iron sword/shield and pocket change when you are a millionaire clad in full mithril.


Its basically a 'hidden reward' system that encourages your players to simply hoard items but adds nothing extra in return, just a little bit extra reward for what they are already doing. 


Now if it were a quest involving unrelated tasks (taking out the bandits who stole the shipment) that counts all Iron Ore currently held and has been sold in the entire play-through (sorta like how Etrian Odyssey adds new stock by selling monster drops)...

 

[Basileus]

Agreed, a quest unlocking due to background info is fine and can be fun. Said quest auto-completing at the same time means that it is not really a quest at all since there is zero player input or involvement. You may as well just roll some dice every time the player walks in the door and give them a reward if they roll a 7 or something.


That said, hidden unlockable quests and even hidden rewards can be still be a usable mechanic. In Fallout: New Vegas I unlocked Perks that I didn't even know existed just through regular gameplay - killing tons of mutated ants eventually unlocked a Perk that made me deal more damage to bugs. I didn't set out to get it because I never saw it in the Perk selection at Level Up, I was just killing so many ants because I went to places that had lots of ants. Eventually I killed enough ants to unlocked a second tier of said Perk to do even more bonus damage. Some of these gameplay Perks gave me period completion bars so I knew that I could do things to unlock something, like I think there was a Perk for getting enough headshots with a Pistol but didn't get the notification for the "quest" until I got something like 25/100. If a player went the whole game without using Pistols, or never went for headshots, they would never know the Perk existed. But if that's your play-style then the game will give that notice so the player knows there is some kind of reward if they do that action a bunch more times.


I think the key there was letting the player know what needs to be done to finish the "quest" so they actually have something to do. The ant quest was neat since it was unobtrusive and was just letting me know I got a simple bonus to make doing that repetitive action easier. The Pistol quest was a lot more fun since I suddenly learned that I could get a cool reward and could choose to build up my count toward that reward at any time - since I was primarily using my Pistol on that run I went out of my way to try and get it fast but if I preferred using Rifles instead I could have just ignored it without feeling guilty about missing a serious quest like the ones in town.

 

[Oddball]

Thanks everyone


I think if i do this ill go with the perks thing. Or simply make quests avalible if the player does certain things


though this started out as an idea to unlock cool easter eggs for the player that are unknown why they were unlocked

 

[Wavelength]

Okay, I understand what you mean now.  And I totally agree with everyone else - don't introduce missions only once they've already been completed.  It takes the gameplay out of the gameplay!  On the other hand, introducing missions (that have not yet been completed) only when the player has a certain item or has talked to a certain NPC or whatever is fine, as long as there is already enough out there to do in the world for the player who hasn't triggered these secret flags.