EXP Mechanics

[Frostorm]

So I have 2 questions regarding experience point gain...

1. What are your thoughts on leveling up from 1 -> 3 after the 1st battle of the game? Is it bad that it jumps past level 2?
2. What are your thoughts on XP per kill vs XP per action?

Mainly looking for people's opinions here, there's no right or wrong answer. I just wanna weigh people's pros & cons. Also, are there any unique/interesting ways to gain XP?

 

[Finnuval]

1) no not a problem
2) xp per kill is easier for the player to keep track off. Wether that is necessary or not depends on other factors like the need to grind, etc. Etc.

As for interesting ways to gain xp or level up :
Suikoden had an interesting system that worked really well if you have a large cast of characters andd you dont want to create a situation where players stick with the same party due to them out levelling the others -
Level gain was always at 1000 exp no matter if it wass lv 1-2 or lv 39-40 however the higher the characters level is the less % of exp per kill they gained.

The obvious pro being that it was real easy to get later characters up to the current level.
The con wass grinding with higher lv characters was more difficult as 1% of 10xp isn't going to make you level anytime soon xD

 

[MushroomCake28]

1) I have no problem with that at all.

2) It depends on your game. I would say that XP per kill can be disadvantageous if you have some characters or some classes that are more focused on buffs or healing. Obviously they are going to have way less kills than a DPS build (assuming that XP is per character and not for the entire party. If it's for the entire party, now that's a different story).

 

[Black Pagan]

So I have 2 questions regarding experience point gain...

1. What are your thoughts on leveling up from 1 -> 3 after the 1st battle of the game? Is it bad that it jumps past level 2?
2. What are your thoughts on XP per kill vs XP per action?

Mainly looking for people's opinions here, there's no right or wrong answer. I just wanna weigh people's pros & cons. Also, are there any unique/interesting ways to gain XP?

Well, If I was a playing your game, I would get the impression that your game has a lot of Levels. I would also expect to see this happening again many times in the Game. That's personally what i think if a Character or Battle forces levelling up multiple levels. I have seen many Games do this during Boss Battles.

I'm not a fan of EXP per action, But EXP / Kill system sounds interesting, Especially if it has additional features based around it. Example : An accessory when equipped, Grants +xx additional EXP / Kill in Battle. I would love to play a game with unique aspects like these.

 

[Dopan]

exp per Kill Vs exp per Action

I preffer exp per Kill especially if its a TBS game
- because it makes grinding via "heal and attack" a caged Enemy impossible

caged Enemy = an enemy that cant move or run away

That way the Player of the game has to calculate better who kills which enemy in order to distribute the exp and let actors Lv up

a very old game "death or glory" used that , and lv ups where important for class-changes.. so it was important to make sure that the exp are well shared betwen all Units
(that game limited the enemy Units very well , it wasnt possible to wait at a spawn point for more enemys or to get extra fights that provides more enemys)
=> that way the exp distribution was very limited ,and that was good for the gameplay in my opinion

Edit
..that game allowed the Main Units to get mercenarys and each kill they made gave exp to the main Unit,.. that way a healer could earn exp without attacking by himself
(but that can be solved with giving a few "light"-dmg Magic-skills to the healer,in order to kill enemys that have low hp)

 

[Kupotepo]

1. I have no problem with that at all.
2. XP per kill is popular in a rouge-like RPG game, while XP per action is about the popular method in the game like Stardew Valley.
Also depending on your character experience progression and plugins which control experience progression.

Also, are there any unique/interesting ways to gain XP?

Yes, there is another method I can think of. In one of the MMORPG I play, the characters gain experience by looted items or just simple items that boost exp.

 

[RinTheWanderer]

XP per action is risky from a dev stand point because you risk incentivizing the wrong behaviors like heal spamming against weak enemies or attacking party members for stat gain. It's definitely possible to do well, but I think for a turn based game something like bonuses achieved by doing some specific action x amount of times can be better.
Like heal spell upgrades if you use it in 20 different battles or you gain extra attack if you overkill an enemy by 5x their max hp. By limiting the benefit you can get from 1 behavior, you can encourage the player to try different strategies that they might not normally try, but only "force" them into it for a short amount of time.

 

[Warpmind]

My tuppence on the matter:

1) Ehhh, not a fan. Whenever I play a game and see characters accelerate through several levels in a single jump (exceptions made for getting low-level characters into a high-level party and receiving high-level XP rates), I feel like the designer has made some exceedingly questionable balancing decisions. Even with a 99-level progression, it seems entirely out of place for people to gain several levels by merely fighting a small band of squishy, common goblins. It's a worldbuilding thing, mainly, to be honest, but one that does stick out like a sore thumb to me.

2) Whether in tabletop or video games, I disfavor individual XP gain for collective efforts like combat, and per-kill or per-action XP can quickly skew progression badly, especially if you have characters dedicated to buffs and healing contrasted by characters dedicated to tanking and spanking. However, individual XP for, say, class-specific or character-specific out-of-combat actions can be appropriate, such as if the party's healer saves the life of the young prince, or the party's thief manages to disarm all the traps and pick all the locks in the villain's hideout, that sort of thing.

As for interesting/unique ways to gain XP - I see Quest XP massively underutilized in JRPGs, though it's hardly "unique" or "interesting" as such. If you want something more interesting, perhaps a "Nietzche State" where a character's XP rate is increased by the amount of HP they're missing at the end of combat?

You might be able to make something even more interesting by using XP as a point-buy system instead of a leveling system, though - perhaps something akin to the mechanics of the GURPS, Storyteller, or Fate systems for tabletop roleplaying? I made something like that for 2K once upon a time, and let me tell you, while it was technically working, it was an eventing fustercluck.

 

[Ami]

What are your thoughts on leveling up from 1 -> 3 after the 1st battle of the game? Is it bad that it jumps past level 2?

I'm okay with that,it's Surprising me.

What are your thoughts on XP per kill vs XP per action?

• XP per kill is Traditional way to build your character to strong (Every RPG use that)
• XP per action is happen when you do some activities. Most leveling that i Love is Fallout 1 & 2 (Like Steal the Villager's Items and Moneys,Open the Locked Door & Chest)

when you ask what i choose is: Depending what suits you. Or i can Choose Both of them.

But,most i hate is: you leveling up,your Power is Rising,and you feel it with your perspective as Designer, it's kinda unbalance between your Power with Enemy's Power (like too strong than your enemy or too weak),even you using the Enemy Level System isn't help at all (I'm honestly Bad at this).
I prefer with Build System to Build anything that suits you in Battle,you can Reset into Default if you doesn't suits you……with Bunch of Money

Edit: If you ask the way to gain EXP is (The Worst Way) is EXP Potion. Why i said The Worst Way: You may know it

 

[Frostorm]

Thank you for the inputs, I will probably reduce the XP given for that 1st encounter even though most people seem fine w/ a Lv1->3 jump. My game has a Lv 50 cap and I don't want players to get the feeling the Lv cap is 300 or something lol. This 1st encounter would've been the only fight that would make the player skip a Lv (due to so little XP req for Lv1->2).

The reason I asked about the Lv 1->3 jump is cuz the 1st battle of my game is against a much higher lv (Lv12) unit, while the player is only Lv 1. I have a general guideline for how much XP is gained for each enemy, largely based on the enemy's Lv. Anyway, she is meant to be a tutorial to combat so you aren't meant to beat her. So I guess it would be fine just giving the player like half the XP of what would normally be awarded for an enemy of that caliber.

I preffer exp per Kill especially if its a TBS game
- because it makes grinding via "heal and attack" a caged Enemy impossible

caged Enemy = an enemy that cant move or run away

Oh yea that's a huge loophole, I think I'm gonna stick w/ XP per kill simply to avoid this lol.

Edit:

1) Ehhh, not a fan. Whenever I play a game and see characters accelerate through several levels in a single jump (exceptions made for getting low-level characters into a high-level party and receiving high-level XP rates), I feel like the designer has made some exceedingly questionable balancing decisions. Even with a 99-level progression, it seems entirely out of place for people to gain several levels by merely fighting a small band of squishy, common goblins. It's a worldbuilding thing, mainly, to be honest, but one that does stick out like a sore thumb to me.

On second thought, maybe I should just leave the Lv1->3 jump in there since the enemy is a MUCH higher Lv than the player. If it's a worldbuilding thing, I get it. No way would I make a Lv1 or 2 enemy give so much XP that the player skips a level. So would such a scenario be acceptable? I don't foresee ANY other encounter in the game to make the player skip a level.

 

[Pootscooter]

What values do you guys use for the experience curve? I can never decide on some arbitrary value...

 

[Warpmind]

Thank you for the inputs, I will probably reduce the XP given for that 1st encounter even though most people seem fine w/ a Lv1->3 jump. My game has a Lv 50 cap and I don't want players to get the feeling the Lv cap is 300 or something lol. This 1st encounter would've been the only fight that would make the player skip a Lv (due to so little XP req for Lv1->2).

The reason I asked about the Lv 1->3 jump is cuz the 1st battle of my game is against a much higher lv (Lv12) unit, while the player is only Lv 1. I have a general guideline for how much XP is gained for each enemy, largely based on the enemy's Lv. Anyway, she is meant to be a tutorial to combat so you aren't meant to beat her. So I guess it would be fine just giving the player like half the XP of what would normally be awarded for an enemy of that caliber.


Oh yea that's a huge loophole, I think I'm gonna stick w/ XP per kill simply to avoid this lol.

Edit:

On second thought, maybe I should just leave the Lv1->3 jump in there since the enemy is a MUCH higher Lv than the player. If it's a worldbuilding thing, I get it. No way would I make a Lv1 or 2 enemy give so much XP that the player skips a level. So would such a scenario be acceptable? I don't foresee ANY other encounter in the game to make the player skip a level.

Under these conditions, with the first battle being basically a scripted boss fight, rather than a normal leveled encounter, I'd have a lot less against it. That's an in-setting justification that makes sense, unlike the more apparent scenario of ablative flak giving an outrageous XP boost.

What values do you guys use for the experience curve? I can never decide on some arbitrary value...

The default XP curve is pretty fair, really - but it's not about hard and fast values; you've got to scale the curve according to several variables, such as what level of ability you expect the party to be at by the final boss, how long you expect it to take (both time-wise and number of encounters-wise), and how much XP you expect to hand out per encounter.

In practice, getting 1 or 2 XP per encounter when you level up every 10 XP is exactly the same as getting 100 or 200 XP per encounter when you level up every 1,000 XP. I'd recommend that instead of asking about hard numbers, look at tabletop systems like D&D and Pathfinder, specifically the GM chapters relating to the question of XP rewards and monsters' challenge ratings. It won't necessarily give you hard numbers to punch in, but it should give you a better idea of how to scale the curve.

 

[Frostorm]

What values do you guys use for the experience curve? I can never decide on some arbitrary value...

If anyone's interested...the XP curve values of 46, 27, 22, 10 will yield a character w/ exactly 500,000 XP by lv50. Gawd, it took me forever fiddling w/ that thing till I found that combination lol.