Fallout 4 and other titles. Does all this hype hurt the game, or not?

[hian]

More to the point of the conversation though, is @hian. I am sad to know you are pessimistic. I hope you are not depressed. Being a realist is not bad at all in my opinion though.


Being romantic gives you fuel to fly through life, buy flihgts have the possibility of a bad crash, you know what I am saying right?


Well not everyone has such a filter. Some  people even age and never learn. 


You got a point there. But most of the people get disappointed through hype. So here comes the question. Doesn't that disappointment hurt the game's reputation?


No matter how "stupid" or "immature" or "unrealistic" hype is, it is a very common mental framework that marketing takes advantage.


So I will have to disaggree with your first statement.


It might hurt the game AND the company and of  course all the people who got that hype.

Not depressed, just a pessimist - which means I am of the opinion that things that can go wrong,


tend to go wrong, and people in general tend to be ignorant about more things than they are educated about.


That does not in any way impede on my life quality though, or make me sad,


because I don't rely on other people to make me happy or feel content,


nor do I let other people get me down.


I do partially agree with your view on consequences for companies through failed hype though - which I


was actually planning to write out in my first point.


The reason I opted not to do so, is because I remembered that this becomes secondary to the


fact that the hype usually is shown to fail after the primary sales, which means that the


company has already profited by the time the reputation of the game, or company, becomes a


train-wreck.


Furthermore, despite a continued trend of failed hype, companies like Ubisoft still keep on


consistently pushing out AAA titles that make enough revenue to cover production-costs, marketing


and future products to boot.


So really, while some companies might get screwed over by failed hype, generally


speaking, the only people who're really screwed over by it, are the useful idiots who buy the


games and then regret the purchase.


Still, I am not blind to the economical effects of failed hype - I just couldn't be bothered


to include it in my post considering the degree in difference between company losses, and fan


frustration.


The real losers in the hype equation are the consumers - but that isn't the companies fault.


The simply exploit what is already exploitable - by playing on the heart-strings of the


easily impressionable.


If the major consumer demographic of games were pre-pubescent children, then I would


consider those companies predatory and malicious, but as it stands, that's not the case,


and when you've hit your early teens etc. there really is no excuse not the have the ability


to temper your expectations unless you've lead a very, very sheltered life.

 

[_Shadow_]

I actually avoided playing Skyrim until 2014 because of the hype. Didn't pick it up until a crazy sale.

Damn that game is amazing. (On the other hand, Morrowind kind of disappointed me because I was expecting something more like Daggerfall...)

Well NOTHING is like Daggerfall. When it comes to awesomeness and also bugs I guess. Daggerfall can probably win a Guiness record for most pathced game ever lol! But still it was just fantastic. Daggerfall was a really REALLY daring project back then. It still is.

 

If the major consumer demographic of games were pre-pubescent children, then I would

consider those companies predatory and malicious, but as it stands, that's not the case,

and when you've hit your early teens etc. there really is no excuse not the have the ability

to temper your expectations unless you've lead a very, very sheltered life.




You know that in fact most of the people are just kids that aged right?  

I mean... just that. Age does not come with wisdom. That's just a stereotype.

Anyway. you got an interesting point of view I can say, just one thing. I don't believe it is stupidity that makes someone go with the flow of the hype. There might be several rational or irrational reasons. Hey I don't know why anyone should be aboard the hype train, but I know  everyone has a reason when doing something. 

 

[Touchfuzzy]

Daggerfall is that game I always say was too ambitious for reality. It was a buggy mess, and yeah, it could be repetitive, but I loved it to death.

 

[hian]

You know that in fact most of the people are just kids that aged right?  

Eh no. That's not right. The vast majority of gamers, especially the demographic who play the AAA titles


that usually get hyped, are young adults, not pre-pubescent children (pre-pubescent children are people


under 13-15 for Christ's sake. Do you really think this is the primary player demographic for games


like Call of Duty, Assassin's Creed, Fallout etc.?)

I mean... just that. Age does not come with wisdom. That's just a stereotype.

If you think the average child has the same intellectual and emotional


maturity as a young adult, despite the fact that the human brain, biologically speaking, is


a work in progress until about the beginning of your 20's, then you're simply wrong.

Anyway. you got an interesting point of view I can say, just one thing.


I don't believe it is stupidity that makes someone go with the flow of the hype.


There might be several rational or irrational reasons.


Hey I don't know why anyone should be aboard the hype train, but I know  everyone has a reason when doing something.

Care to provide a rationale for buying into hype?


Buying into hype is, as far as I am concerned, irrational by definition.


When irrational behavior continues despite experiences being clear indications of a person's failed assumptions


about reality, I don't really know what else to call that except stupidity.


A person having a reason to do something, does not mean that it's a good reason, and if


you find yourself doing things for bad reasons often, and you don't correct your behavior,


that suggest to you that you don't learn from your mistakes, and that is again, something


I don't know what to call except stupidity.


Sure, it's a mean term. Maybe I should be more PC and call it uneducated, or qualify it in another way -


but seriously - if you're in your teens, or above, and you've been burned before - how do you justify


hype without being either A.) willfully ignorant, or B.) incapable of learning from experience.


Whatever the case might be, are we really going to blame "evil corporations" for feeding us hype,


with the above being the case?

 

[hiromu656]

Companies do advertise a lot, that's their job, they need to generate interest in their game to increase their sales. They put it in our faces and then the consumers are who create the "hype train", it's not Bethesda's fault that hype was created, the people interested in the game did that. We can't expect them to just stay in the shadows until its time to release and have their game completely overlooked. Consumers are the only ones to blame for hype, and the ones to blame for disappointment. They're doing their job to give us something to get excited for and its up to the consumers to respond accordingly, many times with how we spend our money. If you were burned recently by an "over hyped" game, then be more weary next time. I actually think hian is exactly right with what he says, consumers need to learn from their mistakes, and make the developers (and publishers) respect just how much power you have. Because if we as consumers will buy anything a shiny named Developer throws at us, they can disappoint us all they want because we keep accepting it anyway.

I personally don't pre-order anymore, after Dragon Age 2 to be exact, but there's nothing wrong with preorders. It's just like reserving tickets to events, you need to be smart about your decision if you don't want to be disappointed. With how easy it is to view games before buying yourself (video leaks, review copies, streaming) you should never fall for "hype" it's all on you.

 

[Pine]

So, why don't we talk about hyped games that lived up to expectations?

GTA V was super hyped, and let's just face it. It is (specially with updated graphics) a masterpiece. Some people have issues with the story and the protagonists and that they don't hold a candle to Niko Bellic. But overall, this game is pretty awesome.

Anyway, yeah. GTA V, hype, lived up to.

 

[_Shadow_]

Care to provide a rationale for buying into hype?

My words:

"Anyway. you got an interesting point of view I can say, just one thing. I don't believe it is stupidity that makes someone go with the flow of the hype. There might be several rational or irrational reasons. Hey I don't know why anyone should be aboard the hype train, but I know  everyone has a reason when doing something. "

First things first, I didin't combined hype with rational decision making.  

 

Here comes an answer though!

Depends on the reason you are buying into hype really.

Well if I would really trust a company enough to pre order something, hype wouldn't be needed I suppose.

Trust is one reason. Is it rational? Maybe. But probably not, just to be realistic.

Trust is one reason, another reason would be correct motivations.

As I said, I bought Minecraft for $15 on beta. On release it was $20. That 25% discount was a really good reason to buy the beta before release.

If a company wants to reward its loyal backers or the early adopters if this term appeals, then instead of demanding something in full price with just a few extra stuff, they could do at least one of these:

A] A significant discount (going along with the hype)

B] A LOT of extra content, that would be acceessible by others... but for a price.

C] Exclusive USEFUL stuff.

"Whatever the case might be, are we really going to blame "evil corporations" for feeding us hype,with the above being the case? "

I think I made myself clear already. I blame no company for doing marketing. No seriously. It's a game. Marketing tries to sell on the highest price, customer tries to buy on the lowest. So simple. If Marketing it's the customer's fault for not playing right. I talk for the times that hype hurts the game directly or indirectly. I am not trying to debate if marketing should exist or not.

So, why don't we talk about hyped games that lived up to expectations?

GTA V was super hyped, and let's just face it. It is (specially with updated graphics) a masterpiece. Some people have issues with the story and the protagonists and that they don't hold a candle to Niko Bellic. But overall, this game is pretty awesome.

Anyway, yeah. GTA V, hype, lived up to.

First off whoever had issues with GTA scenario was not serious. If someone wants games with deep scenarios, they try Bioware games for instance. I mean seriously? GTA is GTA.

Yes GTA V by the way was nice.

Skyrim too. There was too much hype. I was like "Yeah, like  Oblivion... I will wait and see" but then I took an arrow in the knee. The game was pretty nice indeed. And it had epic hype.

There are sometimes though, that this might go wrong. That is what I wanted to argue about.

My favorite:

Don't think my thread as a statement. Remember, this thread is really a question. I had a reason to start this. I want to listen to other people opinions and compare them to my thoughts on this. I strongly believe that sharing points of view, make you a beholder a person that can understand things better.

Companies do advertise a lot, that's their job, they need to generate interest in their game to increase their sales. They put it in our faces and then the consumers are who create the "hype train", it's not Bethesda's fault that hype was created, the people interested in the game did that. We can't expect them to just stay in the shadows until its time to release and have their game completely overlooked. Consumers are the only ones to blame for hype, and the ones to blame for disappointment. They're doing their job to give us something to get excited for and its up to the consumers to respond accordingly, many times with how we spend our money. If you were burned recently by an "over hyped" game, then be more weary next time. I actually think hian is exactly right with what he says, consumers need to learn from their mistakes, and make the developers (and publishers) respect just how much power you have. Because if we as consumers will buy anything a shiny named Developer throws at us, they can disappoint us all they want because we keep accepting it anyway.

I personally don't pre-order anymore, after Dragon Age 2 to be exact, but there's nothing wrong with preorders. It's just like reserving tickets to events, you need to be smart about your decision if you don't want to be disappointed. With how easy it is to view games before buying yourself (video leaks, review copies, streaming) you should never fall for "hype" it's all on you.

You are right about who creates the hype. But who initiated that? There was a hype builder countdown and you all know that.

don't get me wrong. I digg this! They did a magnificent job with a great trailer, but I wouldn't buy that just with so little material.

" They're doing their job to give us something to get excited for and its up to the consumers to respond accordingly, many times with how we spend our money. "

I think I already mentioned that on this comment just before. 100% aggree with you!

" Consumers are the only ones to blame for hype, and the ones to blame for disappointment."

My question is still the same though. Does that hype hurt the game in the long run?

"Consumers need to learn from their mistakes"

"People MUST learn from their mistakes" I can say in general.

But they don't learn. That's what I meant when I said :

"You know that in fact most of the people are just kids that aged right? 

Age does not come with wisdom. That's just a stereotype."

I have met people that are 50+ years old and learned very little from life. Maybe because they reached a state they think they know everything. Whatever.

On the other hand, I watch young students and I am really delighted when I find one who has learned how to learn. This person already knows enough.

From @Hian's post:

"B.) incapable of learning from experience." My point exactly. Most of the people don't learn from experience (unfortunately).

No matter who is to put the blame on, there is a fact. A significant percentage of people react on hype with a predictable behaviour.

Companies know it. Is it bad to use or build hype? Yes? No? Maybe? THAT is the question.

I asked "What do you believe people about this?"

So everyone is on topic.

I would like to hear for the other question too though.

The question I am most interested to hear your opinion people still is:

"Does too much hype actually hurt the reputation of a title?"

 

[Clangeddin]

As far as I'm concerned, I could care less about the hype. If I think it's good I'll get it, if I think it's bad I won't even bother trying it out. I don't buy on Day 1 anymore, regardless of the hype, nowadays videos and images come out fast and an experienced gamer can tell if a game fits his tastes by looking at some media on the internet.

Now, if you're asking from a general point of view, I couldn't tell. Too much Hype will benefit the reputation BEFORE it's released, well, that's a fact I think. It should definitely help Day 1 sales.
The problem is how reality fares against expectation AFTER release. The higher the difference, the bigger the damage. (long term sales drop)

If the quality lives up to the Hype then there should be no problem at all.

All of this rigorously imho. I don't really have the data or studied the subject enough to draw a more analytical conclusion.

 

[_Shadow_]

Now, if you're asking from a general point of view, I couldn't tell. Too much Hype will benefit the reputation BEFORE it's released, well, that's a fact I think. It should definitely help Day 1 sales.

The problem is how reality fares against expectation AFTER release. The higher the difference, the bigger the damage. (long term sales drop)

If the quality lives up to the Hype then there should be no problem at all.

Correct. But that's what I am converned about. A game promoted without hype, being good might surprise the majority of gamers and make them feel really good about buying it. On the othe rhand, taking the SAME game and building hype that is above what the game can provide, raising expectations rises the risk of disappointment, even if the game is good. That's what I am asking here.

 

[Pine]

After E3. Can you really say FO4 hype is weird?

I mean, now that we know more about it, it looks a lot more like they hype will be justified.

 

[_Shadow_]

We still saw fragments of a "seems like a good" game.

To be honest there are companies that are really trustworthy.

For example, in my opinion, when you see "Bioware" you know that the scenario will be fantastic.

Bethesda also keeps high quality game standards. So I hope Fallout 4 will be really incredible.

I never expressed any doubt about it. I express my thoughts about some people expecting something unreal because of the hype and in the end get disappointed, while without any hype they could enjoy an outstanding game. Is the hype always being justified 100%? How can we be sure? We can not. Some of the players might get disappointed, thus hype might harm the game. That was my point.

 

[Pine]

We still saw fragments of a "seems like a good" game.

To be honest there are companies that are really trustworthy.

For example, in my opinion, when you see "Bioware" you know that the scenario will be fantastic.

Bethesda also keeps high quality game standards. So I hope Fallout 4 will be really incredible.

I never expressed any doubt about it. I express my thoughts about some people expecting something unreal because of the hype and in the end get disappointed, while without any hype they could enjoy an outstanding game. Is the hype always being justified 100%? How can we be sure? We can not. Some of the players might get disappointed, thus hype might harm the game. That was my point.

You see, now I'm confused. You keep saying hype, but I'm not sure we're considering the same concepts around it. I mean, who is really hyping Fallout 4 (just as an example)? If you mean the advertising and demo and future goodies (like the rad-looking real pip boy), then I wouldn't consider it hype. At least not from Bethesda's end.

And if you mean the hype gamers are making about it, can you blame them? I mean, Fallout 4 is looking like it'll be amazing. I think we cannot say hype hurts games per se.

 

[_Shadow_]

You see, now I'm confused. You keep saying hype, but I'm not sure we're considering the same concepts around it. I mean, who is really hyping Fallout 4 (just as an example)? If you mean the advertising and demo and future goodies (like the rad-looking real pip boy), then I wouldn't consider it hype. At least not from Bethesda's end.

And if you mean the hype gamers are making about it, can you blame them? I mean, Fallout 4 is looking like it'll be amazing. I think we cannot say hype hurts games per se.

No no no! The pip boy that you insert your mobile phone is an outstanding marketing idea in my opinion! This is not hype. Betheasda though, made a countdown hype builder and THEY KNOW these kind of things generate hype. I mean come on, they have a lot of experience from previous titles anyway.

Of course I can blame gamers for making hype. Half the blame goes to them, the rest goes to Bethesda. IF there is something to blame here. I mean to blame someone, there must be negative consequences first. That is what I am asking here.

I mean, what do we know about Fallout 4? "It will be amazing!" This is high expectations. Correct. Bethesda makes great games in general.

Now look. Let's say someone  gets TOO excited about Fallout 4. Let's assume it ends up look like Fallout New Vegas.

FO3 New Vegas was an outstanding game. A fantastic game. No hype on that and it is still fantastic.

If FO4 will look like New Vegas, someone  would probably be disappointed paying  60 Euros for such a thing.

On the other hand, no hype at all might make it a great game to the mind of the same person.

Finally to make myself clear, I watched E3 on Twitch. F4 seems promising, cause I SAW GAMEPLAY! Till then we aint saw **** though. We were just watching a trailer. Guess what, a trailer is not enough to make me pre order something on full price and at a 60 Euro price. No thanks. I can wait a few years to get it at a disount around 15 Euros. But that's another thing.

What really matters to me is people getting disappointed for no reason.

 

[Pine]

No no no! The pip boy that you insert your mobile phone is an outstanding marketing idea in my opinion! This is not hype. Betheasda though, made a countdown hype builder and THEY KNOW these kind of things generate hype. I mean come on, they have a lot of experience from previous titles anyway.

Of course I can blame gamers for making hype. Half the blame goes to them, the rest goes to Bethesda. IF there is something to blame here. I mean to blame someone, there must be negative consequences first. That is what I am asking here.

I mean, what do we know about Fallout 4? "It will be amazing!" This is high expectations. Correct. Bethesda makes great games in general.

Now look. Let's say someone  gets TOO excited about Fallout 4. Let's assume it ends up look like Fallout New Vegas.

FO3 New Vegas was an outstanding game. A fantastic game. No hype on that and it is still fantastic.

If FO4 will look like New Vegas, someone  would probably be disappointed paying  60 Euros for such a thing.

On the other hand, no hype at all might make it a great game to the mind of the same person.

Finally to make myself clear, I watched E3 on Twitch. F4 seems promising, cause I SAW GAMEPLAY! Till then we aint saw **** though. We were just watching a trailer. Guess what, a trailer is not enough to make me pre order something on full price and at a 60 Euro price. No thanks. I can wait a few years to get it at a disount around 15 Euros. But that's another thing.

What really matters to me is people getting disappointed for no reason.

But people like you and me who watch and follow Bethesda's games know that. They're targetting us. Fallout is a franchise that revolts around fans and loyal fans. Their advertising is not targetted at new people who have no clue about what Fallout is. Even without gameplay, fans will buy Fallout. I did, because the setting has always appealed to me, so when Bethesda is opening pre-orders for it, they're counting on its fans to get the game.

Worst case scenario is that it ends up as FO3 and NV, and those were pretty good too.

Now, don't get me wrong, there IS hype, but you always have to wonder who they're targetting with the ads and marketing. I'm paying full $60 because I want to play this at launch, not in 3 years.

 

[_Shadow_]

But people like you and me who watch and follow Bethesda's games know that. They're targetting us. Fallout is a franchise that revolts around fans and loyal fans. Their advertising is not targetted at new people who have no clue about what Fallout is. Even without gameplay, fans will buy Fallout. I did, because the setting has always appealed to me, so when Bethesda is opening pre-orders for it, they're counting on its fans to get the game.

Worst case scenario is that it ends up as FO3 and NV, and those were pretty good too.

Now, don't get me wrong, there IS hype, but you always have to wonder who they're targetting with the ads and marketing. I'm paying full $60 because I want to play this at launch, not in 3 years.

Tell you what. When Fallout was sold to Bethesda, I was really excited.

Then came an announcement of a 3D Fallout. And I was like OMG this is gonna be a failure, how will they make this work?

Silence.

No hype, no nothing.

Just a trailer with a radio and then, "War, war never changes".

And then Fallout 3 was released. Intro screen had one of the GREATEST and MOST EPIC music pieces I ever heard.

The game? It was good! If that would have hype, I don't know if I would be disappointed though.

On the other hand I admit it. Bethesda was listening VERY carefully to forums like No mutants allowed.

They did their best.

And here is why I ask people for their opinion.

The Oblivion had not so much hype and it was a disaster. Oblivion was too small if you want my opinion. I was really disappointed. 

Skyrim succeded though, under a lot of hype.






So bottomline, I can't make up my mind. Does too much hype actually harm a game in the long run or not?

That's why I posted this thread.

 

[AwesomeCool]

Hype does nothing but hurt games imo.

Hyping can lead to disappointment.

Going in with no expectations can lead to a game being surprisingly good.

The funny thing is that those two situations can apply to the same game for the same person (depending on there expectations).

 

[Seacliff]

Too little hype will mean the game doesn't get enough attention when it launches, which can be just as bad on how you look at it.

But this discussion is too focused on games that DID live up to the hype, let's change that.

Major games this decade that are commonly criticized with hype prior to launch or claimed to be overhyped in general:

-Destiny

-Watchdogs

-Skyward Sword

-Titanfall

-Elder Scrolls Online

-Duke Nukem Forever

-Assassin's Creed: Unity

-For some reason, many sonic games

Any and all add-ons to this list would be apprenticed, this was mostly on the top of my head, so I'm sure their is more.

 

[Pine]

Too little hype will mean the game doesn't get enough attention when it launches, which can be just as bad on how you look at it.

But this discussion is too focused on games that DID live up to the hype, let's change that.

Major games this decade that are commonly criticized with hype prior to launch or claimed to be overhyped in general:

-Destiny

-Watchdogs

-Skyward Sword

-Titanfall

-Elder Scrolls Online

-Duke Nukem Forever

-Assassin's Creed: Unity

-For some reason, many sonic games

Any and all add-ons to this list would be apprenticed, this was mostly on the top of my head, so I'm sure their is more.

But who hyped these games?

I mean, come on. Almost all that list is lite gaming. 

And in the MMO world, you can't trust hype no matter what. I mean, seriously. Their business model is built around pay to win or pay to play, so they will hype the crap out of it because it'll take some months before you realize the game is crap. But your money will be gone by then.

 

[sonofjay6]

Hypes on game and then failing to meet the expectations of the hype hurts if you're the type of person to already judge the game before you even get it. I on the other hand only starts to gather my opinions after I finish the game, also I'm not really the type of person too hate a game if the game didn't entertain me enough I'll just put it down(if I really can't finish it) and keep my opinion too myself instead of raging on gaming forums.

 

[Kes]

sonofjay6, please refrain from necro-posting in a thread. Necro-posting is posting in a thread that has not had posting activity in over 30 days. You can review our forum rules here. Thank you.