Fallout,Arcanum, Baldur's gate, planning assets

teeobi

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Is this the right place to ask how are games planned to completion from beginning?

Like, how much art is required for start to finish of a game relative to how many hour of gameplay?

Especially referring to western RPG since they have alot of sprites of unique character animations...
kinda like JRPG have alot of FMVs... or, sort of like that.

Maybe this is related to replayability.
 

MushroomCake28

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This type of thread have been done countless of times already.

The answer is: it depends on your game. Some games have very little assets, others have a lot. Is your game focused more on story? On art? On coding? Or perhaps music?

The process of creating every part of your game is different depending on people also. Here are stuff to design before starting (but not limited to):
- Story
- Characters
- World
- Battle
- Items/Equip
- Music
- Art
- Other systems (crafting, cooking, alchemy, basically anything).

The way and the order each of us proceed is completely unique: you can create your characters first, then the story, or you can start with the world, than the story, than the characters, etc.

There are tools to guide you and help you. I remember someone made a document to guide the character creation process. But honestly those are tools; you might need them, it might help you, but it isn't necessary for everyone.
 

mlogan

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As this is really related to game development, I moved it to General Discussion.
 

teeobi

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Okay Mushroomcake28, Eschaton, mlogan thanks for the answers.

Mushroomcake28 though your answers is too broad.

Say i have a limit on the gameplay time already.
How much asset do i require per that gameplay time?
how do i divide the gameplay time with each assets replay?


This project is for me alone.

i hope i am asking correctly...since the creation began from the art first than gameplay centric.
 

MushroomCake28

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Well I thought this was a general discussion?

1) What's the time limit for your gameplay?

2) Also, there is no such thing as number of assets / gameplay time. Some games are more condensed than others, and some games have a slow pace and even recycles resources. If you make an asset, you can reuse it later to save production time.

3) The planning and division of your production time depends solely on you. I personally don't spend much time writing compare to others, but I put much more time in composing music and coding a battle system than others.
 

teeobi

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1.) Let's start from 30 mins, like a single episode, and maxed at fallout 1 or common rpg which have almost unlimited replayability.

2.) ...Okay but, how is asset created in consideration to gameplay time then? There must be something ...or nothing?

3.)Ok cool. And this time for them is...infinite?
Eschaton would say it correctly, but what is it about core gameplay mechanic as a priority, when the assets have story value and so on?
 

MushroomCake28

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I think you have a misconception about assets. We don't calculate how much assets we need for x amount of gameplay. We plan what we need for a certain gameplay, and then we create all the necessary assets for that gameplay. If there's only 10 sprites needed, so be it. If you need 1000 sprites, so be it. A simple little forest dungeon requires a lot less than a huge open world. So you set your objective, then you create the assets, not the other way around.

A 30 minutes gameplay shouldn't be too long to make. If you're using only the default RTP assets, one day would be enough. he more custom you want it to be, the longer it will take. To give you an idea, during IGMC 2018, people had 1 month to create a unique project with a max 1h gameplay. 1 month is plenty enough if you keep stuff simple.
 

Sauteed_Onion

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Start. With. Core. Gameplay. Mechanics.
Not so much that I specifically want to reply to @Eschaton here, but the more I read of his posts, the more I come to completely recommend reading a lot of what this guy posts, him and @Wavelength both are extremely good advice givers.
Looking at a few other posts in General discussion might help to get a little more sure footed..

I've read in the past @bgillisp has recommended NOT getting much in terms of resources before you start getting some meat in your game, and that is probably a very good route to take, unless you're making the resources yourself. Still, Eschaton's statement here about starting with core mechanics really needs to be thought about. I didn't do this when I first started my game, and was all over the place. With a little bit of back tracking though, I salvaged my project, and been able to actually "work" on it. And the cool part about it is, I can always modify a system or cut something out too, instead of just sit around and think about it and stare into my computer screen for 2 hours and lose interest. I think a lot of people do that too, but from a few semi recen threads I read and looked at, I think the best advice I've seen was from the 3 people I mentioned here in terms of focusing up and getting it going.
 

teeobi

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I think you have a misconception about assets. We don't calculate how much assets we need for x amount of gameplay. We plan what we need for a certain gameplay, and then we create all the necessary assets for that gameplay. If there's only 10 sprites needed, so be it. If you need 1000 sprites, so be it. A simple little forest dungeon requires a lot less than a huge open world. So you set your objective, then you create the assets, not the other way around.

A 30 minutes gameplay shouldn't be too long to make. If you're using only the default RTP assets, one day would be enough. he more custom you want it to be, the longer it will take. To give you an idea, during IGMC 2018, people had 1 month to create a unique project with a max 1h gameplay. 1 month is plenty enough if you keep stuff simple.

Ok so, sprite and assets don't have correlation to gameplay duration of sorts? they're just accessories to game?
is that how it should sound?

what is the "objective" then, when creating assets?
 

teeobi

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Not so much that I specifically want to reply to @Eschaton here, but the more I read of his posts, the more I come to completely recommend reading a lot of what this guy posts, him and @Wavelength both are extremely good advice givers.
Looking at a few other posts in General discussion might help to get a little more sure footed..

I've read in the past @bgillisp has recommended NOT getting much in terms of resources before you start getting some meat in your game, and that is probably a very good route to take, unless you're making the resources yourself. Still, Eschaton's statement here about starting with core mechanics really needs to be thought about. I didn't do this when I first started my game, and was all over the place. With a little bit of back tracking though, I salvaged my project, and been able to actually "work" on it. And the cool part about it is, I can always modify a system or cut something out too, instead of just sit around and think about it and stare into my computer screen for 2 hours and lose interest. I think a lot of people do that too, but from a few semi recen threads I read and looked at, I think the best advice I've seen was from the 3 people I mentioned here in terms of focusing up and getting it going.
ok but what is it about?

core gameplay mechanic relation to assets.

I have heard this advice alot but the assets are ignored completely. It's a skeleton of a game.
 

MushroomCake28

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Ok so, sprite and assets don't have correlation to gameplay duration of sorts? they're just accessories to game?
is that how it should sound?

what is the "objective" then, when creating assets?
Assets are there to make your gameplay. For one project you can calculate the amount of assets / gameplay average duration, but you can't draw a correlation between both for all games. Besides, someone can finish a game in 20 hours while someone else takes 40 hours.
 

Sauteed_Onion

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Well, I think the basic idea is, making sure you have a solid idea of what your game is centered around, and the general mechanical aspects, maybe the hidden things going on that a player may not even see or directly interact with.. like the leveling system, is it going to integrated in a different way than what is prepackaged in with the software? Are you going to use plug-ins to modify your level up system? Can you invest skill points in something so that you can pick locked doors in the game? Is there combat at all? Mixed in with all that, a definite idea of a story start and a story end helps.. then make up the in between stuff.. Like game starts, you're a ghost trying to get a message to a little girl that could save her life, game ends, little girl becomes a spirtual medium and you're the spirit she talks to the most and you've taken over the wraith lands or something.. What happened in between those two points can fall into place as you make stuff up etc. What are the mechanical aspects of being a ghost like? Surely the normal concept of combat won't be a turn based throw grenades at a mech-armored generic bad guy in a post apocalyptic setting kind of thing, with no sense of customization. You want to think of the "concept" really of how the player interacts and advances on a mechanical level. That really needs to be figured out before you can do much in terms of making a game. It all kind of has to blend together. I just recently played a non-typical rpg maker combat game, where everything was contextual based, but the mechanic of "leveling up" was assigning points in a few stats. I could tell there was some thinking done in that regard. That is the stuff you need to tackle before too much progress can be made.

Now what does that have to do with game length? Everything, because if it's stale and been done a thousand times before, then a lot of people won't get into it. And also, I'm guilty of it, I wanted to create a "long" kind of game, but after playing a few shorter ones, I can appreciate the impact even a short 5-8 hour game can leave if you enjoyed the time you spent with it. So, even though I want to shorten my own game up some, I have to consider the core mechanical aspects. Not everything has to be some kind of 're-inventing' the wheel so to speak, but I changed up money accumulation, and kind of had hidden jabs at current socio-politcal silliness, side jobs, and working on the "leveling" system til I'm happy with it. I definitely had to wrestle with the just because I CAN do something doesn't mean I SHOULD do it things also. You'll get stuck in what may seem like, even may be, a never ending cycle that is probably gonna lead to some head aches that can and should be avoided. Somewhere in this long post though, I should mention, aside from just hoping to make a game, I've enjoyed just tinkering around with it to see what I can figure out, and going back and taking the time to look at other developers games. This has helped greatly for my own education, and saved me from probably going absolutely insane over thinking things. Anyhow, I hope this long semi-rambling message has helped.
 

bgillisp

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Right. I'd suggest you create the game first. Use placeholders until you got a significant portion of the game made and are committed to that game. Reason I suggest it is otherwise you will spend $$$$$$$ commissioning art and other things only to learn you don't need it anymore. In fact, we had a forum member who posted when I was new that they blew $10,000 on art for a game that they ended up not needing.

Even using placeholders and such I'm probably down $200 - $500 on extras that didn't get used in the end, so it is not completely avoidable.

@Sauteed_Onion : Yep. I had to take some things I wanted to do for this game and table them for my next game, else it was going to turn into the next Duke Nukem forever and take 13 years or so to make and release. I'm still going to be close to 5 in the end as a result of delays and working while making the game too.
 

bgillisp

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@MushroomCake28 : That's the amount they posted. Can't remember who it was or for what game, but I do know it is still not finished as I'd recognize it if they posted it under completed games.
 

bgillisp

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@MushroomCake28 : Maybe, or maybe not. I think I spent at least $3000 on my game for the art, music, sprites, and scripts I had to commission. Music is not cheap, especially when you order 50 tracks or so.
 

MushroomCake28

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@bgillisp Wow, I'm happy I can compose. I didn't spend much for my current project, but I intend to spend much more for my next one. But 10 000$ right off the start of the project, and for someone who's making his first game I assume, that's a lot of money.
 

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