Favorite Turn based Battle System?

Favorite Battle System?

  • DTB

  • TPB

  • ATB

  • BTB

  • CTB

  • ETB

  • FTB

  • OTB

  • PTB

  • STB


Results are only viewable after voting.

Willibab

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I realize some of these are more ''tick'' based but its basically the same thing, you wait for your turn and you don't actively run around :p

Explanations of each style:

I personally like CTB. Even though ff10 isn't my favorite, I always liked the battle system a lot.
 

HexMozart88

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OK, so I've always loved ATBs (I don't even know why, they're just more fast-paced and entertaining for me than default without the button spamming of ABS). I really like the BTB, though. Wish there was something akin to that for Ace.
 

AphoticAmaranth

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I like DTB/STB. I tend to prefer turn based battle systems where I can take my time to think about my next move, especially if there's lots of depth and strategy involved. Also, they're a lot easier to balance.
 

LordOfPotatos

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I think the ultimate turn system is ATB on wait mode with turn timer.

ATB has superior strategic depth (and more balance options for the dev to use like cast times) but full active ATB (as in the ATB never stops) breaks very easily as battle animations make everyone's ATBs sync up. unless you can run multiple actions at once but I haven't seen that done in MV (plus at that point you might as well do action combat, like FF7R).
and if the ATB keeps running while you select commands that's also easily broken (like in FF6).

so the only way to actually take advantage of ATB's strategic depth (as the developer) is to use wait mode. as in the ATB only progresses while no one has full ATB.

that leaves the battle tension factor, since wait mode ATB can get lethargic if you take tour time.
which I'd say is taken care of by a simple turn timer. when the command window pops up you have X seconds to input or the turn is gone.

so you get the strategy of ATB and the tension of inputting fast without the wasted downtime or the broken mechanics.

technically CTB is just wait mode ATB behind the courtain but CTB obscures the details of the turn order, wait mode ATB gives you all the necessary info you need to make quick decisions.

I've also tried mixing persona style press turn into this and it does work pretty well, though it does makes battles more volatile (as in you can very suddenly murder the enemy or get murdered).
Though I did notice ATB balances out press turn's volatility since you can't chain as many actions when the team's turns aren't synced up, so it's definitely a good formula I'll use for my less serious projects.

thanks for coming to my ted talk.
 

Cymaiden

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I'll always maintain that Conditional Turn Battle is a work of art. Perfection. Just the sheer potential for complex strategy is a thing of beauty for me. Press Turn Battle ala Shin Megami Tensei ranks a close second, but tying the turn economy to the party as a whole rather than individual characters detracts from the experience IMO.
 

RCXGaming

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Damn, what's the one where it's turn-based combat but you can see who goes first or pick between everyone's actions individually before the enemy gets to attack? The system in Paper Mario.

That's my favorite because I love having a lot of control over what my party members do.
 
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DrBuni

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Dragon Quest. Basic, fun, but it is too easy.
Pokémon is great, but also too easy and exploitable.
Press Turn System from Shin Megami Tensei, but I would prefer if skills like Debilitate, Luster Candy and Fog Breath didn't exist.
 

Tim_Seraphim

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Which one does Grandia/Child of Light fall under?
 

Ami

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for me (that's all i seen):
  • DTB seem easy to Predict the Target's Attack
  • ATB seem tactical to gain the Speed (like the proper Skills & Equipment to gain Speed)
  • TPB, is that same like ATB or different?
  • CTB, i was beating Mana Khemia back then (not sure if it's CTB). seem tactical to prevent the Target Movement
other than that, never knew that.
 

ArcaneEli

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I like ATB, but some games make it so much worse through hidden mechanics.
ex: FF4-6 has a cast time on some of their skills, so you can ready up all your party members, but then you're sitting around waiting for that summon cast time, and who knows how long it'll take.

Also I forgot what game did this, but bosses cheated through your ATB. So you can queue 4 actions, 1st one goes off, boss attacks, 2nd goes off, 3rd goes off, boss attacks AGAIN. Even though you had 4 actions before they moved, they hit twice cheating through your moves.
 

NamEtag

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We have so many acronyms at this point that I just procrastinated saying anything. I don't really have a favorite among the listed, because each is lacking core features that would tip the scales for me. The ideal I'm looking for would probably be:

1) ATB with much tighter control and mechanics around turn speed.
  • Crits impact turn speed, which impact the value of items(since they can't crit)
  • Enemy actions can be read and interacted with during their cast times, with room to add features for reading even earlier.
  • Tick scaling to slowest combatant, to cut down on waiting time and make room to showcase "bullet time" spectacle
  • The ability to allow ticks to progress without spamming imprecise guard
  • Formation/Equipment hotswapping, with or without penalties
  • Tick-based mechanics like regen and cooldown getting integration for scaling and more involved interactions
TPB gives up on most of these when they cut out the waiting time, and the base ATB structure cannot accomplish more than half of the above.

2) ETB but each character has a separate AP pool.
  • Later turns give everyone more AP, but fast characters scale earlier
  • A combo system with room for style hotswapping and mid-combo AP refills
  • Large-scale magic scales to rounds instead of AP, allowing very asymmetrical combat styles and justifying bigass magic numbers.
 

Milennin

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Standard turn-based, but where turns go like (all player characters) -> (all enemies) -> (turn end) and you can choose in which order you want to perform your character's actions. This is literal perfection in RPG combat system form. It doesn't clutter the UI with an ever shifting thousand faces turn order timeline. It keeps things simple and easy for players to get into. It's fast and responsive because your characters perform actions instantaneously. It allows for a lot of strategizing, providing character skill sets are designed around taking advantage of moving before or after other party members. At the same time, it also offers a form of consistency in knowing all your guys get to move before (or after) all the enemies take their turn, making it easier to plan ahead. There are no downsides to this combat system and no, you cannot change my mind on that (though I'd like to see you try).

Anything that has you select commands for all characters before they play out in some order (usually based on Agility) is... OK. It's the RPG Maker default and I can live with it, but I greatly prefer instant actions because it feels faster.

ATB with wait for command is pretty good, but the UI elements make things look messy, especially in games with large player parties and/or enemy groups because there's like 10 faces on some timeline that constantly move around and it's not pretty looking IMO. Also not a fan of any combat system with an Agility meta, especially if you have characters or enemies that can manipulate their speed because it can easily throw off your strategies. I always found it difficult to do planning ahead with these systems.
 

Frostorm

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Is it possible to have Turn Lapping with a Turn-Based system (as opposed to Tick-Based)? Turn Lapping is the feature I need the most, but I don't want to resort to a Tick-Based system due to the necessity of rewriting a lot of code.

edit:
There are no downsides to this combat system and no, you cannot change my mind on that (though I'd like to see you try).
Downsides? You are susceptible to all enemies focus firing one of your units one after another due to the turn order being all players -> all enemies -> rinse, repeat. Literally my most hated turn order system. Basically, it's Fire Emblem's turn order system...eww.

My ideal system would be something like OTB but with Turn Lapping. The chart illustrates that only TPB, ATB, & CTB feature Turn Lapping, but all 3 of these are Tick-Based...sigh.
 
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Milennin

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Downsides? You are susceptible to all enemies focus firing one of your units one after another due to the turn order being all players -> all enemies -> rinse, repeat. Literally my most hated turn order system. Basically, it's Fire Emblem's turn order system...eww.

This can happen with the RPG Maker default system too, or even other combat systems if the enemies just happen to have their actions lined up all after another. And in my experience, having enough enemy units piling up on the same player character to kill them in one go isn't something you see happening a lot (not without aggro manipulation or other edge cases or extremely bad luck).
I think if you find this happening a lot in your combat system, it's time to tweak your numbers or your enemy AI to avoid that. The random targeting that is commonly seen in RPG's will always have a chance to mess up players under the right circumstances, it just needs to not happen frequently enough that it becomes frustrating. But it's no worse than an enemy hitting several criticals in a row, or having your 95% accuracy move miss multiple times in the same encounter. These are things that can all happen in a system with random elements involved, and at times they can be part of the fun as long as they don't happen often enough to ruin the experience.
 

Frostorm

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Would having an internal counter for each unit in play increase by a value equal to the unit's Speed stat every turn and then granting the unit an extra turn (at the end of the turn queue) when their internal counter reaches a value equal to the sum of every unit's Speed stat (or perhaps some arbitrary value) reproduce the same effect as Turn Lapping? Wow, that was quite wordy, lol...
 

Silenity

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Would having an internal counter for each unit in play increase by a value equal to the unit's Speed stat every turn and then granting the unit an extra turn (at the end of the turn queue) when their internal counter reaches a value equal to the sum of every unit's Speed stat (or perhaps some arbitrary value) reproduce the same effect as Turn Lapping? Wow, that was quite wordy, lol...

That sounds right to me. It's how FFT/A/2 worked in a similar fashion. Basically a CTB system under the hood though; is it not?
Basically how it worked was you took an actor's speed, increase it by itself every tick, and the first one to reach 1,000 would have their turn come up next.

eg.

Actor 1 - Speed: 105
Enemy 1 - Speed: 85

After 10 internal ticks, Actor 1's speed would be 1,050 (105x10) so they would go first.
Actor 1 has 50 extra remaining speed that would then be used towards their next turn.
So they would have 50/1000 for their next turn coming up.

After 12 internal ticks, Enemy 1's speed would be 1,020 (85x12) so they would go second.
Enemy 1 has 20 extra remaining speed that would then be used towards their next turn.
So 20/1000.

Every tick they add their own speed until they reach 1,000+ and go when they do so.
This allows turn lapping when they get to higher speeds.

Source: https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/gba/560436-final-fantasy-tactics-advance/faqs/26262
 

LordOfPotatos

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Would having an internal counter for each unit in play increase by a value equal to the unit's Speed stat every turn and then granting the unit an extra turn (at the end of the turn queue) when their internal counter reaches a value equal to the sum of every unit's Speed stat (or perhaps some arbitrary value) reproduce the same effect as Turn Lapping? Wow, that was quite wordy, lol...
That depends on how your battle system handles turns.
If you have a way to force turns (like with a plugin command or by calling the turn function manually in a script call) you could make a ghetto CTB without coding anything in JS.
 

Frostorm

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This can happen with the RPG Maker default system too, or even other combat systems if the enemies just happen to have their actions lined up all after another. And in my experience, having enough enemy units piling up on the same player character to kill them in one go isn't something you see happening a lot (not without aggro manipulation or other edge cases or extremely bad luck).
I think if you find this happening a lot in your combat system, it's time to tweak your numbers or your enemy AI to avoid that. The random targeting that is commonly seen in RPG's will always have a chance to mess up players under the right circumstances, it just needs to not happen frequently enough that it becomes frustrating. But it's no worse than an enemy hitting several criticals in a row, or having your 95% accuracy move miss multiple times in the same encounter. These are things that can all happen in a system with random elements involved, and at times they can be part of the fun as long as they don't happen often enough to ruin the experience.
It's more about being surrounded by enemy units, or being able to surround an enemy easily. If Triangle Strategy used Fire Emblem's turn order system, getting attacks of opportunity would be way too easy and overpowered. Good thing it uses FF Tactic's turn order system though. A player/enemy phase turn order system like in FE makes focus firing, both from the player's and enemy's perspective, much more feasible.
 

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