Features Feedback

Discussion in 'Game Mechanics Design' started by Lunarea, Mar 4, 2012.

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  1. Raijinn

    Raijinn YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET Veteran

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    Thanks for the advice, will absolutely keep that in mind~!
    Umm, yes there will be a lot of dubs. It's just that I have very little time and hey, I'm just one guy so I might look for people to voice-act, since there are female characters as well. And even if there are only male characters, I would need different voices. So the voice acting part may take a while.. but there will be I promise. And plus I have school *cry* I can only do this in my spare time XD. Good thing summer break's coming along~

    And concealing the big bad huh... well I tried making a battler for it but it doesn't seem to work well... but oh well I'll try to do it in another way~~

    Thanks for replying~! @sabao
     
  2. Manofdusk

    Manofdusk Veteran Veteran

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    hmm, well I personally liked the dark shroud and starting off with a battle instead of a cut scene. If you want to keep it, see if you can have the battle fade in after the player's battler has already arrived (it felt like, to me, that the character was "waking up" here).

    During your presentation, it appeared that your terra skill was what you needed to advance the fight (if this is the case, you could have just the Terra skill deal damage to let the player know which skill progresses the battle)

    Your character has a collapse effect before absolute end plays.

    My only irk involving the villain shrouded in darkness is that he's down in the corner. I dunno why it irks my but my instincts say it should be square in the middle (not a complaint, mind you)

    also "noone" = "no one". IMHO, nothing will jar a player out of a cut scene faster than the little things like that :p

    Overall I very much enjoyed your opening cut scene. However, when you asked for opinions, my mind went strait into "debug mode" so this is what I got :p
     
  3. Raijinn

    Raijinn YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET Veteran

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    @Manofdusk didn't think anyone would still find this thread lmao. Thanks~!
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2017
  4. Raijinn

    Raijinn YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET Veteran

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    message deleted
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2017
  5. Titris Thrawns

    Titris Thrawns It's a trap! ...Or is it? Veteran

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    @Raijinn In my opinion, you have crafted an excellent introduction hook to your game! Looking at the current state of my project, I'm quite envious! As for things to specifically add? The next leg of the story :p. It sounds like you already have finishing the VA on the table and I echo what others have suggested, make the mysterious figure have a large HP pool that the player chips away at instead of the miss/zero damage we see in the video. Things to remove? *shrugs* Maybe take out the enemy's shrouding mist text pop-up? If you intend to use VA and sound to maximum effect, I like the idea of the enemy making weird/spooky noises that have no explanation. For me, that would amp up the mystery, tension and what not.

    Good luck with school! I'm looking forward to reading more about your game when you make an Early project feedback thread:kaoluv:.
     
  6. megumi014

    megumi014 Veteran Veteran

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    Hi everyone! I have been pondering about how to implement "luck" and some rigging features on a short game I'm planning, but it is still too undeveloped to start an early project thread. I hope this is the right place to ask:

    In short, the main plot of the story revolves around how to modify your own luck. There would be an invisible variable storing your luck, and depending on the quantity on it, the outcome of the game would vary.

    To increase/decrease that luck there would be moments in game in which you can realise some actions, like playing a game of dice: if you roll a D6 and get a 4-6 number you win, and if you win that means you are "lucky" and the main variable will increase (or decrease if you lose).

    I think that leaving every mini-game result to luck would not be that interesting as a player, so I thought of including some options to modify the odds of winning or losing them (like carrying a good-luck charm, or trying to "cheat" on a game in order to beat it at the player's risk), but I don't know how to apply that in variables/game mechanics. For example, for that D6 mini game you would have to "roll" a variable that picks a number randomly from 1 to 6, and you would have exactly the same chances of winning or losing, but if you carried a good luck charm it would be easier to get a 4-6 number (but still having the possibilities of getting a 1-3).

    If anyone has some idea or input and could share it I'd appreciate it :)
     
  7. Titris Thrawns

    Titris Thrawns It's a trap! ...Or is it? Veteran

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    @megumi014 a few mechanical ideas that popped into my mind for manipulating the 'luck/chance' of D6 mini-game you describe; When the player 'rolls' a d6, have the event coding give a 16.66% chance for each outcome (100% divided by 6 outcomes results in 16.66% for each number to be rolled). Have a conditional that detects if the Good luck charm is equipped (Or cursed luck charm if the player was to be the unluckiest?). This conditional can shift the percentage chance of the winning 4-6 up and shift the 1-3 percentage down (20% for 4,5 or 6 being rolled and a 13.33 chance for 1,2 or 3 being rolled for example). Depending how you want to have the player's luck stat change over the length of the game, you could have a global 'overall player' luck variable that effects every roll or action the player takes, similar to how the good luck charm example. In this global variable, the past player actions of 'luck building' compounds with collected 'luck' equipment. So at the beginning of the game, the player has the boring 50/50 chance of losing, but after 'power-luck grinding' the player can come back to the original dice toss and start winning 75-90% of the time (Depending on how you want to balance it!).

    Thematically, I would make sure there is incentive for the player to not save and reload for 'optimal luck outcomes'. That mostly depends on your end goals for the story you want to tell. Maybe have two other hidden variable tracking how many times the player 'loses' luck and 'gains' luck and have those variables affect the ending. If a player somehow 'never loses' in a game filled with 50/50 chance mini-games and they play 50-100 mini-games before the ending... I'd personally feel vindicated in calling out that player in the ending scenes/crawl in some humorous way.

    Anywho, those are my ramblings on your idea. I hope it helps! Good luck in developing it further:kaojoy:.
     
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  8. megumi014

    megumi014 Veteran Veteran

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    @Titris Thrawns thank you for your reply :)

    I hadn't thought about the save and reload aspect, but I will certainly think about something on the lines of incentives, since there will be not only mini-games but also dialog answers that modify the variable without being too obvious, so the player can't tell when to reload.

    About the percentages, it is the first think that I wanted to apply, but I never found the way to do it with RPG maker. To apply it somehow I thought of using multiple conditional branches but it seems a bit impractical. For example on the D6 roll, instead of picking a random number from 1 to 6, make it from 1 to 9 and then make smaller conditionals such as: if the variable is 4 or 5 set it to 4; if the variable is 6 or 7 set it to 5... to increase the odds of "being lucky", but I can't figure out how to code % to shift them accurately as you suggest :(
     
  9. Titris Thrawns

    Titris Thrawns It's a trap! ...Or is it? Veteran

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    @megumi014 Hrmm. I see how that can get complicated real quick. Conditionals within conditionals have been a challenge of mine while I hammer out mechanics in my current project, so I am all for finding a way to avoid that headache. I'll make it one of my current week goals to mess around with conditionals in relation to RNG, d6 rolls and finding if there is a way to have a 100% percentage base for d6 rolls through eventing. Hopefully I'll be able to cook something up and have a few screenshots for you by next Thursday. I use RMVXA, so hopefully the eventing can be easily translated/upgraded to MV, if I do hit on a solution.
     
  10. chungsie

    chungsie Veteran Veteran

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    @megumi014 wow that's a neat idea. I have seen recently a browser game where time increases your odds for success. It was really basic mechanics. As time progressed the ratio of odds:success changed to favor success rates increasing. The character walked until it needed to jump, if you just spam jump there are chances you don't make it.

    One thing I have been pondering in my spare time, as I create or enjoy other's creations, is the idea of connected stat appropriations. Luck for instance, may rely on a Pseudo Random Number Generator, or PRNG in most games, or a probability in real world applications, as well as charm, or other factors which go into having the world or people make decisions. So for say dice rolling, I would say that Integrity would play a huge role in the ability of the player to alter the outcome. Lower integrity would mean the player would simply cheat if possible, and higher would keep them honest. Or you could change out Integrity for Honesty. Whichever you prefer. But that's one way I would add a layer of mechanics to a random event in a game.
     
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  11. megumi014

    megumi014 Veteran Veteran

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    @Titris Thrawns I will try to keep playing around with the coding too, if I find something interesting I might just start a new thread based on that, maybe more people are interested on it too. For now I tried to avoid having multiply conditional branches as you suggested, scripting them. So far it doesn't work the way I want it (I feel like I lose more times than I win even at 50/50) and I don't think it would work for a long game, but I will post them under a spoiler tag anyways.

    I tried to stick to a 50/50 probability for now instead of a dice to keep it simple, and since I don't know if RPG maker stores many decimal numbers I made 2 versions to try them out and see if it makes any difference for when I try the whole game, one with a random decimal 0-0.9 and another with a random whole number 1-10. Variable 1 is the general luck.

    coin.jpg
    coin other.jpg

    @chungsie I really like that approach! I have always thought that it would be interesting if the stats in RPG games could make a difference outside the battles too. For example if you raised the strength of a character, that character could move a rock blocking a path leading to a treasure box. Or intelligence could not only raise your MP but also give you more advanced dialog choices and things like that. I was going to include the integrity aspect linked to the plot, but using it as a stat could be interesting too, thanks for the idea! :)
     
  12. chungsie

    chungsie Veteran Veteran

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    @megumi014 certainly! also, charisma could influence speech options. I think games like TES use SPeech Craft tree for dialogue and advanced conversations. makes for an awesome play through in my opinion.
     
  13. Titris Thrawns

    Titris Thrawns It's a trap! ...Or is it? Veteran

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    @megumi014 I'm woefully ignorant on RM scripting, so I won't be able to add anything to what you have there ;_;.

    But! I have confirmed that part of my eventing idea is feasible! It does involve conditionals though... But hopefully my screenshots are helpful.
    First one is what I imagine a normal roll of a d6 is on a 100% scale. This hinges on the 'random number' option in control variable is a good RNGenerator.
    ConditionalsAllDayEveryDay.png
    This screenshot was inspired by how to handle the player wearing or not wearing the good luck charm. Instead of typing out each individual conditional like the first screenshot, I use comment block to save space and hopefully illustrate how one can account for the luck variable.
    CommonEvents-Labels-JumpsOhMy!.png

    I haven't tested these events, but I'm thinking of making a mini-game in my next 2 week project to see if it works. If I implement it or if I come up with anything more elegant, I'll make sure to share it here. Hopefully that helps or inspires!

    I also like the multiple use of game stats idea! Reminds me of Planescape: Torment. Good Times.
     
  14. fireflyege

    fireflyege Magic is the destination of all wisdom. Veteran

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    Well I have the most trouble with making the classes, so I will include some ideas on my mind and will ask for feedback and suggestions from you.

    I like healers but not the healers that spam their strongest heal all the time so I thought I would approach it differently. I thought of windows the healers would not always have access to their strongest healing spells but are forced to do something else if they overdo it. This may sound insane but it is not, I do not want the healer to suddenly start DPS'ing of course, so I thought I would include the healer doing a thing very close to what she was doing, such as healing changed with shielding some of the time.

    Since I am not going to include mana problems on my game I am still going to force the player to balance the mana of each character with their own skills. I thought that my healer would have two stances.

    -First stance makes her heals echo on her targets and that echo also increases healing taken.
    -Second stance converts half of her heals to shields (so she will not heal as much but still contribute to defense) and will leave an effect that repels some of the damage they take.

    When she is out of mana which happens soon with 4 or 5 turns, she will be forced to change her stance with spending a turn. The change has a shared cooldown so she will not be able to change and then spend all her mana in strong spells in 2 turns and then change back again. The player can of course be in a critical situation but some of her item choices will give her mana regeneration.

    For example, a Tome of Grimoire will be her choices while Grimoires give her more sheer healing output Tomes are better for sustaining it with mana regeneration over time.

    That is what I thought, what would you think and would you get fun playing that kind of character?

    I also need suggestion for a mage character that is lore wise proficient with all types of magic. I do not know how can I make him reflect that in battle.

    I have things for an assassin too, so I guess there is a lot of planning to do.
     
  15. Yakly

    Yakly Villager Member

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    I have an idea for a battle system I would like feedback on!

    I’m calling it the Situational Choice System. A class/actor has a list of abilities, such as Attack, Counter, Defend, Dodge, Spells, Specials, Escape etc. However, unlike the default RPG Maker battle system, the entire list is not always accessible in battle. Using dice rolls, say only 3 abilities are available at a particular time. The player can use equipment or setup to affect the dice rolls, making certain abilities show up more frequently or less frequently. Maybe this weight could only be changed at town or camp, as a kind of battle prep.

    The purpose of this system, as opposed to both the default or a system involving simply equipping particular abilities to static positions (such as some of the FFs where you could actually unequip the “Attack” ability in favor of something else) would be to force the player to A.) Plan ahead preparations, B.) React on the fly as opposed to mashing Enter to select Attack every turn, and C.) Create unique battle situations where the player has to think, making each battle a game in itself that can be won or lost. It allows the system to mimic a wide range of complex battle conditions (i.e. a warrior doesn’t have access to his full arsenal or a full range of options 100% of the time), rather than every battle being a set, formal encounter.

    So for an example:

    Character X has the abilities Melee Attack, Ranged Attack, Dodge, Defend, Fire Spell, Gravity Spell. The player has equipped the character in such a way that Attack, Defend, and Fire Spell are weighted. So upon entering a battle, X will have, for example, a 75% chance to see the menu options Melee Attack, Defend, and Fire. The other options could appear instead, based a dice roll at the start of each turn, but would be less likely.

    Enemy Y, let’s say a ferocious bat, has stats such that Ranged Attacks against it are high damage but low accuracy. Melee Attacks have 0% accuracy natively, making that ability useless; however, if the Gravity spell is used, both Melee Attacks and Ranged Attacks now become highly accurate and highly damaging. Fire spells have high accuracy and moderate damage. The bat is a fast, accurate attacker, making Defend more useful than Dodge.

    The battle begins with a short text message showing an observation of the enemy (e.g. A fast and high-flying bat attacks you!), and based on a dice roll, X receives the menu options Melee Attack, Defend, and Dodge. Since the text message talked about the bat being both quick and high-flying, and the player knows that Character X has a low Evasion stat, if they use deduction they know that Dodge would not be a good choice. Similarly, if the player had been trained that flying enemies and Melee Attacks don’t mix, they can deduce that using Melee Attack will be a waste of time. Therefore, the correct choice for this round of combat would be for the player to choose Defend.

    On the next turn, another dice roll occurs. This might require testing, but an additional feature of the battle system might be that on each turn, only 2 of 3 abilities can reappear in the list (so that the player isn’t caught in a frustrating loop). Anyway, on the second turn, the player receives the options Ranged Attack, Defend, Gravity Spell. The player, having been trained previously in the battle system or tutorials, would know that a Ranged Attack might kill the enemy right away, but Character X’s Ranged Accuracy stat is only middle of the road, so that option might also miss. Defend is an option if the player hopes for a different dice roll, but it's not really the best choice. Gravity Spell does no damage, but has a debuff effect of making the enemy vulnerable to Melee Attack, as well as a secondary effect of giving a dice roll bonus to Melee Attack appearing in the list in the next round. Therefore, the player has two viable options: Try to get lucky with a Ranged Attack, or choose Gravity Spell and lose some HP from the bat’s attack, but make it highly likely the bat will die the next round.

    Later on, to provide more challenge, perhaps bats would get an Anti-Grav ability that negates a Gravity Spell… meaning character X would need to rely on the unreliable Ranged Attack or the Fire Spell. Further, enemies might have abilities that affect the player’s dice rolls themselves. For example, a Paralyze attack that reduces Ranged and Melee Attacks’ chance of appearing in the next round extremely low or even 0%.

    Some additional advantages of this system: The speed of battle could be made extremely fast (only three options per character per round means no hunting through menus; it could even be further accelerated by assigning the three options to three particular keys or buttons). Tactics and forethought would be extremely important. Having different characters specialize would be a requirement (i.e. you want someone on your team who can get Heal in their dice roll 99% of the time), meaning it would pay to have variety in your team. Field and environmental effects could be given particular attention (e.g. you are traveling in a swamp, which makes it difficult to move fast… therefore the Dodge option rarely appears in your ability list).

    Some challenges to this system:

    Frustration. Each round’s ability dice roll must not leave the player feeling helpless due to the system itself. It would be necessary to make sure the player always has at least one viable choice for each round, or, if they don’t have a viable choice, they know it is THEIR FAULT that they don’t (due to weighting their abilities incorrectly for the particular dungeon), not the game’s fault. To help with this, maybe there would be a “reassess” option where, once per dungeon, you could re-weight your abilities after learning more about the enemies there. Maybe there could be a “scout” option available before the dungeon, where the player could pay to learn more about what they will face. Or, there could be some sort of limit break allowing a player to FORCE access to other options, or to reroll a round. Or the Item menu could always be available, allowing the player to essentially battle with currency rather than ability. To further combat frustration, I could make non-boss battles not result in a game over, merely returning the player to the dungeon map with 1 HP?

    What do people think? Would this be an enjoyable system? My primary goal is so that battles are fun rather than tedious, and so that player skill has an effect on success.
     
  16. trevers18

    trevers18 #hippomaster Veteran

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    I added those changes. Thanks!
     
  17. ssunlimited

    ssunlimited Veteran Veteran

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    So in the beginning battles, someone who has played my game complained that there are some monsters you fight (not a high chance to encounter them) that you can't beat with everyone in the party level 1. I have made it so that you have to fight weaker monsters until you can fight those stronger monsters, but even though the chances of encountering those stronger monsters is small(er), you can technically encounter them at level 1. Then you'll have to escape and if you don't, you lose. Should I make it so that the first dungeon and others only encounters monsters you could beat? I want to know what would be a better game design. I've made it this way to make the battle system better. What do you think I should I do?
     
  18. Shaz

    Shaz Veteran Veteran

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    Are they evented monsters or random? If they're evented, and you can avoid them, I think that's okay. They'll lose once, reload their save file, and know to avoid them until they level up a bit.

    Too-hard monsters is a valid way to restrict access to an area until later in the game.
     
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  19. ssunlimited

    ssunlimited Veteran Veteran

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    Well the first fighting level is in the dungeon and all monsters are made in the entire map but the stronger ones have lesser weight.
     
  20. Tylerb2012

    Tylerb2012 Villager Member

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    If it suits you better I would suggest to have a set level you prefer them to be before hand say level 5 and what you want them to be by the end of the dungeon say level 10 work it up to where they can fight them with the right items, equipment, skills and keep trying to level up if they having a hard time it's ok its the growth of a rpg you struggle till you can do it then when you do, you feel OP
     
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