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Lantiz

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I really like the idea, bot being honest, I could not read all the OP :x
It really sounds like an improvement over the Persona games, the school life side of the game was great.
Sorry I can't advice you now
(I'm actually working on making some procedural generation plugins free for public use thanks to your other thread. :b)
 

Poryg

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I feel like we need strategic dating sims, becase I'm growing tired of sweet talking girls into becoming my girlfriends...
So I would be supportive of this idea, if it gets to be well made :)
I will separate this post to two parts, one will be reacting to your post, second part will be my general idea of what should a girl/guy be in a sim dating game.

Hanging Out and Talking
When hanging out with one person, your friendship level goes up, but by hanging out with more people everybody in the group's friendship level goes up more then with one. And this is where we get into talking.
Um, I kind of like this idea, but it needs polishing. For example, do you think they will be grateful if you hang out with three people who detest each other?
In all seriousness, I like the idea of increased interaction.... But then I don't understand why would you kill it like this. Every person likes different things, has different hobbies... And even different friends and enemies. So if you pick three people who hate each other, their friendship with you shouldn't go up, but be prepared for an awkward day.

If you talk to Girl A and say you like sports, and then talk to Girl B saying you hate sports, then Girl A will realise you where lying the whole time and be reluctant to hang out with you again.
I wouldn't be prevented from hanging out with somebody who tries to be polite by "agreeing" with me on everything while "agreeing" with someone else on the exact opposite. I would just not trust him with serious matters. I mean, how can someone not being honest prevent me from having a good time?
Not to mention, later you are mentioning friendships based on common thingies... Do you know how boring it is to have a friend that is your second me?
It is completely natural for friends to agree and disagree on things and I see no point to why it should influence friendships in any hardcore way. The important thing is if they have good time together or not. And 100% common interests aren't important to have good time together.

The idea of having a family influence you definitely sounds good too. Bonuses or new people to know.... Definitely sounds interesting...


However, your concept fails in one exact point, in which every dating sim fails according to my opinion.
Friendship points are just numbers. Personalities are just variable influencers.
This is a completely wrong approach... And is exactly why dating sims are 1. easy, 2. completely unrealistic and 3. completely make no sense.
Because when the human factor is completely missing, that means there is some kind of an equation that breaks the game. And you only need to find it.

In most dating sims the game characters are pretty much separated. Your actions and interactions with some completely leaves another ones calm. I was able to nail one game which had 60 girls to become my girlfriends... You had like 7 locations to meet girls, each one filled with them every period of the day. But these girls were completely separate from one another! They were only mine and as long as I paid them a 20 minute visit once in 3 days, everything was alright. I could still date new girls, nobody would care... However, that's not how it goes in real life!

In real life you have to fight more.... If sweet talking is enough, the girl usually has a weak heart and you can pretty much play with her emotions however you like. But not everyone is like that, just as you mentioned in your post. They have their own interests, hobbies, things they like and things they find attractive... They also react differently with each thing... And there is always space for randomness, initiative from their side... They don't just passively wait till you meet them in the mall or park till it's their turn for you to meet them. The world turns around you in sim dating games, which is fine, but it shouldn't completely turn around you.

Which brings me to another chapter. I have to disagree with the task of finding one girlfriend/boyfriend and then as many friends as you can... Because everybody is different! If the girl is in love with you, she won't try to stay friends with you. Or maybe she will to not lose friendship, but her being in love won't be unnoticable. However, there's also personality trait involved, even here. Some are intricate and will attempt to disrupt your relationship to win you over. Some will try to steal your free time... Some will attempt to use their natural beauty to attract you and basically make you cheat on your partner... Some will lose friendship... You can't just plan to find one girlfriend and then make rest into friends just because you are already taken... Which is why such limitations make no sense either... Because even the hero has a personality, but unlike NPC, the hero's personality can change depending on decisions player makes.
Which is also another chapter. You can have a hero that is a complete playboy, will try to get as many gfs as he can or just screw around and have loose friendships. Depending on girls' characters, some may be alright with it, some may not. Or you can be a clear, pure guy waiting for his princess.

And of course, this is another point which many sim dating games omit as much as they can. Action and reaction. Or action and consequence. A complete fail in many dating sims, because the actions have an immediate reaction, which everybody can see.... But nothing subtle. However, in real life it doesn't work that way.
There are rumors that may influence peoples' views about you. People who may randomly see you with someone, which can bring up a suspicion towards relationship. Girls are often friends with each other in such a way that they at least gossip in huge circles. And of course, when you're alone with a girl, but have a girlfriend, when the friend of your girlfriend sees you two together alone, it is very suspicious... And I could continue.

I'm not going to continue though, because I would write too long of a post.
To wrap it up, this is what many dating sims are missing. A slice of life.
 

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Extremely interesting though this is, 'Game Mechanics Design' is not for feedback on individual, specific games.

I could merge this with Features Feedback, or you could create an Early Project thread by copy/pasting your OP. If you want to do that, I will close this thread. Please post which you would like - though note, due to my time zone I'm not going to be around now until what is, for me, the morning.
 
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@Kes Yeah I think you're right. I'd rather like to keep the comments people have already posted here so I can reply to them.. whichever of those options keeps the comments would probably be the best option.
 

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Both would keep the comments together, so that still doesn't tell me which you want (has to be one or the other). However, in Features Feedback, other people will be posting with their queries. So, if you want to keep all comments permanently together you will have to start an Early Project thread. But that is more work for you initially.
 
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@Kes Oh dang, I guess merging it with Features Feedback sounds like a better idea-
 

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[mod]Merging this with Features Feedback[/mod]
 
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@Kes Wait, that's what merging ment!? I thought it ment moving this to another board! Sorry, I'm an idiot, should I quote from here and remake the post on a different board? If this is merged then it's harder for people to find this post and reply to it or give ideas, and I lost the large reply I was working on in the other board and don't know how to get it back.
 
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@Kes Sorry I am getting way too stressed over this, apologises about pinging you twice here.
 

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@SomebodySomething Yes, this is what 'merging' means, it is not the same as 'moving'. This is why I mentioned that other people would be posting with their queries, and asked you if you wanted to create a separate thread (which would go in Early Project Feedback).
 
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@kranasAngel Apologies for the wait, I was writing this up earlier and I can't find the draft I had anymore. I still have the pictures I made luckily.

You may also want to have characters hang out differently based on personality. Shy characters may not hang out in big groups, while suspicious characters won't hang out with you one on one until you raise your affection level enough.
This is a really cool idea, and I didn't think about this angle to it at the time at all! I can really see this being really fun ingame.

This is a really cool idea, and I didn't think about this angle to it at the time at all! I can really see this being really fun ingame.
I like the idea of changing interests but they should be events not random. Maybe during a sports date with Boy A he has a 20% chance to break his leg, and if that happens he'll lose his interest in sports.
This is the part I made a lot of pictures on. I don't remember exactly what I was talking about in this part before the pictures. I think you're right about the randomisation, I can see it being really cheap if you're friends with lets say Boy B because he likes art and you're using him to get Girl B, and suddenly Boy B hates art and is talking about Science might either be cheap or, a way to get the player to change tactics. Anyways, here's the pictures I made earlier.





This is a really cool idea, and I didn't think about this angle to it at the time at all! I can really see this being really fun ingame.
Yeah you're right about that. I still want to have some kind of system where other characters who get close have a likelyhood of getting together too ingame, but I haven't thought about that enough to get any outstanding ideas for it.
 

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@Poryg
Um, I kind of like this idea, but it needs polishing. For example, do you think they will be grateful if you hang out with three people who detest each other?
In all seriousness, I like the idea of increased interaction.... But then I don't understand why would you kill it like this. Every person likes different things, has different hobbies... And even different friends and enemies. So if you pick three people who hate each other, their friendship with you shouldn't go up, but be prepared for an awkward day.
Yeah I haven't thought enough about personalities and interests. I have a few bits about it in the previous reply here to kransasAngel but I don't have many ideas on how to make it really shine. I'd like to have the protagonist start out with a neutral standing to everybody to keep it easier in that sense.
upload_2017-8-27_15-17-21.png

I wouldn't be prevented from hanging out with somebody who tries to be polite by "agreeing" with me on everything while "agreeing" with someone else on the exact opposite. I would just not trust him with serious matters. I mean, how can someone not being honest prevent me from having a good time?
Not to mention, later you are mentioning friendships based on common thingies... Do you know how boring it is to have a friend that is your second me?
It is completely natural for friends to agree and disagree on things and I see no point to why it should influence friendships in any hardcore way. The important thing is if they have good time together or not. And 100% common interests aren't important to have good time together.
I see what you mean with agreeing, I think this might be another thing related to the personality system I need to work on. I didn't talk about this too much in detail, but this is somewhat related to the second part of the strike system I put in.

upload_2017-8-27_15-33-45.png

However, your concept fails in one exact point, in which every dating sim fails according to my opinion.
Friendship points are just numbers. Personalities are just variable influencers.
This is a completely wrong approach... And is exactly why dating sims are 1. easy, 2. completely unrealistic and 3. completely make no sense.
Because when the human factor is completely missing, that means there is some kind of an equation that breaks the game. And you only need to find it.

In most dating sims the game characters are pretty much separated. Your actions and interactions with some completely leaves another ones calm. I was able to nail one game which had 60 girls to become my girlfriends... You had like 7 locations to meet girls, each one filled with them every period of the day. But these girls were completely separate from one another! They were only mine and as long as I paid them a 20 minute visit once in 3 days, everything was alright. I could still date new girls, nobody would care... However, that's not how it goes in real life!

In real life you have to fight more.... If sweet talking is enough, the girl usually has a weak heart and you can pretty much play with her emotions however you like. But not everyone is like that, just as you mentioned in your post. They have their own interests, hobbies, things they like and things they find attractive... They also react differently with each thing... And there is always space for randomness, initiative from their side... They don't just passively wait till you meet them in the mall or park till it's their turn for you to meet them. The world turns around you in sim dating games, which is fine, but it shouldn't completely turn around you.

Which brings me to another chapter. I have to disagree with the task of finding one girlfriend/boyfriend and then as many friends as you can... Because everybody is different! If the girl is in love with you, she won't try to stay friends with you. Or maybe she will to not lose friendship, but her being in love won't be unnoticable. However, there's also personality trait involved, even here. Some are intricate and will attempt to disrupt your relationship to win you over. Some will try to steal your free time... Some will attempt to use their natural beauty to attract you and basically make you cheat on your partner... Some will lose friendship... You can't just plan to find one girlfriend and then make rest into friends just because you are already taken... Which is why such limitations make no sense either... Because even the hero has a personality, but unlike NPC, the hero's personality can change depending on decisions player makes.
Which is also another chapter. You can have a hero that is a complete playboy, will try to get as many gfs as he can or just screw around and have loose friendships. Depending on girls' characters, some may be alright with it, some may not. Or you can be a clear, pure guy waiting for his princess.

And of course, this is another point which many sim dating games omit as much as they can. Action and reaction. Or action and consequence. A complete fail in many dating sims, because the actions have an immediate reaction, which everybody can see.... But nothing subtle. However, in real life it doesn't work that way.
There are rumors that may influence peoples' views about you. People who may randomly see you with someone, which can bring up a suspicion towards relationship. Girls are often friends with each other in such a way that they at least gossip in huge circles. And of course, when you're alone with a girl, but have a girlfriend, when the friend of your girlfriend sees you two together alone, it is very suspicious... And I could continue.

I'm not going to continue though, because I would write too long of a post.
To wrap it up, this is what many dating sims are missing. A slice of life.
Wow, dang. Yeah you're right. There's a lot of stuff in there that's really interesting. I can't really think of a reply here, I'd love to hear more of what you have. I didn't really think too much about rumours and subtle reactions, I can imagine that being turned into something really really interesting. Thanks for posting this.
 

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Poryg

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You're welcome. I dare to say, dating sims are my field of expertise :D (Not that there are that many dating sims worth mentioning out there btw.)
I'd like to have the protagonist start out with a neutral standing to everybody to keep it easier in that sense.
There's this thing called first impression. So I would make it instead that you would create your character from several available traits. Because some will think you're handsome, some will not... Those that will think you aren't their type won't ever enter a relationship with you (welcome to the friendzone)... And things like that. But it is pointless to make everyone's relationship the same. Or maybe boosts for future or something... Anything to keep it from the main hero just being a complete blank canvas with nothing interesting.

As for liking or hating among each other, it is up to you if they should be set or randomised. Set makes for one same background, randomized creates a different story each time you create a new game. Set is also much easier to make than randomised. It is up to you in which direction you want to lead the game.
Again, having friends with personalities that kinda clash isn't a bad thing, just like having different hobbies. If you have a friend, it is because you have a good time with them, not necessarily because you share hobbies or are similar. I have friends who are total opposites to me and so what? I also have a friend that is similar to me. We aren't nearly the same, but we can understand each other fairly well. Having both is better than having only one. It is just necessary to remember several things.
People change and friendships with them, depending on various influences.
Friendship means different things for different people depending on the level of trust.
Fun times make friends, but hard times are the ones that test them.

The personality system shown with lying is definitely is nice :) Just don't forget that it is also dependent on how grave the thing is. If you cheat on your girlfriend, but hide it in front of her, that will be enough to turn many friends away from you if they find out.

It's difficult for me to mention anything new right now... I'm pretty tired and all things I wanted to mention just dissipated... But I'll be sure to keep you updated.
 

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The thing I don't like about relationship simulators is how one directorial they tend to be. You have a single stat that is meant to scale from haters to lovers, but people don't work that way. You can love and hate someone at the same time not to mention all the other things people can be to you. Maybe split up the relationship stat into several different stats. Like you would have romantic love, friendship, hate, fun, hobby, ect. It gives the system more end goals and more depth. (Right now it seems like a lot of complexity to do just one thing?)

It also sounds like a dialog heavy game so let me throw out a idea. Buying choices with a finite resource. Like lets say you have 30 charm points, you could spend 20 in order expertly flirt with someone you never meet before. The 20 points you spent are now gone forever and oh what is this a choice that requires 30 charm points to take. Maybe I shouldn't have flirted. It adds more weight to your choice as every choice now has a identifiable interaction with every other one you make.
 

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I just had the besttttt idea everrrrrr!!! What about a game, where you are contestant on a reality show? This may sound boring, but wait! How about, you were stuck in a house with random people and what you say to other contestants affects who goes home, you, or contestants. Then compete in timed puzzle solving minigames to become the ruler, and decide who will be put on the chopping block. I really like the idea of always having to be careful what you say as you climb your way to the top. How does this sound to you? (it is just an idea now, not a game.)
 

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Well, I've seen worse ideas.

So, Big Brother-style, or Who Wants To Be A Superhero-style challenges? ;)
 

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@Warpmind Big brother style, as I think there should be a huge emphasis on choices.
 

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Oh, there were plenty of choice in Who Wants To Be A Superhero. :p
 

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[mod]Merging this with Features Feedback[/mod]
 
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So I have a few ideas for this map system I want to use in my games, but I'm not entirely sure how to code it or if my ideas make sense.
Here's what I got so far:



If anybody has any advice on how to do this better or in a way that takes less time to set up, I'd love to hear anything you got.
 

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