Female characters

[Kes]

I agree about the characterisation of strong female characters - they should be strong and interesting in their own right and not simply because they don't fall into a stereotyped category.  Having said that, there are, as I said above, some female characters that do meet these criteria, Marine, Rayanne, Luciana were all mentioned.  And they are interesting in part because as characters they grow.  I think the problem with having someone (male or female) as pure badass is that in fact that's a bit one-dimensional as well.  An interesting badass character is one who has more going for them than just that.

In my (almost) complete project (3-4 weeks to go, I hope no more than that) I have 50/50 female/male characters and IMO the female characters are as strong and as multi-faceted as the male ones.  Certainly none of them falls into the weak/maternal/only love interest/bikini chainmail categories, but inevitably I'm biased in their favour!

 

[Tsukihime]

My impression is that, at least for some developers, they're making games for the purpose of making money, not to express their opinions. If they feel that their audience is full of alpha males that believe women are second-rate, then they will probably want to put more emphasis on a very masculine character that allows the player to place themselves in the shoes of the hero. For the marketing team, they'd have to think "would these men bother to even look at the game if they saw a girl on the cover?"

This requires a female lead and quite a big number of recruitable characters in the game unless it really has 70-80% of girls. And, does a female animal or monster or non-humanoid still count as a girl?

The way I solve that problem is to kill off the guys so that my party only has girls actively participating.


Obviously, this strategy runs into problems when, for example, you're forced to leave the girl behind and run through a scenario with only male characters for whatever reason.


Which is why I prefer games like fire emblem where there is an abundance of women to choose from and can still form a balanced party (without killing off the guys)

 

[orochii]

At my game, for PCs I have 50% females, 40% males and 10% genderless. Main character is a female. And this is not a porn game. Still I didn't cared too much about genders, I cared mostly for diversity (I've got a slime man <3 which is genderless because is just "man by omission").


For characters, all I think is about their development, and their definition. I like to think about them as if they had a real life. Sure, a person can live an entire childhood between the love of his parents and doing random silly childish things and happy life whatever. But I don't like the kind of worlds where all is happy-happy and this bad guy suddenly appears and ruins everything (where all just pops and voilà). I like that to be progressive too, and even on the most prosperous times to be an imperfect prosperity, and so I am in an urge to reflect that inside the character's personalities, life and whatever else. And there's also a thing of mine where I just inject some dramatic events and serious problems. I LIKE MAKING MY CHARACTERS SAD! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!


Stereotypes don't reflect any of those. It makes the characters to not relate at all with their environment. Either males, females, whatever. You can random that variable and that doesn't has to matter at all. Make some hermaphrodites if you want, or a rat with pants. What really matters is the way you convey the character's personality and their surroundings.


I'm not the best on that matter of character personality construction, but I do my best to fulfill my own convictions,


Orochii Zouveleki

 

[Volrath]

I think a problem that comes up with these discussions (one of them, at least) is that dudes assume writing a female character is drastically different than writing a male one....but really, it's not. They're not an alien species, they're human beings and we all have at least some idea of how human beings are. The stereotypes are a lot different, but we shouldn't be relying on those anyhow. I'll let George R.R. Martin sum it up:

Spoiler

 

[Celianna]

My impression is that, at least for some developers, they're making games for the purpose of making money, not to express their opinions. If they feel that their audience is full of alpha males that believe women are second-rate, then they will probably want to put more emphasis on a very masculine character that allows the player to place themselves in the shoes of the hero. For the marketing team, they'd have to think "would these men bother to even look at the game if they saw a girl on the cover?"

I think that's an incorrect observation to make. True, they are catering to a certain audience who view women in a certain way, but considering the statistics, women almost make up 50% of players. That's a huge amount to 'ignore' in favour of the other half. Obviously, in certain genres, it will appeal more or less women. But there's still a huge playerbase that's left untapped by ignoring this, and I don't think developers ignore the fact women play games ... I think they themselves are highly riddled with degrading views of women. So it's not that they make their games like this to cater to men like that, I think they make games like this because they truly and honestly believe those views.


Most game developers are still predominantly male, and I've seen many articles or reports about the statements these developers say about their female characters, and it's all pretty misogynistic. Currently, the creator of Penny Arcade springs to mind, and while he's not a game developer, he hosts an expo for indie developers, and he's made some remarks that demonstrate his views and alienates half his userbase; women. And there are actually a lot of game developers who sided with him.


So I really do think, it's less "Will male players play this game with a female character on the cover?" and more "I don't like playing as a woman, so I'm going to make the main character a guy.".


Also,

For the marketing team, they'd have to think "would these men bother to even look at the game if they saw a girl on the cover?"

Yes. There are games out there with female protagonists that serve as nothing but eye candy for men, and it definitely sells.

 

[Sharm]

I still remember how I felt being a girl and a gamer way back when gaming was still new.  Back then girls weren't even secondary characters most of the time, they were set dressing.  You would see them for half a minute on the screen while they said "thank you for saving me" before the credits rolled.  It was disheartening.  I felt like an outsider looking in at all the cool things that were only meant for boys.  I wasn't really allowed to like games, I was a girl.  It didn't help that I couldn't really get very far on any game that required precision.  Then Metroid happened.  My younger brothers were obsessed, crawling through level after level of strange alien landscape trying to find the next thing to open a door and shooting anything that got in their way.  I dismissed it as yet another game I could never really enjoy.  Then one of my brothers said "Don't you know?  Samus is a girl!"  My entire view of videogames shifted because of that one thing.  It was like the gaming industry itself was saying "You're invited too!"  I still can't manage precision gaming, have never finished a Metroid title and 3d makes me ill, but I am now a part of that gaming industry because of Samus.  I feel like I'm allowed to be a gamer even though I'm not good at some of them.

I don't need girls to be kick butt, I just want games where that is a possibility.  I don't need girls to not be super models, just want games where being less than ideal doesn't automatically make you a villain.  I don't need girls to never be the healer, I just want games where sometimes they're not.  I wanted to be treated like a human being, like someone who might buy your game, like someone who exists and matters and not just someone who's getting in the way of the boys having their fun.  Sad to say, I only really get that from indy games and RPGs.  And that is why I'm upset with the Triple A gaming industry.

Guys aren't going to buy less of a game if there's a non-sexy girl on the cover, otherwise Metroid wouldn't be a series.  People buy games because they're good games, because they're fun!  But when an entire industry says the exact same thing over and over again, it starts to effect the views of the people consuming it.  I agree completely with Celianna, it's a problem not because of the consumers, but because of the industry.  Worst of all, the misogynist industry is creating new misogynists and making girls believe that they either must fit that stereotype or leave.

Ahem.  So.  *Gets off soap box*  Yeah, I have strong opinions about the need for good female characters in video games.  Ones that are people not an object of affection, token female, pandering to feminists or any other stereotype.

 

[gvduck10]

Do I even DARE to join this discussion?   I don't think you will ever see a dating sim game that features a female lead, but I would still play it! (maybe cuz I'm gay and I don't care) But my best friend is female and she loves dating sims, she finds them enjoyable and the characters are just amusing, so long as the REST of the game isnt crap!

Anyhow, instead of having an opinion, here are some examples of games with strong female presence: 

Atelier Rorona - FEMALE title character (aloof, ditzy, but endearing) and I'm pretty sure more females than males overall

Bayonetta - definitely a kickass lead FEMALE character (God-of-War-styled game)

Dead or Alive - very sexualized, but more females than males, and some are pretty badass bruisers! Helena is my favorite!

Dynasty Warrior games - pretty large amount of female characters, again, not all petite flowers either (at some point, you have to accept that with the exception of Amazonians, there is historically less female warriors)

Final Fantasy 6 - as mentioned, one of my fav games of all time! Terra and Celes are both superb characters.

FF X - same number of males and females in the main party. More female Summoners than male Summoners in the world.

Final Fantasy X-2 - whole party consists of 3 female characters, BUT this game is mostly just fan ***ping nonsense >

Final Fantasy 13 - have not yet played this one, but main character is a female.

Heavenly Sword - definitely another kickass lead FEMALE character (God-of-War-styled game)

Sims (all of them) - female/male townies and newly borns are generated in equal numbers; gender of your Sims is up to you

Star Ocean: Second Story - you can play as either the male lead character or female lead character. Fairly balanced in terms of magic/fighting: 5 male fighters, 2 male "mages", 3 female fighters, 2 female "mages"

Metroid - as previously mentioned

Parasite Eve - female protagonist and female antagonist, 3 male secondary characters (small cast); also one of my favorite PS-1 games

Xenogears - ok, the MAIN character is male (Fei), but the story is so closely tied to him and his reoccuring lover (Elly) and the story features quite a few poweful women: Miang, the Elements (an elite fighting force), the Queen, Esmeralda, Maria (who pilots the most powerful Gear in the game, at one point)  

Spoiler

Miang wipes out all of humanity at one point!!

... I'll post more as I think of them.

 

[Celianna]

Already removed one troll post. Let's keep it clean.


@gvduck10: try searching for 'Voltage Inc. Otome games', they've got a load of dating games featuring a female protagonist. Of course, she's the stereotypical 'girl', meaning she is weak, says sorry all the time, needs men to come save her, and lacks a spine. You can see some of my reviews of the games here.


Though I agree there's barely any western dating sims for girls out there. I think Sprung (DS) could possibly be the only one.

 

[Archeia]

Do I even DARE to join this discussion?   I don't think you will ever see a dating sim game that features a female lead, but I would still play it! (maybe cuz I'm gay and I don't care) But my best friend is female and she loves dating sims, she finds them enjoyable and the characters are just amusing, so long as the REST of the game isnt crap!

Otome Games.
Amnesia, Wand of Fortune, etc. All have female leads and are in the similar vein as a dating sim. So they do exist. West, not so much unless you like Winterwolf's works.

 

[Celianna]

Otome Games.


Amnesia, Wand of Fortune, etc. All have female leads and are in the similar vein as a dating sim. So they do exist. West, not so much unless you like Winterwolf's works.

In that sense, indie developers do it a lot better; there's a lot of work in progress otome games made for a western audiences. Actually, I guess I'm one of them.


Sharm's got a point, it's the triple A big-budget games that miss the mark most of the time. Indies, especially those in the RPG crowd, are faring much better in this regard.

 

[gvduck10]

Sorry. I should've been more specific: I don't mean dating sims, I meant RPG games with a "dating element", such as Azure Dreams, Thousand Arms, Rune Factory Frontier, Star Ocean Second Story (which DOES have a female or male lead you can choose from, belongs in above list)

 

[MyLordRobinson]

I don't think Star Ocean the Second Story counts. It's sort of a mechanic to learn more about the party, but it can be geared as such. I don't believe it's to be taken the way you're assuming.

 

[Touchfuzzy]

I agree in that a female character being a love interest in and of itself isn't an issue, its when that is the only real purpose the character serves. They need their own stuff going on that has nothing to do with the relationship. And the man shouldn't swoop in and fix everything. Support is fine, but magic fixing is, meh.

I never really try to balance it. I just put in what fits the story. Usually it ends up pretty balanced, but sometimes its pushed one way or the other based on circumstances, and there is nothing really wrong with that. Not all stories can be balanced.

 

[Solo]

I think a problem that comes up with these discussions (one of them, at least) is that dudes assume writing a female character is drastically different than writing a male one....but really, it's not. They're not an alien species, they're human beings and we all have at least some idea of how human beings are. The stereotypes are a lot different, but we shouldn't be relying on those anyhow.

Amen, that was a beautiful way to put it. You've echoed my own sentiments and even encouraged me. Thank you.

I've always had a very broad, philosophical perspective on life, you know, like I said in the first post, "Why not," rather than "How?"

All are equal and it's truly tragic that so many people, especially in high places, have skewed views like this. They limit themselves, as well as others whom they influence.

My game (and all others I plan to make) has a large cast of characters, and half of them are female. I don't feel that I gave a thought to stereotypes; I simply designed them as characters; people, if you will. And it all came so naturally, because I miraculously wasn't conditioned to the mentality that women should be suppressed and/or confined to stereotypes. I never once thought, "Oh, well, she's a girl, so she can't do this," and frankly I believe that's a very dysfunctional way of thinking. It would make me sad if I thought about it too much.

Through my work, I hope I can help make a difference in this issue (as well as shattering other stereotypes/misconceptions, but that's another topic).

 

[MyLordRobinson]

I think the main idea is to not make generalizations about gender when it comes to characters. Remind yourself that your characters are just like people- they have their own rules, society, worldviews, flaws, wants, needs and fears. The fact that they are male or female should only make a difference if it's compatible to the plot. No one wants an Ashley Graham to follow you around the game screaming every time an enemy appears, just like it's useless to have a game full of Superman-esque characters with no weaknesses or personality.

 

[Solo]

I think the main idea is to not make generalizations about gender when it comes to characters. Remind yourself that your characters are just like people- they have their own rules, society, worldviews, flaws, wants, needs and fears. The fact that they are male or female should only make a difference if it's compatible to the plot.

I couldn't agree with you more; on generalizations, having your own rules, the works. It's something to be proud of!

But unfortunately I've reached my quota of positive votes for the day.  Else I'd "Like" your post, twice if I could!

 

[Touchfuzzy]

No one wants an Ashley Graham to follow you around the game screaming every time an enemy appears, just like it's useless to have a game full of Superman-esque characters with no weaknesses or personality.

Ashley Graham actually didn't bother me at all. She made perfect sense to the plot based on who she was and her life experiences up to that point. You weren't having to save her because she was a girl and useless, you were having to save her because she was a college student who had no interaction with combat in her entire life.

Having to save someone because they aren't really a combatant doesn't make it automatically bad writing just because they happen to be female. Now, it pisses me off if you have to save a female character who should be able to defend themselves.

 

[Solo]

The way I see it is that each of my characters, male or female, is an individual; a blank slate on which I carve the story of their lives. Gender, race, and/or sexual orientation should only add richness to the character, not restrict them in some way. And, like some of you have said, it doesn't even have to be the core focus of their story, unless it really adds something to the plot (and that's up to you).

The wonderful part about making a game is that it's YOUR world, with your OWN rules. You don't have to adhere to any boundaries of reality (which, as I said, we ourselves set anyway); you can even defy them just for the heck of it, if you wish. It's what's so rewarding, so liberating about being a creator. I can't imagine working under some ignorant restriction like that, nor do I really understand why people choose to do so. And I would feel beyond insulted if someone told me to change the gender of one of my characters "because the game would sell better".

I remember reading about The Last Guardian, in which the protagonist was going to be female, but the developers changed her because "Her hands wouldn't be strong enough to hold onto [the flying creature] and her skirt would get in the way when she's climbing a ladder". Umm... what?

Though, I guess the people who do operate in such a way are only going by their own life experiences and unenlightened views... which, as I also said, is sad... It's just beyond me (or I'm beyond it), so I shouldn't worry... after all, I have to focus on my own ideals. It's just a waste of time fretting over this... why not put our energies into making a difference?

 

[hian]

I could literally write an essay on this topic, but in short, what a lot of people need to remember is perspective.

Stereotypes and card-board cutout characters are not limited to female characters, in fact the majority of all game characters are exactly that. That's an issue stemming from limited hardware, and then later, tradition within game creation due to developers using previous best-sellers as blue prints for new games, and the fact that the vast majority of story writers in gaming are male and therefore will write something that is appealing to them and reflect their experience of the world.

Even though I am for variation within my game, if I were to write a game as a reflection of my experiences, my game would feature a majority of males, and probably many uninteresting female characters, because that's honestly how my surroundings have been in real life.

That being said, I recognize that my experience is not representative of the majority of reality, and for that reason I don't apply that experience to my stories. My favourite composers are largely women, and some of my favourite characters are women too.

The problem a lot of people seem to have, boils down to lack of perspective and confirmation bias in their analysis though.

In jrpg tradition, there are plenty of good female characters - to name a few of the top of my head - terra, quistis, selphie, lightning, yuna, and pain stand out to me from the ff series. All of them either break from convential stereotypes, or start out in a stereotype which they then evolve beyond.

Compare that the the vast amount of male characters in the ff universe that remain locked in stereotypes and never develope at all.

Edit: I can't believe I forgot Edea! My fav villain ever after Sephiroth. The way she turned out to be good made her even better imo.

In breath of fire 3 and 4 you both have strong and intelligent female characters that in turn save the male protagonist at some point in the game.

The Suikoden Series has a plethora of female characters taking on all kinds of roles, ranging from stereotypical ones, to stereotype breaking ones.

Rena from Star Ocean 2 is another good example of a female protagonist which evolves. Claude on the other hand, remains static.

I could keep on going.

To pretend as if games are even remotely uniform in any way shape or form, is disingenuous. It's a stratum, with a lot of different degrees of representation and quality of storytelling.

One problem is if you're working backwards from your conclusion. If you look for evidence while ignoring opposites, you will find what you want to find.

Case in point, if I write a female character that fits a stereotype, then that's wrong.

If I write her like I would a male character, then she's just "a man with breasts" and that's wrong too.

If I write her in a stereotype, but try to mark it as a positive(like a female using stereotypical female traits to overcome adversity) then that's wrong too because it means I'm telling women to "get back in the kitchen.

I've literary heard all these arguments, and what some people dont seem to realize is that they have then efficiently denied any and all ways of writing a female character all together.

What this has lead me to conclude with is that the only real way to address this is to put focus back on the male characters. If try to uproot and change your male characters to be more "female", it will truly take the focus off of the gender binary.

You can't destroy the gender binary just by focusing on one gender, because no matter how dynamic you make one gender, if the other is static, you'll still see a gap between them that shouldn't necessarily be there - and pretending as if male characters aren't generally more static in videogames than female characters requires major intellectual gymnastics.

Female characters have their share of peaches and lightnings - male characters on the other hand are largely divided into young shonen heroes and jaded (space) marines, when they aren't nameless fodder to kill or subdue.

In my game "The Last Legend", the main protagonist, is gender neutral.

Hir gender is never mentioned, and hir appearance ambiguous, letting the player decide for themselves how they see the character.

I believe this truly challenges the gender binary, because it doesn't require you to pick a sex, nor think of your character as a specific sex. It lets the player focus exclusively on the characters personality and story arch in and of itself .

That being said, the love interest is a sledgehammer wielding gyaru highschool girl who functions as the highest damage dealer, and the main characters bodyguard/guardian.

I'm not completely without thought for people who want representation and out of the ordinary female characters, even if I don't like the idea that we need to somehow influence others to make such games for us.

It is possible to have a nuanced mid ground position on this issue without going full third wave feminist, or misogynist asshat.

Just saying.

 

[Solo]

In my game "The Last Legend", the main protagonist, is gender neutral.

Hir gender is never mentioned, and hir appearance ambiguous, letting the player decide for themselves how they see the character.

I believe this truly challenges the gender binary, because it doesn't require you to pick a sex, nor think of your character as a specific sex. It lets the player focus exclusively on the characters personality and story arch in and of itself .

And I think that what you did was a true stroke of genius.

That's my philosophy... I'm not at all concerned about my characters' race/gender... but what they add to the story, how they can enrich the other characters and be enriched, and maybe even touch the player's life.

I say I'm not concerned, yet I endeavored to split my cast 50/50. Sometimes I find it hard to get my exact point across, but I'm trying. I guess what I really mean is that I don't feel like I have to dig into a big pool of stereotypes to write a female character, or ANY character. I just do it, guided by pure inspiration.