Final Fantasy is feared to be a dying franchise that has long passed it's peak to Square Enix...

gilgamar

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It really doesn't matter what "point" they "should" recreate, or if they should do something like that in the first place. No matter what they do, there will never be a vocal fraction of the fandom trying to shout over everyone else because the newest game isn't exactly what they wanted and is therefore terrible.
And this brings us full circle back to the question of if Final Fantasy is done and they should move on to new things.
 
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And this brings us full circle back to the question of if Final Fantasy is done and they should move on to new things.


It'd be absolutely stupid for anyone to stop making things that are beloved by many, many people just because a handful of selfish people can't tolerate games that people who aren't them enjoy.
 
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Ashouse

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This is something my nerd friends and I debate way too often. We agree that we are dissatisfied with the franchise in so many stinking ways. It seems, indeed that a generational gap kind of guides the way people feel about the franchise. It's like the younger (25 and under) gamers


are okay with things as they are (ffX+) and the older gamers fall into that "minority" of people who "complain" about it (roughly 25 to 35)... 18 to 35 generally spends the most money on games, so there is some overlap. Us 30 somethings seem to be getting overlooked. SURE it IS nostalgia setting in, but nostalgia IS IN! I would LOVE some well thought out story line similar in quality to ffVI, or something along those lines... something with the same "charm"... and the same "tired old mechanics that we don't need anymore." Lost Odyssey almost... almost did it, then a very "90s Saturday morning cartoon cut scene" in the middle turned me off so much that I just quit playing. (It was the villain intro... sad... sad... comical really, but I wasn't laughing).


Anyhow. Give me the great story and don't make it too serious. Bring back some menu driven combat!!! Give me a world map!!! Just update the graphics (that one I don't even care that much about, but if you're making a new game, you may as well. Don't remake 7. Just don't. In fact Squenix is SO bad about remakes, I'm sick of it. Which brings me to another point. They ported the classics (remakes of remakes) to mobile and charge stinking $20 for a digital download of game that people who are interested have already played a million times... then people bought it. Oh people... why??? It's a dangerous precedent. All the overhead didn't go into packaging and advertising like it would for a physical product... they didn't even have to come up with a new game. If they get away with it (and they already did) it won't be long before people are viewing digital downloads at the same value as physical products and other developers are saying "well Square did it" and mobile gaming will be just as expensive as console gaming... ug... rant over on that one... (and yes, I know this already happens a lot, but it doesn't make it right. And I don't have to like it).


Many games in the genre did do it wrong. I like a good grind but encounter rates every 3rd step don't work. I also don't want to have to grind for 5 hours before I can move on. Pacing... but all these things people don't seem to like were never a chore enough to bother me in the classic FF games. I may be in a minority of people who are unhappy with the franchise and the turns it has taken in it's illustrious lifetime, but I'm also in a majority age group that SPENDS THE MOST MONEY on games in America. Give me a classic style jrpg with the game play quality and story line quality of 4,6,7,10(ish), and some updated graphics(optional) and I'd gladly pay $100 for it... begrudgingly even if it were only available as a... digital download. (the shame)
 

LightningLord2

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I actually did play a bit of every Final Fantasy from 1 to 7 and also saw some gameplay of X-2, 12 and 13. I didn't like any of them. The pacing of those games is atrocious, forcing down endless waves of enemies with no significant variety (health/damage goes up, but enemies generally don't do anything interesting) and usually with such piddling stats that even your non-overlevelled mage can pummel them to death in 1-2 hits. It's even possible to get stuck without a clue what to do next in some games (I had no idea what to do in FF1 after beating the earth fiend). There are a few challenging and possibly even interesting bosses, but they're put at the tail end of the game you have spend 30+ hours getting through, which is like waiting in a line for a rollercoaster ride turned up to 11 (except having to do menial labor instead of just waiting). FF3 had the job system, a system I like, but I wasn't feeling up for the hours of slogging through the game to get to the actually (mildly) interesting classes. From 4 onwards, the ATB system punishes you for taking your time to think about what skills to use (thankfully, wait mode is a thing) and it hardly makes the game more interesting - it just lets you break the game twice as fast with Haste. 6 had great characters and seems to have a compelling plot and such, but the pacing is still bad and many of the character's special actions feel samey. 7's battle system - even with wait mode - is too fast for the animations to keep up. I occasionally even find myself inputting an action for a character whose previous action had not been executed yet. Furthermore, the characters don't play any different, which makes the materia system slightly more boring (as with, once again, no enemies being strong enough to warrant the use of it).


12 and 13 are more interesting because they put me off in new ways - 12 lets you program your allies such that there's no manual input required anymore for any given battle. Furthermore, I was appaled at the game design when I saw (aka read about) the Zodiac Spear and Yiazmat. 13, on the other hand, had the long corridor you can button mash your way through (maybe do a little bit of Paradigm Shift if it tickles your fancy). This linearity isn't exactly a problem, but it makes all the faults FF always had way more appearant.


I don't mind anyone who disagrees and enjoys Final Fantasy, but to me, the series never went downhill - it's always been this bad.
 
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13, on the other hand, had the long corridor you can button mash your way through (maybe do a little bit of Paradigm Shift if it tickles your fancy).


Those would be the two most blatant lies about FFXIII: "it's a long corridor!" and "win by button-mashing!" The moment anyone says that, you know how much their opinion is worth.


So isn't it funny how everyone who feels the need to constantly whine about the game says those things anyway?
 

EternalShadow

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I'm gonna jump in on this - look at the sales for XIII-2. Granted, there could be a confounding variable in here, but I think that number (against even IX which some people think sold poorly) is pretty telling.

I was appaled at the game design when I saw (aka read about) the Zodiac Spear and Yiazmat.
Why? The spear is optional (it's a bonus hidden goodie) and Yiazmat is a totally optional post-endgame boss.
 
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bgillisp

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Those would be the two most blatant lies about FFXIII: "it's a long corridor!" and "win by button-mashing!" The moment anyone says that, you know how much their opinion is worth.


So isn't it funny how everyone who feels the need to constantly whine about the game says those things anyway?
I think what they might  be referring to is the non boss battles. I recall winning many a non-boss battle by just watching, as I had the paradigm set-up already set that dominated that battle. Now boss battles, sure, if you just watched you died.


Also you might be confusing ffxiii-3, where you *could* win by button mashing if you were leveled up enough. Of course, what game out there can't you win by button mashing if you level up to max level, except maybe an old Gold box game where the level cap was really low.


However, this brings up to a point. If people CONSTANTLY say something, maybe you need to consider there might be a degree of truth to it? I sure hope that when you release your game if people constantly complain about x in your game you don't accuse them of lies. That will destroy your rep faster than you can blink. Instead, stop, and look at what they are saying and see if you can see why they might think that. Maybe the truth is halfway in the middle in the end? We sure wouldn't have progressed as a society if we just accused those who though the world was not flat of lies and stayed stuck in our view after all.
 

Niten Ichi Ryu

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We shouldn't even bother arguing, or even develop any argumentation, because we are all just clueless, lying morons whose opinion isn't worth nothing.


As @Alexander Amnell pointed, every FF discussion that remotely talk about FF13 always end up the same. People expressing their opinions, and one trolless baring her teeth and insulting everyone.


to be honest, I'm now torn into two position, a disinterest for any conversation where the FF13 fan troll shows up, and a perverse fascination for feeding the troll and see how low can it go.


Maybe will be wise this time, I think will be the one to block. (yes, I remember being blocked once after simply writing one negative comment at FF13).


I engage you all to do the same.
 
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If people CONSTANTLY say something, maybe you need to consider there might be a degree of truth to it? I sure hope that when you release your game if people constantly complain about x in your game you don't accuse them of lies. That will destroy your rep faster than you can blink. Instead, stop, and look at what they are saying and see if you can see why they might think that.


If I were to make a game that millions of people enjoyed, but there were people who were very vocal about not enjoying it for X, Y, and Z, that would lead me to the conclusion that some people like X, Y, and Z, and some people don't. If I enjoyed games with X, Y, and Z and enjoyed making games with X, Y, and Z, then I would continue making games with X, Y, and Z, because I would not feel the need to make games every single person enjoys. Regardless of whether or not some people felt I was obligated to stop making games with X, Y, and Z or that the games I make with X, Y, and Z were terrible and clearly no one liked them just because they don't like it, or they liked an earlier game of mine that didn't have X, Y, and/or Z.


Because some people are so driven to complain about a game that they start at the mere mention of it doesn't make the people who enjoy it cease to exist. Especially when a lot of people who do enjoy a game don't voice that because they're perfectly aware of what happens when you say you mention it.
 
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bgillisp

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If I were to make a game that millions of people enjoyed, but there were people who were very vocal about not enjoying it for X, Y, and Z, that would lead me to the conclusion that some people like X, Y, and Z, and some people don't. If I enjoyed games with X, Y, and Z and enjoyed making games with X, Y, and Z, then I would continue making games with X, Y, and Z, because I would not feel the need to make games every single person enjoys. Regardless of whether or not some people felt I was obligated to stop making games with X, Y, and Z or that the games I make with X, Y, and Z were terrible and clearly no one liked them just because they don't like it, or they liked an earlier game of mine that didn't have X, Y, and/or Z.


Because some people are so driven to complain about a game that they start at the mere mention of it doesn't make the people who enjoy it cease to exist. Especially when a lot of people who do enjoy a game don't voice that because they're perfectly aware of what happens when you say you mention it.
Now that approach would work. Just be careful though, sometimes the complainers are only saying what others think and don't speak. If your sales dropped between releases you'd have to stop and think about it at least.


Accidental double post. Why is the forum now showing 3 boxes when you do an edit? Grrr....reported to have it merged with the one below.

We shouldn't even bother arguing, or even develop any argumentation, because we are all just clueless, lying morons whose opinion isn't worth nothing.


As @Alexander Amnell pointed, every FF discussion that remotely talk about FF13 always end up the same. People expressing their opinions, and one trolless baring her teeth and insulting everyone.


to be honest, I'm now torn into two position, a disinterest for any conversation where the FF13 fan troll shows up, and a perverse fascination for feeding the troll and see how low can it go.


Maybe will be wise this time, I think will be the one to block. (yes, I remember being blocked once after simply writing one negative comment at FF13).


I engage you all to do the same.
Maybe we should feed him to the RPGCodex? And for those who don't know that site, they are VERY vocal and do not hesitate to express their opinion. Of course, they also think every game after Fallout (from 1997) is horrible so...
 
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LightningLord2

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About 12, the Zodiac Spear is probably excusable as a super-convoluted extra meant for the most dedicated players. However, since most of the challenge in Final Fantasy is the superbosses, having one as bad as Yiazmat is a turn-off.


About 13, I'm not going to counter-argument that the bosses require actual participation. It's just that the majority of the game is totally bland gameplay-wise. And button mashing through 90% of the game is not much better than mashing through 100% of it. I want to conclude it that I think the game is better than most people say, but still not good enough for me to be interested in it.


And I find it funny that people get hung up on me not liking 13 and not bat an eye about me finding every Final Fantasy from 1 to 7 boring (7 also has graphics that make it hard for me to either progress on the map or even target the right enemy in random battles)
 

Euphony

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Wow, I had no idea that people who like FFXIII are so persecuted. They must be the most oppressed people in the history of Earth. A Jew in 1940s Germany has nothing on them. They're so strong for persevering through these dark times. ( ಥ Ĺ̯ ಥ )
 
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Uzuki

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About 12, the Zodiac Spear is probably excusable as a super-convoluted extra meant for the most dedicated players. However, since most of the challenge in Final Fantasy is the superbosses, having one as bad as Yiazmat is a turn-off.


About 13, I'm not going to counter-argument that the bosses require actual participation. It's just that the majority of the game is totally bland gameplay-wise. And button mashing through 90% of the game is not much better than mashing through 100% of it. I want to conclude it that I think the game is better than most people say, but still not good enough for me to be interested in it.


And I find it funny that people get hung up on me not liking 13 and not bat an eye about me finding every Final Fantasy from 1 to 7 boring (7 also has graphics that make it hard for me to either progress on the map or even target the right enemy in random battles)


FFXII was built with the mindset of a single player MMO. I'm sure those of us who have spent hours grinding against bosses and mobs looking for components and weapons know what's that's like. The Zodiac Spear is a call to that. Yaizmat represents the super hard Raid bosses that are also a staple of the MMO games.
 

Azurecyan

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What most people don't find great about FFXII's story is how in-depth it is and the dialogue. It was deep, but not too deep nor shallow. You have to really pay attention to what is happening and listen carefully to what each character is saying and what they are doing; their purpose(except Vaan who's only reason was wanting to explore/become a sky pirate and Penelo just tagging along). It's not a straightforward story like previous entries were; it was more political which most people probably couldn't get into. The dialogue was rich, using old archaic words, verses, language which I think turned people off since most would say it's like reading Shakespeare.


I liked the MMO feel of FFXII which was a different, but somewhat a pleasing experience.
 

Sausage_Boi

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Those would be the two most blatant lies about FFXIII: "it's a long corridor!" and "win by button-mashing!"




Let's be honest, the first part of FFXIII (on Cocoon) WAS a big hallway. It was on the rails, go from point a to b. I was not looking forward to playing the whole game in that manner. However, getting to Pulse, I realized there was a bit more to the game. I still like to joke and call it Final Hallway, but that's a friendly joke. I don't offer it as a serious criticism of the game itself. I've been friends with FF since the first game. I still think 9 was the best, in terms of art and story. I don't like hyper-realistic final fantasy as much.


Button Mashing in FFXIII was the fastest way to a gameover for me, especially on bosses.


I REALLY look forward to Final Fantasy 15, though. Played a ton of the demo. Did you know there is a way to get past the barrier in the demo? Unless they patched it, you could get a car to push you through it and the you would be able to run all over the world. There are no quests or anything, but you can visit the locations . :))
 
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bgillisp

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@upside down name: You know, I seem to recall someone made that joke about FFX too. In fact, that was one complaint I heard about ffx shortly after it came out was it was too linear and you couldn't free roam until very late in the game.


As for ffxiii, I do wonder if due to how linear the game was until you left Pulse (which is what...Chapter 9? 10? 11?), if many of those people got tired of it and decided to pass on ffxiii-2 and ffxiii-3. It seems sales records do indicate that there is at least something that is causing players from ffxiii to not buy ffxiii-2 and ffxiii-3, and you would think they would be your best market!
 
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Chaos Avian

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You know, despite what people have said, I still quite enjoyed FFXIII for what it was. The linearity was MUCH more prominent than in FFX but I think the story justifies it somewhat. In FFX you're literally heading from point A to point B with various pit stops, in FFXIII you're fleeing as "enemies of the state". Personally I don't mind the linear nature (although I'd easily play X again over XIII lol), so it focused on characters much more. I will say that I enjoyed the characters in XIII (not so much the later instalments of the trilogy, the ending of XIII was fine it was...) even with some parts of the story being... questionable (dammit Snow, I tried to understand you xD).


I think this video sums up my thoughts on FFXIII 

 

SOC

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Just make good FF games again. Stop trying to do things different and making bad games because of the result of that. Just make good games again, even if they're not different or pushing any boundaries.
 

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Final Fantasy has been dead to me since after FFX. Even though I liked 8-10 it felt like they were just using cookie cutter formula and not really bringing anything new to the table (since 7) and after 10 it just started getting old since they hadn't done anything groundbreaking. I've played all the core games since the beginning (for me it was 1989 with FF1 on the NES).


FF1 had perhaps the best replay factor of any of the series since you could start the game with a custom party of 4 from a pool of 6 classes. They never did bring this game mechanic back and I think it was a mistake. FF6 sort of had this element by having such a large cast of characters so this made FF6 very replayable since you could focus on a different set of characters each replay. 


FF7 was the most popular of all. It had everything that a perfect game would have, driving storyline, cutting edge graphics (at the time), great gameplay, rich item/magic system. It started out linear (which is great, far too many games start open world and it's so easy to get lost in, overwhelmed and give up), but the world opens up slowly over time giving plenty of options for exploration. Perhaps the most important factor here was great storyline. I feel like this hasn't been replicated since.


FF8 was too much of a copy of FF7 but more complicated as someone else already mentioned and this isn't always good. I enjoyed it but I like complicated things (not always though). FF9 was good too but still too much like previous games. FFX was my last favorite (not least favorite), it brought a few new things that took getting use to. At first I hated blitzball but then it got addicting later on. Still not sure it was the best gimmick to add to this game.


I played FF12 way after the fact but couldn't really get into it (maybe because it was too old by the time I tried it). FF13 bored the crap out of me. I liked the characters but the game was very repetitive and brought nothing new to the table. The battle system was largely the same as always and I found it very grindy. I've replayed FF1, 6, and 7 more than a dozen times each but even now it's getting old. It's probably true that this series is past its prime. If they keep revisiting this title I doubt they will be able to come up with anything really new and original. But then again, maybe all they need is just a really really good storyline to bring it back to life. I think storyline > gameplay > graphics but these days it seems the focus is graphics > storyline > gameplay and that for me is not a winning formula.


That is pretty much how I feel on the series as a whole. I disliked FF13 so much I wish I could 'unplay' that piece of crap! On the other hand 13-2 and Lightning Returns were mildly enjoyable. I played 15's demo recently and I wasn't impressed at all either.


I wish SE would drop Final Fantasy for good and invest on original franchises (The World Ends WIth You <3) .
 

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My question is what happen to all the cool games we used to see on the enix side of things?


What happen to games like Actraiser?


What happen to games like Brain Lord?


What happen to games like Soul Blazer?


What happen to games like 7th Saga?


It just feels like all we get now days is FF and DQ.... mostly FF.. not so much DQ..


I miss when it was Enix and they would try new games with different franchises..


But i think the issue might be the cost of development.... it costs WAY more now days to make a game then it did back on the SNES, so they're less willing to take a risk and mess with a new IP.. or other types of gameplay.


Bravely Default surprised the HELL out of me!


I love the Bravely games!


BTW... i'm an ass hole about it, i nick named the B.D games .. "Final Fantasy done right"... kinda ass of me i know.. but i really have lost interest in the FF games.


I got that one FF game on my tablet though.. Final Fantasy Dimensions, i LOVE that game!


The industry in general feels like it's leaving gamers like me in the past though, in favor of realism and military style shooters.... i will never understand that mentality.


On my PS3 the other day, i bought Grandia 1 for the PS1 and i been playing the HELL out of that!


I love the story and the humor and the art style and voice work... ..


It does not feel like we get games like that anymore though....


I blame the influx of "dude brah gamers" that exist now days... they're the majority and everyone keeps trying to cater to that demographic...


Just look at games like Operation Raccoon city.... Capcom took a horror game series and tried to make something to appeal to the dude brah/COD camp.


I feel like the same thing keeps happening here with SE... they're trying to appeal to that crowd and make tons of money of them, and it's not exactly working as they want.


... anyhow.. i've ranted enough...
 
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