Final Fantasy is feared to be a dying franchise that has long passed it's peak to Square Enix...

Ashouse

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Oh no, I read the whole thing, that was just all I got out of it. (Who's the troll neeeoow!) lol jk
 

Ejronin

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To be fair, I am verbose... So maybe there was some tl;dr ?
 

Ashouse

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Each entry is both same and different; a shell game but in a good way. There's a yet socially unrealized risk in XV, but this time next year we'll know for sure whether the fans are polarized or unified under the new flag. Either way, there's a storm that we have to ride out 
Except that sadly I will probably never know because I am too poor to buy a new console... You guys will have to fill me in. I really hope it is at least "good." I truly, truly do. As far as letting it die goes, yeah, I could probably deal with that. I think Kemco is a call to arms though. They seriously need some competitive influence. I hope we (this community) can be that. I know that however great or small most games just dont get finished. I also know there are some truly great minds round' here. I hope you remember me and give me a copy of your game, or let me beta. Its official, I am available for all your betas. Dont worry, I wont slam you. It cant be as bad as XIII.


Nevermind on filling me in. I just saw a demo and I hate it. Watched about ten min of it. Wish I could get those ten back. Doesn't look like I will be missing much. Oh, Squenix... Your so freaking stupid. Does a literal monkey run that company?
 
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Gabrelik

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Wanting a series to stay around because you can't identify that the 12 other titles in the series are exactly the same story in a rearranged fashion is intellectually bankrupt


First thing, I love the Kefka avatar. :D


This statement, however, seems to downplay the amazing creativity that was so fundamentally integral to the success of the early to mid-stride franchise that, quite frankly, I daresay FF may not have endured without it. Are there threads of commonality weaved throughout each plot? Sure, but I imagine this was an intentional device meant to carry the nostalgic fans through to the next installment. Like an inside joke, or homages placed purely for the enjoyment of the dedicated, I was always happy to be indulged. As an example, I personally waited and searched for Cid in dayum near every FF that came out. It was a sort of mini-game for me, actually. :)  


The stories, however, (and I include XIII here on premise) were each extremely unique where it counted, insofar as they captured my attention and curiosity.  The worlds were painted in my mind through excellent graphics (for the release time of each title, respectively), but more importantly, through a well written plot and dialogue that was easy to lose myself in. Aside from gaming, I am an avid reader, and am very quickly put off by a story that cannot entice my imagination.  The early games gave us the basic formula, while those that came after simply expounded on that and gave it flesh. Perhaps then, I am merely arguing semantics in regard to formula vs story. Either way, I cannot simply denigrate a series so enduring and so loved by many as "the same story in a rearranged fashion", without first conceding that "rearranged fashion" is a term to be very loosely applied.


I will concede with those who have already posted in this thread that the series has become entirely too focused on complication and over-emphasized mechanics, likely because the developers fail to realize that this is not what made their previous titles great, nor is it what the fans crave (Not that we really know ourselves, much of the time).  Personally, I found VIII entirely too linear and simplistic. To be fair, however, I completely lost interest early on and never finished it. Nor have I played any of the sequels that followed. Now, while some may argue that I didn't give it a proper chance, I went into that game with the same exuberance and twitter-painted nature I've always had for the series, and honestly, it was the first time I truly accepted that FF was on a steady decline as a series.  I had never felt disappointed in FF, truly disappointed, until that title.


I have not watched any demos for the newest installment, nor do I care to. I will likely pick it up when the price comes down to an acceptable level of risk (pretty low) and give it a try. Sadly, like many have already stated, it would take quite a bit to renew my interest. Risking the wrath of the devoted, I would have to say that VIII was where I lost it to begin with. 


As a side note, I don't have a favorite, but adore a plethora of elements in each installment up until VIII. (Not including the online mishap, of course).  Each game had characteristics I adored, and some I didn't much care for, but then, that is the nature of these things. Certainly not worth over analyzing.

let's face it - few people are lore hunters without some kind of stupid trophy that encourages it. 


Yes! So much this. Our current project is going to saturate people in more lore than they could ever desire, but in a way that makes it purely optional. As a player, I always enjoyed "clicking" on everything to see what happened, and was inevitably disappointed by games that didn't hide things in pots and bookshelves. To that point, just about every bookshelf or stray note/tome in our coming game is interactive, and gives the player the option of exploring the deep lore we are trying to weave into our story.


I wish more games would get back to that simple concept that stories are more engaging with deeper lore, and the love/hate factor of characters is greatly expounded by a solid buy-in to their development.
 
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Ashouse

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First thing, I love the Kefka avatar. :D


This statement, however, seems to downplay the amazing creativity that was so fundamentally integral to the success of the early to mid-stride franchise that, quite frankly, I daresay FF may not have endured without it. Are there threads of commonality weaved throughout each plot? Sure, but I imagine this was an intentional device meant to carry the nostalgic fans through to the next installment. Like an inside joke, or homages placed purely for the enjoyment of the dedicated, I was always happy to be indulged. As an example, I personally waited and searched for Cid in dayum near every FF that came out. It was a sort of mini-game for me, actually. :)  


The stories, however, (and I include XIII here on premise) were each extremely unique where it counted, insofar as they captured my attention and curiosity.  The worlds were painted in my mind through excellent graphics (for the release time of each title, respectively), but more importantly, through a well written plot and dialogue that was easy to lose myself in. Aside from gaming, I am an avid reader, and am very quickly put off by a story that cannot entice my imagination.  The early games gave us the basic formula, while those that came after simply expounded on that and gave it flesh. Perhaps then, I am merely arguing semantics in regard to formula vs story. Either way, I cannot simply denigrate a series so enduring and so loved by many as "the same story in a rearranged fashion", without first conceding that "rearranged fashion" is a term to be very loosely applied.


I will concede with those who have already posted in this thread that the series has become entirely too focused on complication and over-emphasized mechanics, likely because the developers fail to realize that this is not what made their previous titles great, nor is it what the fans crave (Not that we really know ourselves, much of the time).  Personally, I found VIII entirely too linear and simplistic. To be fair, however, I completely lost interest early on and never finished it. Nor have I played any of the sequels that followed. Now, while some may argue that I didn't give it a proper chance, I went into that game with the same exuberance and twitter-painted nature I've always had for the series, and honestly, it was the first time I truly accepted that FF was on a steady decline as a series.  I had never felt disappointed in FF, truly disappointed, until that title.


I have not watched any demos for the newest installment, nor do I care to. I will likely pick it up when the price comes down to an acceptable level of risk (pretty low) and give it a try. Sadly, like many have already stated, it would take quite a bit to renew my interest. Risking the wrath of the devoted, I would have to say that VIII was where I lost it to begin with. 


As a side note, I don't have a favorite, but adore a plethora of elements in each installment up until VIII. (Not including the online mishap, of course).  Each game had characteristics I adored, and some I didn't much care for, but then, that is the nature of these things. Certainly not worth over analyzing.


Yes! So much this. Our current project is going to saturate people in more lore than they could ever desire, but in a way that makes it purely optional. As a player, I always enjoyed "clicking" on everything to see what happened, and was inevitably disappointed by games that didn't hide things in pots and bookshelves. To that point, just about every bookshelf or stray note/tome in our coming game is interactive, and gives the player the option of exploring the deep lore we are trying to weave into our story.


I wish more games would get back to that simple concept that stories are more engaging with deeper lore, and the love/hate factor of characters is greatly expounded by a solid buy-in to their development.


Crap, I just double posted. Off to report my infraction and hope for the best! :D
Dude, you missed IX? NOOOOOO! I think you would have loved it. To be completely honest, it was a better game than 10. I too really hated VIII. It was suckage right out the gate. I was ready to quit as soon as I figured out the magic system (lame). V, II(j), III(j) and sort of X all had features I really didn't like, namely that no single character had things that ONLY that character could do. People are all "custom EVERYTHING! ME WANTS IT!" and your characters are now robbed of their individuality. The only one that characters shared well in was VI called 3. The everyone can do magic thing was okay by me, because it was offset by everyone has their own special that only they and the mimic guy can do. Lol. Plus each one had a back story that the game told well, leaving just enough intrigue to keep each one interesting. 


And Cid, that's right. Where/who is he going to be this time.


In any case 9 was a far better game than you think, even if ZIDANE is the stupidest(er) name in video game history. Pot smokin dev 1: "dude, like what should we call the monkey guy?" Pot smoken dev 2: "Zidane in the hizzie!" both: hahahaha, yeah, that's great!


And that he has a tail is kind of dumb too.
 

Ejronin

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Dude, you missed IX? NOOOOOO! I think you would have loved it. To be completely honest, it was a better game than 10. I too really hated VIII. It was suckage right out the gate. I was ready to quit as soon as I figured out the magic system (lame). V, II(j), III(j) and sort of X all had features I really didn't like, namely that no single character had things that ONLY that character could do. People are all "custom EVERYTHING! ME WANTS IT!" and your characters are now robbed of their individuality. The only one that characters shared well in was VI called 3. The everyone can do magic thing was okay by me, because it was offset by everyone has their own special that only they and the mimic guy can do. Lol. Plus each one had a back story that the game told well, leaving just enough intrigue to keep each one interesting. 


And Cid, that's right. Where/who is he going to be this time.


In any case 9 was a far better game than you think, even if ZIDANE is the stupidest(er) name in video game history. Pot smokin dev 1: "dude, like what should we call the monkey guy?" Pot smoken dev 2: "Zidane in the hizzie!" both: hahahaha, yeah, that's great!


And that he has a tail is kind of dumb too.
Im just saying that every final fantasy is the same core. Clearly the mixed and split fanbase evidences that the detailed nuances, from how the story is told to the mechanics, are defining of each unto each.


However, find me one that is missing an altruistic suicide, a great evil embedded within a popular social construct, and manifest destiny... It's formulaic. Fum and engaging to see how it plays out this time... like True Detective...
 

Gabrelik

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@Ashouse, it just occurred to me that I mistyped. Definitely meant to say that XIII was where I lost interest...


I actually really liked IX, X, and XII. Hell, I didn't even really mind X-2, though I'll admit that one was stretching my patience. Definitely seemed geared toward bringing more female players to the franchise. These definitely speak to my point though. Each game had its own unique characteristic that made it memorable for me. The Guild quests in XII were among my favorite of these, and I lived for Blitzball. With IX it was throwback nature of the game. (Vivi is still a badass in my book).


I agree with you about VI (I also knew it as III), which remains my favorite of the series thus far. There was just something about Terra in her Esper form, with my favorite moment being that scream when the world first ended, and she was out of control? Epic.  There was just so much more focus on excellent story and gameplay back then. Honestly, those are the games I model my project after. 
 

Ashouse

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@Ashouse, it just occurred to me that I mistyped. Definitely meant to say that XIII was where I lost interest...


I actually really liked IX, X, and XII. Hell, I didn't even really mind X-2, though I'll admit that one was stretching my patience. Definitely seemed geared toward bringing more female players to the franchise. These definitely speak to my point though. Each game had its own unique characteristic that made it memorable for me. The Guild quests in XII were among my favorite of these, and I lived for Blitzball. With IX it was throwback nature of the game. (Vivi is still a badass in my book).


I agree with you about VI (I also knew it as III), which remains my favorite of the series thus far. There was just something about Terra in her Esper form, with my favorite moment being that scream when the world first ended, and she was out of control? Epic.  There was just so much more focus on excellent story and gameplay back then. Honestly, those are the games I model my project after. 
Well at least they never tried to cash in on teenage hormones to the point of having a Lesbian protagonist as a central character like Taito's Eternal Felina (eng translation)... Which my cat played in an alternate universe and then told me about. One of squares best games was Bahamut Lagoon. My cat played a real bad translation of that (had some Kanji and French in the script as well as Engrish). I can see why that game never made the states. Probably NO kid in the 90s would have the attention span to micro manage all those characters. Well maybe I would have but... Whatever. My cat did. The story was forgetable, but come on man! A Shining Force/Final Fantasy combo? No way! It was nerd paradise! An official English release of that game would bring big $$$s these days, but they wont do it.


I too am going that route with my project (like the good ole FF games) SHAMELESSLY! I feel like the only reason Kemco games have such high ratings is lack of any true compition in the market. Talk about cookie cutter. I have played about three of their games and couldnt beat a single one, not because of difficulty. But the Engrish... And boredom. Way too many recolors (and Im lenient about stuff like that). Reused animations between character skills and between games. "We have our graphics catalogue and we're sticking to it."


I dont know, as far as FF goes... I dont really care what they do anymore. In fact, if they made something I couldn't live without I might even be outraged because I would have to scrounge around and pawn my life to get a new system to play it. It aint happenin' with XV, so I'm safe for now at least.


Like I said, maybe we can beta for each other. Sounds like we're on the same page for what we want out of the genre... Or close enough, anyhow.


Oh, p.s. The Kefka laugh... And mister Thou. Love it!
 
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Gabrelik

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@Ashouse, definitely! I actually hope to have a demo out in the next few weeks.
 

Ashouse

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@Ashouse, definitely! I actually hope to have a demo out in the next few weeks.
Im not at that point yet. I have too many graphical changes that are taking 80 hour chunks out of my life, but I think I might demo when the first dungeon is done. Then again I have some graphic "surprises" I have considered keeping under wraps until I'm closer to release. As it stands I have 100s of hpurs of work just to get where I want to go graphicaly. Plus some pretty high learning curve plugins I am planning on using (to me anyhow). In any case don't forget to link me when the demo is out!
 

Ejronin

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Im not at that point yet. I have too many graphical changes that are taking 80 hour chunks out of my life, but I think I might demo when the first dungeon is done. Then again I have some graphic "surprises" I have considered keeping under wraps until I'm closer to release. As it stands I have 100s of hpurs of work just to get where I want to go graphicaly. Plus some pretty high learning curve plugins I am planning on using (to me anyhow). In any case don't forget to link me when the demo is out!
And here I am like, "yep. Had an idea that I just scrapped and replaced it with a big mind eff concept.... "


Just gotta rewite oh, the whole dayum script. But... Yeah, that's where I am... 
 

Ashouse

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I know the pain. 3rd world map, 3rd starting city already. All parallax. My wife said if I keep scrapping things I will never get done. BUT I need this to fit my vision or I will feel like I failed. :D
 

Ejronin

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I know the pain. 3rd world map, 3rd starting city already. All parallax. My wife said if I keep scrapping things I will never get done. BUT I need this to fit my vision or I will feel like I failed. :D
My wife said the same thing she said when I did mini figure painting:


"You have the strangest hobbies"


Yeah, because *I* collect the porcelain dolls and stamps...


At least anime, RPGs, and tabletop wargames have a community that respects itself. Doll collecting? You get what, the random cat lady and people who make doilies...maybe you'll get some 30yo shut-in trying to bring a Barbie and beanoe babies to the table... Please.
 

Ashouse

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My wife said the same thing she said when I did mini figure painting:


"You have the strangest hobbies"


Yeah, because *I* collect the porcelain dolls and stamps...


At least anime, RPGs, and tabletop wargames have a community that respects itself. Doll collecting? You get what, the random cat lady and people who make doilies...maybe you'll get some 30yo shut-in trying to bring a Barbie and beanoe babies to the table... Please.
Mine called the minis baby dolls to agetate me... Oh, the disrespect. You aint never seen a Fire giant like my fire giant though! (He got +12 to hit and damage)
 

Ejronin

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Mine called the minis baby dolls to agetate me... Oh, the disrespect. You aint never seen a Fire giant like my fire giant though! (He got +12 to hit and damage)
Nice. I have Robotech Rpg tactics minis
 

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Any of you read the recent articles about FF disease? It's where no one can see any vision for FF but their own. I've seen it pop up on several news sites recently, as (supposedly) the director had to discuss this issue with the team, due to many of them being unable to see any vision for the game but their own. Also, he said fans have this, big time.


I wonder if some of that affected how people perceive FFXIII? Or even FFX (which was the popular one to bash when I was in school)? Or any after FF7? Thoughts?
 

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In any case 9 was a far better game than you think, even if ZIDANE is the stupidest(er) name in video game history. Pot smokin dev 1: "dude, like what should we call the monkey guy?" Pot smoken dev 2: "Zidane in the hizzie!" both: hahahaha, yeah, that's great!
The funny thing is, if you search for Zidane, the last thing you will find is the FF character.


Other that that, i don't like the more sci-fi feeling from 7 and 8, never played the newer ones.
 

Ashouse

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The funny thing is, if you search for Zidane, the last thing you will find is the FF character.


Other that that, i don't like the more sci-fi feeling from 7 and 8, never played the newer ones.
Well, Zidane is a fine name for a human being, it just didn't fit the character to me. Plus you could always change it. I always called Vivi "Black M". More because of 8 bit theater than Ff1. (Big lol) 


Plus the game was pretty under rated I think. Not nearly as popular as it should have been. Timing and marketing were off, and I think many core fans were put off by 8.
 
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Niten Ichi Ryu

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Well thing is even though I kinda like the FF9 main, except the part where we discover he is

a Goku wannabe, particularly with the tail stuff

he never has been one of history greatest football player, and king of the headbutt, and trainer of one of the biggest club worldwide, so it's kind of expected he is the last thing you find when you google Zidane. 


And If I'm not wrong his name as per the Japanese Character should be pronounced, and so have been written Djidane.
 
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Clangeddin

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It's time for Final Fantasy to start indulging into Evil Parties and Evil point of view.
Wanna challenge the status quo? Now there's your chance. Go ahead and make a Final Fantasy (not a spinoff, but one chapter of the series) with Garland as main character, as a sort of tribute for reinventing the series. Make it about a misanthropic ruthless character who has no morals and will stop at nothing to gain immortality (that was sort of Garland's goal in FF1). And make the classic band of heroes the antagonist of the game.


If you keep on pulling out the same old teenager gang of heroes, you're not challenging any status quo. You're sitting on the same old trope that has been plaguing JRPGS (both commercial and amateurial) since FF8.


Hence why I can't take this interview any seriously and consider it nothing more than a typical advertising attempt by a director/producer/whatever.
 
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