Final Fantasy Series

[Pryde]

I always kinda liked IX. But the Crystal World and final battle felt more like an afterthought; like an optional boss who decided to seize power at the last instant.

 

[EvilEagles]

To put it simple, FFIV is the lair of RPG cliches. But above all, it is still a good game, I wouldn't say the best, but it is good. And it was one of the games that made me addicted to RPGs.

And yes I love FFIX too, just for the cliched story with crystals, castles, chibi character design, simple gameplay and stuff.

 

[Dark Phoenix]

I did play it a bit, but only for like... I dunno, a couple hours. Something about it that just didn't grab me at all; I was positively bored out of my skull. :lol: I put it down and never came back to it. Sounds like it's quite a slog.

Another quick quoting from Hardcore Gaming 101 (fact is, it's VERY accurate):

(By the way, I'm sticking this in spoiler tags, even though there shouldn't be anything spoiler-y about it, so that it doesn't take up a HUGE amount of room unless you want it to. So don't worry too much about spoilers.)

Spoiler

Final Fantasy II starts off with Frioniel and friends locked in a hopeless struggle against an imperial death squad and getting the earthly piss beaten out of them. This is fitting, inasmuch as it sets the mood for the rest of the game to come. Final Fantasy II will do everything in its power to beat you down. And when I write "you," I am not referring to Frioniel's party. I am referring to you, the player. Final Fantasy II is a pair of simultaneous battles on two separate planes. The first is the fictional struggle of Frioniel and the rebel forces against the might of the Paramekian Empire. The second is the very real battle between you, the player, and Final Fantasy II, in which the game attempts to foil your efforts and demoralize you from ever playing again. As you try to beat Final Fantasy II, Final Fantasy II tries to beat you.Most reviews and guides only cover the first aspect of this struggle. I, however, will be talking about the latter. To this end, I have pinpointed the five primary devices Final Fantasy II employs in its psychological battle against the player's will.

1.) Ludicrous Stat/Ability Progression System

This is the main culprit and Final Fantasy II's greatest weapon. Somebody in SquareSoft thought it might be a cool idea to discard experience points and leveling up in favor of an alternative system. This wasn't such a bad idea in spirit, and was quite progressive for an eight-bit RPG in 1988. However, the system they came up with is absolutely absurd and renders Final Fantasy II unplayable to the point where I honestly have a hard time believing it wasn't intentional.

Here's how it works: party members' statistics increase with use. If they use a lot of physical attacks in battle, their Attack and Weapon Skill increase. If they use a lot of magic, their Intelligence or Soul (depending on whether Black or White magic is used) increase. Losing a lot of HP means an increase in HP and Vitality increase, and consuming large amounts of magic points might lead to an increase in MP. (I say "might" because there's never any real guarantee that anyone will receive a stat increase after a battle.)

What this means is that the most efficient way of building up your party's HP, Attack, Vitality, and Weapon Skill levels is to seek out random battles and, instead of fighting the enemies, having your party members whale on themselves and each other with their equipped weapons while the monsters gaze on in horrified stupefaction.

It gets worse. Final Fantasy II's Magic and Weapon Skill system works on the same basic principle. Regularly using a certain type of weapon increases a character's proficiency with that weapon, allowing them to score more hits and inflict greater damage. Similarly, casting the same spell enough times levels it up, making more effective. (A modified version of this system was later included in Secret of Mana.) The problem lies in the frequency with which you must use a weapon or spell to see a Skill Level increase. It isn't much of an issue with melee attacks, but using magic with any degree of effectiveness becomes a grueling ordeal. When you buy that "Fire" spellbook and give it one of your party members, it starts off at level 1. In order to level it up to 2, you must cast Fire in battle anywhere from 50-100 times. And that's another 50-100 uses to get it up to level 3 afterwards. And if you have any interest in using Ice or Bolt magic, you'd better get to leveling those up too. The Heal and Blink spells are useful as well: START LEVELING. Holy? Flare? Ultima? They all start off at level 1 as well, and you gotta get them up to at least level 5 before they become even remotely useful at the stage of the game in which you acquire them. That's 250-500 uses. Each.

But never fear! There is a shortcut to boosting your Magic ability. Due to a bug in the game, selecting a spell and choosing a target registers as a successful use of said spell. This allows you to increase spell levels by having a character pick a spell and choose a target, then pressing "B" to cancel it. Repeat 50-100 times for an increase in that spell's level. It's a lot like doing reps at the gym: tedious, repetitive, and time-consuming, but in this case, the results are a lot less...well, tangible. If your brain releases any endorphin during this process, I'd contact a neurologist immediately.

Lastly, Agility and Evade are two very important stats because they're what determine whether you are able to run away from battle. They are increased when a character successfully dodges a physical attack, which itself is a roll of the dice based on a few percentages. During this playthough, my party members had exceptionally bad luck dodging attacks because I didn't give them shields (because shields decrease the potency of attacks, both physical and magical). As a result, their Agility and Evade stats rarely increased -- and that meant I was never able to run from any battles, ever. Every time -- I cannot possibly stress the word EVERY enough -- a random battle came up, I had to deal with it. If the battle between myself and Final Fantasy II were a boxing match, this would be the equivalent of getting kicked repeatedly in the balls with a steel-toed boot.

2.) Doors to Nothing

The dungeons in the first Final Fantasy have doors. Behind those doors are rooms. Often, these rooms contain stuff. It is usually a good idea to check behind doors in Final Fantasy.

Final Fantasy II's dungeons have doors. Lots of doors. More doors than Final Fantasy's dungeons. But behind these doors, about 90% of the time, is nothing. Totally empty rooms. Neat, huh? It gets better: when enter the empty room and the screen changes, your character is positioned several paces inside the room instead of in the doorway. In a game where every step is a potential enemy encounter, and fleeing from battle can be anywhere from difficult to downright impossible (side note: you cannot retreat from undead foes, which dungeons are full of), this can be much more of a pain than it sounds. The obvious solution is to just never go through any doors, but Final Fantasy II throws curveballs by sometimes hiding an extremely crucial and rare piece of equipment behind a single nondescript door among fifteen others, or placing the staircase to the next floor behind a door. The only thing that could possibly make dungeon exploration in Final Fantasy II more painful would be if stepping into an empty room caused the voice of George W. Bush to cackle over the speakers: "HEH HEH! NO WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION IN HERE!"

3.) Useless Allies

So you have three primary party members: Frioniel, Maria, and Guy. They remain with you for the entire game and are worth building up as much as possible. The fourth party member slot is filled and vacated as the progression of the plot demands. The first ally you get is Minh, who knows almost every White Magic spell in the game and at fairly high levels to boot. Minh is a helpful addition, and does a good job helping your inexperienced party members stay afloat during the first stages of the game.

Then you get Josef. Josef doesn't know any magic, but has a decent amount of HP and attack power, so he's pretty good to have around.

And then you get Gordon. Gordon is useless. His stats are pitiful, he's unskilled with weapons, and he knows no spells. Making him useful even to the smallest degree requires much time and effort. When Gordon he leaves your party, he's replaced by Layla, who has low HP, a Level 2 skill level with few different weapons, and only knows one spell. Gotta power her up, too. Several hours later, you get Richard, who has lousy HP, so-so attack power, and no spells. Get the gist yet?

Sure, Final Fantasy II is the first game in the series featuring characters with backgrounds and personalities, but what difference does it make if most of them can't pull their weight in battle? Jerks.

4.) Limited Inventory Space

This is nothing new. The original Final Fantasy's inventory was severely limited. But what Final Fantasy II likes to thrust a ton of story-related "key" items at you that have no practical purpose and are impossible to throw away or hand off. By the time you're at the final dungeon, half of your inventory -- space you could be using to store Elixirs, Ethers, Phoenix Downs, and other stuff you might actually use -- consists of worthless garbage the game won't let you throw away. It even drops the Hiryuu (a flying, presumably fire-breathing dragon) into your party's backpack as a totally useless weight, apparently only to taunt you.

5.) Wild Goose Chases

Okay. Here's how an early chunk of Final Fantasy II plays out:

STEP ONE: Talk to Hilda in Altea. "WE NEED MYTHRIL! GO TO THE SEMITE CAVE NEAR SALAMANDO AND GET SOME!"

STEP TWO: Leave Altea. Take the canoe across the lake. Enter Palm. Pay the man in Palm to take you to Poft on his ship. Pay Cid in Poft to take you to Salamando in his airship.

STEP THREE: Enter Salamando. Talk to Josef. Exit Salamando. Walk to the Semite Cave. Enter Semite Cave, fight your way to the bottom, acquire the Mythril.

STEP FOUR: Exit the Semite Cave. Walk to Salamando. Talk to Josef. Exit Salamando. Walk to Poft. Pay the man in Poft to talk you to Palm on his ship. Exit Palm. Take the canoe across the lake. Enter Altea. Talk to Hilda.

STEP FIVE: Hilda: "NOW GO TO BOFSK AND STOP THE EMPIRE'S WARSHIP!"

STEP SIX: Exit Altea. Take the canoe across the lake. Enter Palm. Pay the man in Palm to take you to Poft on his ship. Pay Cid in Poft to take you to Bofsk in his airship.

STEP SEVEN: Enter Bofsk. Fight many battles.

STEP EIGHT: Exit Bofsk. Walk to Poft. Pay the man in Poft to take you to Palm on his ship. Exit Palm. Take the canoe across the lake. Enter Altea. Talk to Hilda.

STEP NINE: Hilda: "TALK TO CID! MAYBE HE KNOWS HOW TO STOP THE WARSHIP!"

STEP TEN: Exit Altea. Take the canoe across the lake. Enter Palm. Pay the man in Palm to take you to Poft on his ship. Talk to Cid in Poft.

STEP NINE: Pay the man in Poft to take you to Palm on his ship. Exit Palm. Take the canoe across the lake. Enter Altea. Tell Hilda what Cid told you.

STEP TEN: Hilda: "BUT IN ORDER TO ENTER KASHUON CASTLE AND ACQUIRE THE SUN FLAME, YOU'LL NEED THE GODDESS BELL! GO TALK TO JOSEF IN SALAMANDO!"

STEP ELEVEN: Exit Altea. Take the canoe across the lake. Enter Palm. Pay the man in Palm to take you to Poft on his ship. Pay Cid in Poft to take you to Salamando in his airship. Enter Salamando. Talk to Josef.

STEP TWELVE: Josef: "YOU'LL NEED AN ICE SLED TO REACH THE DUNGEON WHERE THE GODDESS BELL IS KEPT! BUT AS LUCK WOULD HAVE IT, I'VE HIDDEN AN ICE SLED IN A SECRET CAVERN IN THE SEMITE CAVE!"

STEP THIRTEEN: If your will somehow remains unbroken at this point and the game is still turned on, Final Fantasy II will begin administering electrical shocks through the controller.

 

[Kread-EX]

My experience with FFII:

- Unlocked the world map.

- Went into a town where enemies dish out 800 damage when my max HP is around 100.

- Never played again.

Total play time: 1 hour at most.

EDIT: To the game's defense, it was a rom in Japanese so I may have a part of responsibility. And it was also ten years ago.

 

[Dark Phoenix]

I managed to get to Pandamonium, but I never had the patience to power up my magic and attack abilities enough to get all the way through. It is an utterly frustrating experience, made even worse by the insane encounter rate which doubles in dungeons and quadruples in the doors to nowhere mentioned in the article I quoted. I wanted to like this game, for historical sake; a lot of Final Fantasy staples appeared first in this game (Cid, Chocobos, Ultima, etc.), and a lot of the characters were pretty cool (except Gordon, who unfortunately also became a Final Fantasy staple; the weak prince). I finally needed to pull out a map to get thorugh the later dungeons, because not doing so guarantees you'll be wasting huge amounts of time between the encounter rate and the doors to nowhere. On top of that, they fixed the magic/attack bug mentioned in the article in the remakes; as a result, I never saw a spell over level 5, in a game where spells should go to 16, and because that number alone determines the effectiveness of the spell, that generally means that damaging enemies was just out. FFII is the only time I ever saw Fire do more damage than Flare, Holy and Ultima. Thanks, Square!

 

[C Frost]

Holy spork splitter! Well, from reading that (hilarious) clip from the article, I think I should be glad I never tried to get very far in II. :lol: I remember hearing about the crazy leveling system, but most of that other stuff, I wasn't aware of. Yeesh. Some of it can be attributed to "a failed experiment" (i.e. they were trying something different, but it just didn't work out), but stuff like having a dozen identical doors in a dungeon, with most of them leading to nothing but ONE leading to something really amazing in a game with a high random encounter rate... yeah, that's just not cool at all.

I hated how Final Fantasy IV made Zemus come out of nowhere and show up as the main villain after you actually saw Golbez doing all sorts of bad things. Golbez killed the King of Baron, killed Tellah and his daughter, stole all of those crystals right in front of you, and put a lot of strife between Cecil and Kain, and he kinda reminded me of Darth Vader. Then in the endgame, you discover that the real bad guy was really Zemus, who was a blue guy who sat there inside the moon, being evil or something. And the he was the sole reason Golbez was acting evil instead of a slightly more complicated reason. I bet the writers were trying to make Zemus a sort of Palpatine to Golbez's Darth Vader, but they really didn't put any thought into him.

While I can see the Vader parallel (and as Phoenix points out, it may not be unintentional), I don't agree that Zemus came completely out of nowhere. That something was "up" with Golbez, that he wasn't just "THE VILLAIN", full stop, had already been foreshadowed in the Tower of Zot, when he has Cecil at his mercy, and then wigs out and runs off. Cecil wonders why he didn't finish him off, but at the time, there is no explanation. Then, it's revealed that Kain was indeed under some form of mind control (which is something that the player has surely suspected before then, but it's confirmed for certain at that point). That Golbez himself was ALSO under a similar kind of control was, I thought, a clever twist later on. Further, the moon's involvement in the story as Golbez's goal, and its connection to the crystals, is first mentioned in the very next scene after you leave the tower. And, the light at Mt. Ordeals calls Cecil "son", and when Cecil wonders why, that too is left unanswered until you find out who Golbez is, and who Cecil's father is. So I don't consider Zemus to be "out of left field", because at the moment when you first hear his name, the Lunarian aspects of the story have already been foreshadowed quite a bit, and reaching the moon, talking to FuSoYa and finding all this out, and then confronting Golbez and waking him up (and finding out who HE really is) is just tying up all those questions they'd opened throughout the game. And while I agree that it might have been nice to see a little bit more actual development for Golbez after he is freed from the mind control (which, to be fair, would have required lengthening the game), I don't think it's fair to say they didn't put much thought into him, since they did have dialog directly pointing out that Zemus used him, not Cecil, due to the fact that he was the more predisposed to evil even before Zemus came along, AND (more importantly) that they wrap up his story with the realization that he cannot return to Earth after all he's done.

IV was fun but as with TouchFuzzy really did not graps me at all.

Im the opposite of you Saito with IX being my favourite (Along perhaps with 6).

To each their own, heh. I think that "which FF is the best/worst" is one of those questions about which there will never be anything approaching a consensus. Even though I just typed up that big response to Phlegethonyarre; obviously I disagree about Zemus, and I felt like laying out my reasoning, but that doesn't mean I expect him to just do a 180 and be like "You're right, it was great!" :lol: Story quality is pretty subjective. If he didn't like that part of IV and felt it came out of nowhere, ah well. Like I said, to each their own.

 

[SOC]

FF1: All versions of this game are great and amazing, but only the original FF1 NES has any kind of challenge. All remakes of this game are way too easy, but definitely worth playing at least one version of it if you haven't yet.

FF2: I didn't really like any versions of this game, the new EXP. system really ruined it and it very un0enjoyable to me. Great storyline, but terrible game play. My least favorite FF.

FF3: I've only played the DS remake, and it was alright. Not the best game, but not the worst. It's okay in difficulty, not too hard but not too easy. A little frustrating at times, but all in all a pretty okay game.

FF4: Fantastic game. I've played all versions except the PSP, and I like the DS remake the most. It felt so nice to have different strategies for many bosses. It was a lot of fun.

FF5: Probably my second least favorite FF. I didn't really enjoy anything about this game. I found it frustrating and boring and annoying, it was a chore to play, not fun in any way really. :/

FF6: Fourth best game ever made. No one can ever say enough good things about this game.

FF7: Third best game ever made. No one can ever play this game enough.

FF8: Great storyline, terrible game play, but the storyline more than makes up for the fact you'll spend hours and hours drawing and stocking magic that you'll only equip, never cast. The characters are full of life and you grow pretty attached to them.

FF9: Fifth best game ever made. A lot of people don't like it, but I think it's absolutely amazing. It went back to classic roots and did it almost perfectly.

FF10: Great game. A lot of people either love or hate this game, but I'm an oldschool hardcore FF fan and I love this game. I feel like it was the last proper FF made.

FF11: Best MMORPG ever, but too party-intensive to be a good solid FF despite having such a great storyline.

FF12: Meh. I didn't like it. Very forgettable, should be called "Vaan's Magical Adventure" instead of a numbered FF. Also, you forget about Vaan halfway through the game, so maybe that title still isn't enough.

FF13: Not even going to bother playing this movie.

FF14: Never had the chance to play it. So many terrible opinions about it, though. I haven't formed one exactly for my self other than I hate the

they placed on it. I heard they removed it, but I dunno'. I just wish it was FF11-2 that improved upon FF11.

 

[Dark Phoenix]

FF3: I've only played the DS remake, and it was alright. Not the best game, but not the worst. It's okay in difficulty, not too hard but not too easy. A little frustrating at times, but all in all a pretty okay game.

Yeah, my understanding is the difficulty was massively lowered for the DS remake of III. The original had a number of annoying quirks (though nothing like the ones in II), like that attempting to run automatically set everyone's defense to 0, and the fact that not only are the last five bosses nearly impossible, but they're at the end of a three dungeon slogfest you can't save anywhere in, meaning if you lose to any of the bosses at the end, you get to do the whole triple dungeon over again...

 

[Pryde]

One other thing about FFII. Nice maps, but don't go exploring. If you wander off the intended path, you will be notified by random encounters you shouldn't be encountering for many, many hours killing you to death. Happy trails!

....how is it I beat II, but stopped playing VIII? There's something not quite right with that, but I can't put my finger on it. <_<

 

[Kread-EX]

The main problem with FF3 (I speak of the original, not the remake) was that, even with a job system, the player was 'locked' into certain jobs for certain sections. Not locked by the system, but locked by the circumstances.

At the beginning of the game, you're pretty much forced to keep Black Mage because you're under the Midget status effect all the time.

When you get Mystic Knight, you're forced to use it for long sections because the Dark Sword is the only thing that can prevent enemies of dividing when you hit them.

When you get Dragoon, you're forced to use it to not be raped by Garuda (and even if you do use it, you can very well be raped anyway).

And when you get Ninja and Sage, you'll never use anything else because every other job sucks in comparison: Ninja combines all fighter classes and Sage all magic classes.

Overall you had no room for customization. Got a new job? Use it or die.

 

[SOC]

The main problem with FF3 (I speak of the original, not the remake) was that, even with a job system, the player was 'locked' into certain jobs for certain sections. Not locked by the system, but locked by the circumstances.

At the beginning of the game, you're pretty much forced to keep Black Mage because you're under the Midget status effect all the time.

When you get Mystic Knight, you're forced to use it for long sections because the Dark Sword is the only thing that can prevent enemies of dividing when you hit them.

When you get Dragoon, you're forced to use it to not be raped by Garuda (and even if you do use it, you can very well be raped anyway).

And when you get Ninja and Sage, you'll never use anything else because every other job sucks in comparison: Ninja combines all fighter classes and Sage all magic classes.

Overall you had no room for customization. Got a new job? Use it or die.

This is exactly how I felt about FF5... It's labeled with freedom, but plagued by conformity.

 

[Dark Phoenix]

This is exactly how I felt about FF5... It's labeled with freedom, but plagued by conformity.

FF5 doesn't suffer from conformity to the level 3 does. There are a number of effective strategies in 5 for making powerful characters, especially in the Advance Remake (the new jobs offer a number of interesting alternatives, especially the Gladiator class).

IMO, most class-based games suffer from a bit of this. Yeah, there are millions of combinations, but some are clearly better tha others. How many people have beaten FFTactics simply by fielding 5 Ninjas (because Ninjas are ridiculously fast in Tactics)?

 

[Kread-EX]

FFT is beatable with every class. The only real battle where you're locked is Wiegraf in Riovanes, and even for that one you have at least 4-5 viable strategies. Grinding for Ninjas (and with Monk abilities) is not required and you only do it for the satisfaction of destroying everything in your path. It's very possible to use 5 Squires and win.

FF5 is the same, you don't have to use a class if you don't want to and you can beat the game with anything. There are obviously builds much more powerful than others (Black Mage or Summoner with Lancet? Count me in) but you can tackle bosses with whatever you want (except the Fork Tower, which is designed that way).

But FF3 is different. You have a lot of jobs, but no choice in which one you use. The game chooses for you and if you disobey, you DIE.

 

[HermanMachine]

My opinion on FF games...

FF3: Played the DS remake. I kind of dug it, but I stopped playing it when another game came out and never went back.

FF9: Probably the FF game I remember the most. But when I think about it, I've never actually played it. I just have a lot of memories from watching my brother play it.

FF10: First FF game that I actually legit played. Got all the way to the final boss. Never beat it. Can't remember why. :/

FF12: Only FF game I've actually played and completely finished. People give this one a lot of ****. I liked it. Vaan was stupid, but whatever.

As for 4, 7, 8, 13 and 13-2, I've played a little bit of all of these but not enough to have an opinion.

 

[tpasmall]

I actually liked FFII, I got Ultima pretty early (through grinding and exploring), and the game wasn't too hard after that. Dawn of Souls was a lot harder then the actual game and I just didn't feel like grinding to beat it. (Got to the second level of Pandamonium).

 

[crimcrim]

I hated FF12. Vaan was the most generic lady/guy thing ever. By far my least favorite protagonist in the series. I mean, the hell is wrong with his chest, it's like painted on abs. Also him being generic to no extent and basically a girl didn't help.

 

[Dark Phoenix]

FFT is beatable with every class. The only real battle where you're locked is Wiegraf in Riovanes, and even for that one you have at least 4-5 viable strategies. Grinding for Ninjas (and with Monk abilities) is not required and you only do it for the satisfaction of destroying everything in your path. It's very possible to use 5 Squires and win.

FF5 is the same, you don't have to use a class if you don't want to and you can beat the game with anything. There are obviously builds much more powerful than others (Black Mage or Summoner with Lancet? Count me in) but you can tackle bosses with whatever you want (except the Fork Tower, which is designed that way).

But FF3 is different. You have a lot of jobs, but no choice in which one you use. The game chooses for you and if you disobey, you DIE.

That was sort of the point I was trying to get at. 5 and Tactics have strategies that clearly rise above all others, but there aren't a lot of combinations that just plain don't work. I never got far in the original III, but I've heard more than one person mention that the game forces certain class combinations on you repeatedly. Though I doubt it's more annoying than Square making running in III a death sentence.

As for overpowered class combinations... Mystic Sword + Rapid Fire + Dual Wield, anybody? I one-shotted Omega with it.

 

[Kread-EX]

I hated FF12. Vaan was the most generic lady/guy thing ever. By far my least favorite protagonist in the series. I mean, the hell is wrong with his chest, it's like painted on abs. Also him being generic to no extent and basically a girl didn't help.

That's what you get when executives force the developers to add a character at the last minute because they think the audience will identify to him more easily. And it worked: Vaan is very popular in Japan, to the point he's still the main character of Revenant Wings and also returns in FFTA2, where he acts exactly like Balthier, but without the British-like classiness.

 

[Dark Phoenix]

Japan loves the oddest characters. Case in point: Tingle. There is a near-universal hatred of the guy outside of Japan.

 

[Kread-EX]

What can I say, Japanese love their bishies. Vaan is the closest they get in FF12 (Larsa is too young for it).