Discussion in 'Video Games' started by DamianFatale, Jan 25, 2016.
The best game in the series IMO. It deserves way more attention than it gets.
Even 20 years later it still get's a lot of attention.It's considered one of the best rpg's ever. How should it get more attention?
(I also really liked it though.)
Serious question: what's so good about it? The gameplay is repetitive and grindy and the characters are boring and forgettable. The only thing I ever hear anyone talk about is Kefka, who's just a 16-bit plagiarization of The Joker.
Boring? It talks about a Samurai who lost his Kingdom to the empire, a woman who was a top general and defected, a half esper/half human that has a massive amount of power, a moogle that lost all of his friends in an apocalypse, a boy who was kicked out of his fathers house the moment he was born, a man who has a moving castle, a monk who ran away from royalty to train in his art, an adventurer that dreams of finding phoenix, so that he can revive his long lost girlfriend, an airship pilot that runs a flying casino, and lost someone precious to him, and so on. How much more drama, and excitement do you need? It also pushes the boundaries and experients with new classes. it didn't want to conform to the typical black mage, white mage, and warrior thing. It went beyond.
Here's your homework. Count at each plot development point/conversation - how many screens of text do they use for developing plot? This game gets a lot of attention because it is the first game that went mainstream, that had a true focus on the character development. People connect with characters/people. This was the first step, the entire genre followed suit
Drama and excitement is a matter of presentation moreso than the content. You can have the most exciting premise in the world but if the execution is lackluster, then it'll be boring. FFVI's narrative is soulless and devoid of emotion. And while yes, it did new things gameplay-wise for its time, RPG design has progressed significantly since then. You can acknowledge that it was good for it's time while also recognizing that it doesn't hold up to today's standards of game design.
Another good example is the original Halo, which was revolutionary for its time, but the later installments developed its gameplay so much that it's hard to go back to the original now.
FFVI just doesn't hold up to today's standards of RPGs.
Ah, FF6, to this day, it's still the best FF.
That said, I can see why so many like FF7 if only slightly more. But it's clear that both FF6 and FF7 are the best games in the series.
I think the big major reason why FF6 may not be as popular is the medium that its displayed in. Graphics wise, I think it's fair to say 7 and anything after that will blow 6 out of the water simply on the basis of what tech was available to it, and when you've got SE at the helm, creating extremely gorgeous games, well, it's a no brainer.
That said, FF6 at the time looked really nice at the time. Then again, so did Goldeneye (I still like Goldeneye even to this day) and some other N64 titles. The question is, has people's views on games such as FF6, FF4, and even FF1, been tainted because the medium of yesteryear doesn't hold up?
FF6 does have powerful scenes in it, the Spirit Train, the pre-cursor scene after the apocalypse, the Opera scene, it pulls them off really well. I think one of the key contributing factors in making these scenes work is the soundtrack, it just seems to hit the mood perfectly. If anything, I think FF6 is one of the few games that has withstood the test of time pretty well. Honestly, I think FF6's Opera scene is more powerful than FF7's... you know which one.
That said, I do feel that there are some weak moments of characterisation. Celes does seem a little flat when you first get her, Terra's seemingly non-involved, even more so in the post-apoc world (probably one of the least involved main protagonists in the series. Heck, you can finish the game without her.) Even then, you do feel Terra (she's got a lot of layers) and Celes (especially later on with Celes) and for the largest cast at the time, I think a pretty good job is done with balancing them. You are bound to find at least a couple that you'll have some attachment to, and you will get some good backstory to go with it.
There's a lot more positives than negatives, and as the guy has suggested, there is a lot of good going on for the characters. That said, the question is if it holds up today... holds up a lot better than the majority of the FF series for a start. FF6 also had some good strategy behind it. I will admit that once you get to the post-Apoc world, it does seem a little grindy as you get ready for the big fight now that you are no longer held to any rails, but I think there are people that find that appealing, the choice to explore the world at their leisure and see if they can find their old comrades to hopefully restore the world.
There's all this talk about remaking FF7 and all that. But personally, I think there's just a ton of potential in FF6. We know what FF7 looks like in brilliant 3D, so why not bring the best of the 2D FFs (sorry FF4) to 3 dimensions, and give it the 8th gen treatment, and fully bring the game out to a new level? I think if you kept the exact same story, but gave it the new bells and whistles, you'll get a mighty impressive game that would tick all the right boxes if it came out today as a new game.
Final Fantasy VI doesn't need an update, because its graphics are perfect for the time. It was released at the end of the SNES era. Final Fantasy VII actually depends on a remake, because a lot of people in the newer generations don't want to touch it for its out of date 3D style. It's uglier. It's pretty obvious which is better.
I think it holds up just fine. A lot of people enjoy it, maybe not you though.
Compared to today of course FF VI doesn't hold up anymore, but it's the first rpg with a focus on story and it does have a very fun an balanced battle system. It's a classic because without it, rpg's wouldn't be what they are today.
DamianFatale, please avoid double posting, as it is against the forum rules. You can review our forum rules here. Thank you.
My favourite is Final Fantasy Tactics but VI is a close second. It's a very good game.
I wouldn't call the characters of this game boring though, most are well developed I think, I personally don't like Terra and Celes very much (gotta agree they are bland and I couldn't even tell the difference between them sometimes) but Setzer, Shadow, Edgar and Sabin are amazing and the others are decent enough. Also the game is grindy only if you want it to be grindy (if you want to learn all the spells for all the characters for example) but the main story can be completed from start to finish without grinding at all.
It is true that Kefka is a bit of a clone of the Joker but he works very well as a villain and he's still one of the most popular FF villains even today, only Sephiroth beats him popularity-wise, also he is the only FF villain that managed to accomplish something at the end (yeah I'm looking at you Ex-Death, ahahahah).
I'm not entirely sure if it holds up today or not but who cares? It's a very nice experience overall and fun to play, I like to wear my nostalgia glasses and play it again from time to time (along with Suikoden 2 and Xenogears).
VI actually get's a lot of attention, it recently got a PC port and new GFX which you either like or hate I'm in the middle mainly because the GFX are good but not great and kinda overly bright... But the main thing about the PC port I like is that it's using the lossless soundtrack! Which I think is fantastic! I think VI should have been released on the PS1 even with 2D GFX so that at least we got CD quality audio and possibly better gfx...
I like VI, but like VII a whole lot better!
Ok so I am a huge fan of FF and seeing any sort of thread like this can really eat me up because of the lack of attention to details that people will often fall to and give a great game, bad credit.
Let's look at the series as a whole, shall we?
FINAL FANTASY 1:
The poster child and beginning of all great things comes the first title of Final Fantasy. Though I didn't play this title through to completion (as the final boss was Garland and I already knew his entire story due to FF9. I'm a youngling. Sorry, haha. This game brought the idea of an RPG to consoles. You played a rather unremarkable 'hero' and saved the world from a villain who sought to end it. Nothing truly special here unless you look into the future, but we'll cover FF9 shortly.
FINAL FANTASY 2:
Sorry I skipped this title.
FINAL FANTASY 3:
The ACTUAL FF3 is absolutely horrendous and has a terrible, lack-luster villain. Cloud of Darkness is boring in every single way and even falls to the absolute bottom of my playlist in that FF fighting game. I forgot the name, I apologize. Ehrjeiz was better anyway.
FINAL FANTASY 4:
Here is where things finally began to turn around for the series, in my opinion. Valued highly for the fact that the game followed a hero who truly developed throughout the game due to the ultimate betrayal from his best friend, Kain and the fall of his kingdom. While many people will claim that this game was amazing, I am actually in left field on this one. While it did have its pros, I felt the story advanced to quickly and that the game really screwed up by making you restart at level 1 almost immediately before fighting Cagnazzo and the other 3 fiends. I actually had to quit playing this game on my iPhone because of the apps lag in those battles.
FINAL FANTASY 5:
Skipped this title too.
FINAL FANTASY 6:
Ok so, let's go ahead and tackle this monster of a game. FF6 was a game of firsts, for certain. My first play-thru was actually terrible because I didn't expect the game developers to throw Atma weapon at me (I failed to stop Ultima the first time.. hah.) AND I LET SHADOW DIE!!!! Anyway, that aside, the game does allow you to miss out on things that are critical to the game (in their own right). Losing Shadow is definitely bad but having the experience in there gave a nice little bit of replay value. The Paladin Shield.... jesus if only I had known BEFORE I sacrifice Ragnarok for an esper! Another loss that you don't really pay dearly for. The special end game bosses are also a nice little addition. While they don't actually add any story to the game, it did add easily one of the most difficult FF bosses of all time to the game. Mind you, I fought Ozma in FF9 without doing any of the friendly monster side quests.
Terra may seem like a helpless little girl but the game does a good job of developing the character in showing her that there is another side of life and eventually she comes around, setting her sights on ridding the world of the ultimate evil, Kefka Palazzo.
The Magic Knight girl (her name is lost to me at the moment and I'm too lazy to switch screens) had to turn on her role as a FREAKIN GENERAL! The kind of pay you get in that sort of position!? Pfft, I would have been an uninteresting slayer and kept on doing Kefka's bidding.
General Leo. Nuff said.
Cyan was definitely a fun character and his side quest with the dream realm was GENIUS! Who would have thought that sleeping in that rather normal castle was going to trap me in one of the most painful side quests of the game?
The moogles in this game actually made me miss their character presence in later titles. While Final Fantasy Tactics did allow you to have a dancer, which is essentially was Mog was in FF6, it just didn't feel the same.
Edgar. Honestly, Zidane is the only character that eventually takes on a sort of lecherous role but most of his was all for the same girl. Edgar wanted every girl. While I don't condone such behavior (maybe a little), this made the character slightly interesting from the get-go. If I have any complaints about Edgar, it's the fact that in the world of Ruin, he really was obvious and it bothered me that they simply used a recolored sprite in place of the original.
Sabin: The sad part about Sabin is that his story development really did end shortly after you got him. He remains a generous person from beginning to end.
Setzer: If you are going to be mad about any character this should be the one. As a gambler, you do expect his fair share of useless abilities with bad reels but the game gave me the low end deal no matter what gear and stat setup I had with him leaving much to be desired. Guess you can like him if you like chaos.
Gau: Who can't love Gau? His crazy, wild antics and a rather unique take on the blue-mage style character, I'd say this is one of the most original characters they've had. While every game in the series has had one or two, Cait Sith in FF7 was boring. Quina in FF9 was a FAT HEFFER WHO ATE EVERYTHING AND STUCK HER TONGUE IN YOUR FOOD. Nuff said. FF10 had nobody unique in all seriousness. FFX-2 was bad. Just bad. but not to get sidetracked, moving on.
Kefka Palazzo: While yes, Kefka is basically the joker, that's just like saying ALL MMO'S ARE LIKE WARCRAFT! Turns out, originality has been out the window for ages. Get over it. His antics, the fact that you couldn't take him serious as a main bad guy until he betrays Gestahl and then rises as essentially a god, is awesome. He literally pulled on over on you if you didn't read ahead and catch all the spoilers.
Anyway, my post is huge and my hands hurt so I will have one final statement.
FF6 is infinitely better than boring Cloud Strife and his whining game (FF7). FF9 was the most fun with easily the best mini-game. FF10 has one of the most spiritual stories ever in the series and I absolutely loved it... until I grinded to fight Penance. FF13 had the worst, straight line, ultimate weapon acquisition method of any Final Fantasy ever.
If you should have any frustration with games, it should lie in what's ahead of us. The only good RPG developers these days are Bethesda and the makers of Mass Effect.
Now go ahead, rage and flame up my post. I love debate
I'm not even sure what this is supposed to mean, because taking it as literally as possible results in a glaringly-false statement.
Tactics is clearly the best game in the series.
VI gets tons of love, what world do you live on.
VI wasn't even the best Final Fantasy game on the SNES. (That would be V)
Sorry that came out wrong. FF13 had the worst, straight-line story of all the FFs. Hope was the single lamest character in the series. Lightning is literally female Cloud and she DOESN'T EVOLVE until the end of the game. She was boring from start to finish. Luckily the game had a redeeming character in Fang. Barthandelous was a boring enemy and I hate that they continued to use him right up to the end.
Sahz was so bad. I'm a happy guy! I'm mad that I am infected and turned into an enemy of society! I'm happy because we're awesome at fighting! I'm mad because Sarah is at fault for everything! Five seconds later, he's freakin happy again like nothing happened. What the hell?
Getting legendary weapons in FF13 took an insane amount of time with little reward. Grinding in FF13's "Calm Lands" was boring but it was the ONLY FREE ROAM in the entire game, leaving SO MUCH to be desired. The most fun I had in this game was fighting the Giant Ochu at way under level.
The Battle system was so bad. I can't even begin to explain my displeasure with not having full control of my characters in an RPG. That is literally one of the main features in RPGs. It's a staple of the genre. You "ROLEPLAY" your characters. Glad the battle system got dumped after 13 but wow, just wow.
The music.... I know I will never see Nobuo Uematsu make another excellent score for this series outside of a few generous contributions but this new guy is bad. His stuff is such a different style that I can't help but hate his work. I'd rather listen to that one genre... what was it? DUBSTEP! Oh god....
Okay, I completely understand where you're coming from now.
At first my knee jerk response to your first and third statements was something like total fanboy fury. Then I stepped back about half a second later and realized two things:
1. I spent maybe 250+ hours playing Final Fantasy Tactics and honestly cried a little when I thought I lost the disk
2. I got so caught up in leveling everyone in all the classes in Final Fantasy V I never finished it.
So you have some solid evidence supporting your view as far as I'm concerned. But still you have to admit Kefka was a smashing villain. Now if you'll excuse me I'm going to dust off my PS2.
Oh, before forget. I'll have to pass. I don't like being dizzy.
And before people have a heart attack: Its not that I dislike VI. There is nothing really, majorly WRONG with VI. Like wrong enough to make it a bad game.
It has a good playable cast. The pacing is pretty solid.
But it isn't without flaws, and some of the flaws are the very things people like about it.
First of all. Kefka is a crap villain. He's a joke. He has no reason for existing other than that the game needs a villain. He's not even a Joker ripoff because you know what makes the Joker interesting? His compare/contrast to Batman. Without that, Kefka is just. Boring. He's badly written. There is no REASON for his existence. Hell, he has backstory, but the only way you would know is one NPC, at one point in the game, that is totally missable, who says ONE line about who Kefka is. Nothing is explored with Kefka. Nothing is, anything with Kefka. He just exists to be "LOL CRAZY".
And the other thing. Ok, guys. Its time to admit, that the Opera scene is not great. 1. There is nothing storyline or thematically about the Opera scene that in any way actually makes it emotional. Its not a climactic point in the game. Its just "Hey, throw you guys in here because you need an airship." And 2. the music? WARBLE WARBLE WARBLE. "OMG THIS IS SO AMAZING". Guys. Guys. It sounds stupid. its not great. Get over it. The scene is just, entirely without any real emotion or well, anything impressive.
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