Floor-by-Floor Temporary Stat Penalty?

[Shuruzy]

Hello! I've been thinking about a side project, and was wondering how a specific mechanic like this would sound:

So, let's say you have a total of 12 playable characters, but you can only have 3 in battle at a time. The game is formatted like a dungeon crawler, & the goal is to reach the top of the tower. I hope to encourage the use of different team combinations and strategies, but I don't want to outright force the player to use characters that they don't want to, so I got an idea like this:

The first time you reach the end of any floor, there will be a barrier that you must break to progress to the next floor. Approaching the barrier forces you to choose three characters to break it. The three chosen characters get a temporary debuff to their stats as a drawback from breaking the powerful barrier.

This temporary debuff will be small, (let's say a 5% debuff to all stats. Again, I don't want it to be big enough to completely stop a person from using a character. I just want it to be something they think about.) and it will last until you reach the barrier at the end of the following floor, in which the group that breaks that floor's barrier will be the ones inflicted with this debuff instead.

So to put it in another way:

• The player chooses Characters A, C, and D to break Floor 1’s barrier.
• Characters A, C, and D receive a temporary debuff in stats until Floor 2’s barrier is broken.
• The player chooses Characters B, F, and G to break Floor 2's barrier.
• Characters B, F, and G receive the temporary stat debuff, while Characters A, C, and D's debuffs are removed.
  
  
• Characters B, F, and G now have debuffs until Floor 3’s barrier is broken, and the cycle continues.

Also, if you choose Character A to break floor 1's barrier, you can't choose them to break floor 2's barrier. You have to choose 3 characters who do not already have the debuff on them.

And as a sidenote, I'm also considering having certain parts in the game where you have to use multiple teams. Splitting the 12 into 4 groups to solve a floor's puzzle, for example. Though I'm not fully committed on this party split idea yet, so I'd rather just focus on the debuff idea since that's the topic of this post. Still, if the inclusion of party split segments would influence your decision on the debuff gimmick, then I'd like to hear that, too!

Let me know if the way I worded anything is confusing, and I'll clear it up. Thank you for reading!

 

[Cythera]

So without knowing anything else about your plans, my first thought on reading this was "12 characters, huh? Alright. Let me pick my 3 for my A-Team, and just rotate-sacrifice the remaining characters to break the barrier."
Unless I critically need a specific character for a specific floor - doubtful, since you said...

but I don't want to outright force the player to use characters that they don't want to

so that tells me I don't absolutely need to use a certain character for a certain floor. Which means my most efficient play is to build my A-Team and have the remaining characters as sacrificial pawns for the barriers.

I like the idea, especially for a dungeon-crawler style, but I don't think it's impactful enough. Now if you had the barriers themselves require specifics to break... like the fire barrier needs a water character, and you have 2 water characters, and 2 half-water, half-air characters, then you make the choice. Something like that, ya know? Then you force me to be more strategic, plan out more, use more members. Otherwise, it's my A-Team and I against your whole game

 

[TobyYasha]

5% doesn't feel enough to make a difference, but then again i'm not sure how you handle your stats, i think 20% would be more noticeable. In a sense not 100% enough but maybe more significant to make people think about handling difficult encounters.
Also how long does this debuff last?

 

[Shuruzy]

@Cythera Yeah, I had considered the possibility of people only sticking to certain 3 & having other break the barrier the whole time, though I forgot to mention the battle system I'm using relies heavily on proper elements/resistances, so you may still want other characters for more important fights.

Hitting the enemy with their weakness grants that character an extra action, and hitting an enemy with something that is completely resisted reduces the amount of remaining actions in that turn. Same goes for the enemy team... Basically, if you know of the Shin Megami Tensei/Persona battle system, it's just that .

So there's still a reason to swap characters out if you want to make things easier (bring more fire-users for the ice floors, for example).

But also, I really like your idea about specific elemental barriers! That's something I'll keep in mind.

@Johnny_Ray Ah yeah, a higher percentage may be better! 15-20% seems like a nice area...
And the debuff lasts until you reach the next barrier (a barrier is at the end of every floor, so if you get the debuff at floor 2's barrier, it won't go away until floor 3's barrier).

 

[Cythera]

PTB.
My mortal enemy.

Okay, my unbridled hate for the PTB system aside...if you have an incentive for players to use all characters, then that works* but I still stand by it's not impactful enough. 5% is a tiny amount. 15% and I'd pause. 20% and I'd put effort into strategizing. Anything more than 25% and I'd get a little meh - what if I don't know what the next floor is like, and who's going to be most optimal? What if I only have one water user, and use them on the barrier but the next floor is fire? Welllll....huh. My water user is broken and not in a good way.
*I'd still just use an A-Team either which way. I might be the minority there, hence the side note.

I'm just trying to give you ideas from a player side for this :3 I do think it's a cool idea! I would be so very nice and give players randomized barriers with specific keys and if they can't make the keys, demand a different sacrifice. Or stack the unlock effect on characters - oh, you used Harold to unlock Gate A previously, and now use him to unlock Gate B? Here, have a 50% stat reduction! Or a level down!
But maybe I'm just cruel. I should make a rogue-like...

 

[LordOfPotatos]

the idea works but it's still "forcing" the player to use characters they might not want to use, just in a more subtle way.
that's different from them Wanting to use more characters.

a way to make the player actually Want to use all the characters is to have floors that require multiple parties at once to clear. like 2 hallways with levers that open the other's doors. or 4.
that way the player will keep more characters relevant instead of being forced to leave their main crew.

another way is through enemy design, if your 12 characters are somewhat specialized you can use different enemy weaknesses to make the optimal play to keep everyone relevant. and players like optimal play.

and another one is party interactions. many will level everyone and try every combination just for the banter.

 

[Shuruzy]

@Cythera aaa not a fan of ptb... yeah, understandable! Definitely not a battle system for everyone

And that's a fair point about, not knowing exactly what the next floor has... Though like you said, the wouldn't stop you from using your A-Team, which is also what I want! Trying to strike a balance between "play how you want" and "experiment with combinations" feels tricky...

And oh wow, I hadn't even thought of randomized barriers with specific requirements! That's also something to consider!


@LordOfPotatos All of those are good points, too. It's another reason why party-split segments are on my list of considerations.

And yep, the 12 are somewhat specialized, though each character can fulfil multiple roles & I try to have most "things" be doable by multiple characters (like 3 different characters who can use the wind element). So that could also be an incentive to swap team members.

And yessss banter!! I live for banter and character interactions, so that's definitely something I plan to have in this (a bulk of the character interaction moments, outside of the main story, are through sidequests and side-conversations that unlock after each floor)!