Fonts and commercial RM games

[Matseb2611]

I've been reading up about font usage online and I just don't get it. The copyright laws for them seem very convoluted, so I was wondering how other commercial devs handled it. What sort of fonts are allowed in commercial RM games? Say if I used a font that comes with MS Office by default, such as Garamond, Constantia, or Book Antiqua, can it legally be used in a commercial game without incurring a fee or getting me into trouble? Would it be considered as redistributing the font if it's included in the game folder? What about using these fonts in a digital (PDF) game manual?

Thanks in advance.

 

[??????]

Just an fyi, I have a custom font handling system that uses an mage reel as fonts rather than use any normal fonting methods..

Doesnt really help with your question, but yea...

 

[boldpaste2]

MS Fonts should be OK to use in commercial games because Microsoft users already have them. All your doing is calling them up. As for fonts you get online, just look for the usage on the download page though most fonts I have seen are "for personal use only".

 

[Shian]

As for fonts you get online, just look for the usage on the download page though most fonts I have seen are "for personal use only".

Usually with an option somewhere to pay for, donate or otherwise talk to the owner of the font for commercial use. Online fonts are nice in that many good ones have cheap licences.

MS Fonts are not automatically usable. Perhaps if you own a business-level Microsoft Office you can use them (but then again this might apply only to Office programs).

Take Arial as an example. Pretty much everyone has it, but Monotype (the copyright holder) usually only allows use in personal or internal business purposes (I imagine like writing reports etc.) You can buy a separate licence from Monotype for commercial use. Commercial use of Arial is also included in some font packs by Adobe. Finally there are free alternatives like GNU FreeFont FreeMono, which you can use commercially free of charge.

 

[RadiantCadenza]

Would it be considered as redistributing the font if it's included in the game folder? What about using these fonts in a digital (PDF) game manual?

For the first question: YES. For the second, Depends on the format. If the font is embedded in the file, then yes, it counts as distribution. 

Basically, Font copyrights seem convoluted, because the laws on the books were mainly written with printed material in mind.

Any regulations dealing with digital uses are basically tacked-on afterthoughts.  

FYI, a "commercial license," isn't even enough for use in a game/software. You need what's usually called an ""Application License" or "Embedding License" but the problem is, RPG maker doesn't encrypt it's font folder, so even WITH the proper license, you can't use it with RPG maker without it counting as redistribution. 

The two ways around those issues are:

1. Use a font that is 100% free and can be freely redistributed. For example: The default RPG maker VX ACE font is actually one of those. It's not Enterbrain's font. 

2 use a sprite/image based font: This is kind of a weird technicality, but if you convert the letters in your font to picture images, like a .png for example, then most of the rules for PRINT apply rather than for digital. So then a standard commercial license will be enough without needing an implication license. So, if you use a font to make game-over screens and such you're in the clear if you have a commercial use license. But you can use a script to replace the in-game font with a sprite instead of an actual font, so you can use that as a workaround. And then some HUD scripts (like Moghunter's) use sprite fonts. I know that sounds like a stupid rule, but it mainly has to do with the fact that fonts are basically vector-based and have infinite resolution so you can edit and re-size the symbols on the fly, while once it's in a sprite or an image, it's frozen into it's current size and pixel resolution. For example, with web pages, you need an embedding license to use a font on a web site, BUT if the font is only used for thing like banners then you only need a commercial license. 

 

[Matseb2611]

That's so crazy. I still don't think I fully understand what 'embedding' a font means. Does that mean it's possible to extract it from the file in some way?

With all these complex copyright laws, I might end up not using any custom fonts for the project itself, but now I'm making a manual for the game that will be included in the game folder and I am concerned as to whether I can legally use MS Fonts to type it up and have it converted to PDF format. Also, does it make a difference whether I have the manual inside the game folder (and hence considered as part of a commercial product) or whether say I have it available online somewhere for download (where anyone can get it)?

I'll take a look at those GNU free fronts. If they allow redistribution, it might make things easier. It's just I read that using free fonts that are found on the net can be risky, because some of them could be available for free illegally.

 

[cabfe]

Maybe I'm saying something stupid but I was thinking about how music was handled.

The music is, like the font, "available" in the final product as it's not encrypted.

So, if for music a "free to use for commercial" licence is right, it should be the same for the font or am I missing something?

 

[RadiantCadenza]

Embedding a font, basically means that the font file itself is part of the document, so that you can edit the document even if you don't have the font installed. 

As for the manual thing, if you're in such a situation where someone is picky enough and seriously willing to pursue legal action against you, a free manual for a commercial game could be construed as advertising and thus, commercial use. 

Honestly, the legal technicalities of font usage are mainly semantics. It's best to literally just ask the font's owner for permission if you're not sure. I think a lot of indie font makers would be totally fine with it, you just can't assume so without asking them. 

I've only been trying to point out what is legally the "safest" thing to do.

If you want to be iron-clad sue-proof, actually read the license agreement for the font and make sure it explicitly says you're allowed to use it the way you want to use it. But that goes for ANY resource you want to use, which should be common sense, honestly. 

Since cabfe pointed out the thing about unencrypted commercial music, that's because the licenses for most of that music specifically ALLOW the music to be distributed with the game. For purposes of being used in the game. Most standard font license agreements don't really take game making into account since the assume the fonts will be used for signs and documents. 

 

[BCj]

So, like, I'm using Georgia. I can't use it for my commercial game? Or I need to buy a license or? Can't really find a proper answer on microsoft's site.

 

[Matseb2611]

Since cabfe pointed out the thing about unencrypted commercial music, that's because the licenses for most of that music specifically ALLOW the music to be distributed with the game. For purposes of being used in the game. Most standard font license agreements don't really take game making into account since the assume the fonts will be used for signs and documents. 

Yeah, that seems to be a problem. Most of the font licenses are aimed at font usage in books and publications, and so it becomes difficult to apply that to a video game.

Thanks for clearing it all up. I might just have to go the safe route then and not use MS Fonts within the game itself.

 

[RadiantCadenza]

Default Microsoft fonts like Georgia, Arial, Times New Roman, etc. Are actually fine to use. 

Because the user has their OWN license to use the font. Since RPG maker games only run on windows, you shouldn't have to worry about the user not having the fonts either as long as you stick to the basics.

Most of the copyright messiness comes into play when the font is PART of your game. If your game is set up to use a font that is already in the user's computer, it's not part of the game. 

Just don't put it in your fonts folder. 

 

[DarkCreator50]

Sorry about asking, but I just want a bit more clarification. What about fonts such as chiller regular, bell MT, Harrington regular, and Monotype corsiva? Are those considered default microsoft fonts?

 

[RadiantCadenza]

No. Just these: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_typefaces_included_with_Microsoft_Windows

I believe those fonts you listed are included in Microsoft office? 

In which case, while you are legally able to set up your game to use those fonts, you cannot legally include the file as part of your game. If the user playing your game has Microsoft office, then those fonts will show up as intended. However, if they do not, then the fonts will not display. If you use such fonts, It is highly recommended you use a message script that allows you to set a back-up font in the event the desired font is not found. If I remember right, Modern Algebra's ATS is one such set of scripts. Personally, I would avoid using them for a commercial game because of the fact that not everyone will have them, and you want the user experience to be as consistent as possible. 

I think open source fonts included in your game's font folder are the best way to go, in general. 

 

[Nathanial]

MS Fonts should be OK to use in commercial games because Microsoft users already have them. All your doing is calling them up. As for fonts you get online, just look for the usage on the download page though most fonts I have seen are "for personal use only".

Default Microsoft fonts like Georgia, Arial, Times New Roman, etc. Are actually fine to use. 


Because the user has their OWN license to use the font. Since RPG maker games only run on windows, you shouldn't have to worry about the user not having the fonts either as long as you stick to the basics.


Most of the copyright messiness comes into play when the font is PART of your game. If your game is set up to use a font that is already in the user's computer, it's not part of the game. 


Just don't put it in your fonts folder.

Oh man, I need to disclaimer the crap out of this, if you don't mind.


Sure, use fonts that are installed on systems, by all means. But do NOT redistribute the font with your game. You do NOT have the rights to do that at all (without paying for a license)!


Any font you distribute with your game you need to own a license for. Please do your research too... A lot of "free" fonts out there are just stolen fonts and you don't actually have legal rights. Some might actually be legit free but require a redistribution/commercial license. Pay the fee or find a way to bitmap your fonts. That's the only "workaround" (do this at your own risk).


If you can't pay the $300 to license a decent font, try to find something open source. But don't assume that just because you have a font included with Windows that you have rights to package it with your game.

 

[Sharm]

Wow, what a mess. Okay, I'm convinced. I'm going to save up and buy font creation software. From the looks of it, it'll be worth it even if I only create a couple fonts.

 

[Nathanial]

Wow, what a mess. Okay, I'm convinced. I'm going to save up and buy font creation software. From the looks of it, it'll be worth it even if I only create a couple fonts.

I wish you luck, Sharm. Depending on how complicated you need your font to be, it might not be that bad. A lot of font creators usually spend a LONG time creating a single font. It will also be their first font... as well as their swansong. Then again, it sounds like you're making a font just for yourself, so you don't need to worry about a lot of the stuff behind creating fonts for the masses/systems etc...

 

[BCj]

Oh man, I need to disclaimer the crap out of this, if you don't mind.


Sure, use fonts that are installed on systems, by all means. But do NOT redistribute the font with your game. You do NOT have the rights to do that at all (without paying for a license)!


Any font you distribute with your game you need to own a license for. Please do your research too... A lot of "free" fonts out there are just stolen fonts and you don't actually have legal rights. Some might actually be legit free but require a redistribution/commercial license. Pay the fee or find a way to bitmap your fonts. That's the only "workaround" (do this at your own risk).


If you can't pay the $300 to license a decent font, try to find something open source. But don't assume that just because you have a font included with Windows that you have rights to package it with your game.

Wait what, so using Georgia isn't okay? Or what do you mean by distribute? I guess distibution doesn't mean "put the font in the fonts folder with your game" in this case?


Have people really been sued over this? :x

 

[Nathanial]

What I mean by distribute is packing the font with your game. For any reason that may be. Perhaps you have a Mac version of your game via wine, etc. You'd need the font included with the game for it to work across all systems.


Some systems, even though it's unlikely, might not have all the fonts included with Windows. Some people might not install them all for whatever reason. For systems like that, you might not actually SEE text at all. So the solution would be to bundle the font with the game instead of just calling for Georgia installed on the system via a script.


In cases where you bundle the font with the game to prevent that, you DO need a license. The Microsoft fonts are VERY pricey. I looked into licensing one for a game I'm making that's multi-platform.. They wanted $3,500. There's much cheaper fonts out there. I ended up licensing a very nice font for $299 and it actually allows me to use the font for 5 commercial titles.


YMMV, of course. Do plenty of testing and research on whatever font you end up going with. Whether you're using a font included with Windows, or bundling one... Make sure all your legal grounds and licensing is covered...


And to answer your question about being sued, yes, it has happened in the past. There's entire foundations out there that look for violations. You might not be flat out sued, but they'll come to you expecting you to pay for the licensing if not worse. The odds of that happening, I don't know. But why play roulette?

 

[Sharm]

I wish you luck, Sharm. Depending on how complicated you need your font to be, it might not be that bad. A lot of font creators usually spend a LONG time creating a single font. It will also be their first font... as well as their swansong. Then again, it sounds like you're making a font just for yourself, so you don't need to worry about a lot of the stuff behind creating fonts for the masses/systems etc...

Thanks. I've actually made a couple of fonts before so I do know a little of what I'm getting into, it's just that Font Forge has got to be the absolute least user friendly program out there and I never did figure out how to adjust kerning. Pixel Myth comes with a font, actually.

 

[BCj]

3.500?! What on earth??


Well, guess I have to hunt for a free font that looks relatively like Georgia so I can embed that as 2nd font (and add it to the font folder) so people will be able to see something at least.