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BCj

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So, I recently started diving into documenting everything in my game, and so far everything I have is commercially allowed.
But now I stumbled upon a roadblock.. Fonts.
I found out that one I was using isn't able to be sued for commercial, the terms were clear. So that needs to be replaced.
For my messageboxes and such I am using Calibri. I can't find any terms for it, most forums say it's fine, another one had a font site telling him a license costed 3k (?) but couldn't back it up.
So I stumbled upon some other fonts named Carlito and Lato, which sort of look like Calibri, but the licences are a big abracabra to me, they're OFL (which as far as I can tell, is free to use for whatever you want as long as credit is given?), Public Domain, but one site also has them listed as GPL, and I don't know what this means.
What do you do about fonts? When can you use them?
 

Trihan

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Carlito was created by Google as a free alternative to Calibri, which isn't free for commercial use. Here are the terms for using Carlito:

PERMISSION & CONDITIONS
Permission is hereby granted, free of charge, to any person obtaining a copy of the Font Software, to use, study, copy, merge, embed, modify, redistribute, and sell modified and unmodified copies of the Font Software, subject to the following conditions:

1) Neither the Font Software nor any of its individual components, in Original or Modified Versions, may be sold by itself.

2) Original or Modified Versions of the Font Software may be bundled, redistributed and/or sold with any software, provided that each copy contains the above copyright notice and this license. These can be included either as stand-alone text files, human-readable headers or in the appropriate machine-readable metadata fields within text or binary files as long as those fields can be easily viewed by the user.

3) No Modified Version of the Font Software may use the Reserved Font Name(s) unless explicit written permission is granted by the corresponding Copyright Holder. This restriction only applies to the primary font name as presented to the users.

4) The name(s) of the Copyright Holder(s) or the Author(s) of the Font Software shall not be used to promote, endorse or advertise any Modified Version, except to acknowledge the contribution(s) of the Copyright Holder(s) and the Author(s) or with their explicit written permission.

5) The Font Software, modified or unmodified, in part or in whole, must be distributed entirely under this license, and must not be distributed under any other license. The requirement for fonts to remain under this license does not apply to any document created using the Font Software.

The copyright notice in question is "Copyright (c) 2010-2013 by tyPoland Lukasz Dziedzic with Reserved Font Name “Carlito”. "

 

BCj

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Yes, I read that license. But I can't make heads or tails off of it, and google isn't helping since some say you can use it as long as you include the font, and other says you can't. And then there's the GPL thing that some sits have attributed to Carlito, and some haven't, which is also problematic.
In simple terms, what does this mean?
 

Kes

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Okay, here is an indication of what those points mean.
The opening paragraph tells you what purposes the font can be used for. It covers everything that you would need to do in a game.
#1 You cannot sell the font, or individual characters from it, as a font.
#2 You can use it in other software (your game) as long as you include the copyright notice somewhere in the games files in such a way that either a human or a machine can read it.
#3 You can't use the Carlito name without explicit permission if you have modified it in any way.
#4 You can't claim that Microsoft or tyPoland Lukasz Dziedzic endorse your use ( in your game) without explicit permission.
#5 If you have used the font in something like a game, you can't use any licence other than this one, so must credit the copyright holder. If you have used it in, say, a Word document then there is no need to credit the copyright holder.
 

BCj

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Okay, here is an indication of what those points mean.
The opening paragraph tells you what purposes the font can be used for. It covers everything that you would need to do in a game.
#1 You cannot sell the font, or individual characters from it, as a font.
#2 You can use it in other software (your game) as long as you include the copyright notice somewhere in the games files in such a way that either a human or a machine can read it.
#3 You can't use the Carlito name without explicit permission if you have modified it in any way.
#4 You can't claim that Microsoft or tyPoland Lukasz Dziedzic endorse your use ( in your game) without explicit permission.
#5 If you have used the font in something like a game, you can't use any licence other than this one, so must credit the copyright holder. If you have used it in, say, a Word document then there is no need to credit the copyright holder.
What does 5 mean? Why would you want to use a different license? Or does it mena you cna't use multiple fonts which may have different licenses? I don't get it.
Creditting is well.. the obvious thing to do.

Since rpg maker distributes fonts (well vx ace), is that seen as "selling the font"?

And well, doesn't this whole paragraph mean that commercial usage is fine?
 

Kes

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Since rpg maker distributes fonts (well vx ace), is that seen as "selling the font"?
No it's not. You are not selling the font, you are selling your game which uses the font. In the same way as you are not selling Celianna's Ancient Dungeon tiles (if you use them), but the game in which they appear.

What does 5 mean? Why would you want to use a different license?
Some people might want to as part of a bit of a scam. This does not need to concern you, as you are (I assume) happy to use the original licence.

Or does it mena you cna't use multiple fonts which may have different licenses?
No it doesn't. It never refers at any time to other assets that you might want to use alongside this.

And well, doesn't this whole paragraph mean that commercial usage is fine?
Yes it does. What the licence is doing is specifying how you use it, whether that is in a commercial or non-commercial way.

As for credits being obvious - you haven't seen the number of threads over the years asking if it is absolutely necessary to give credits. It's clear that not everyone wants to, and it is also clear that a lot of people, when they start out, don't see the point of them.
 
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Mrs_Allykat

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What #5 means is that credit is needed in games (and probably videos). If the font is used in a document, it is not required.

In general, when I look for fonts for my games, even though I'm not doing commercial at this point - I look for those using the OFL (Open Font License) or Apache License(s). Just saves the headaches.
 
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BCj

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What #5 means is that credit is needed in games (and probably videos). If the font is used in a document, it is not required.

In general, when I look for fonts for my games, even though I'm not doing commercial at this point - I look for those using the OFL (Open Font License) or Apache License(s). Just saves the headaches.
I got a bit confused, since one site had it listed under GPL. Which means that if you use it, your game should be GPL too? And it apparently needs some exclusion clause?

@Kes thank you very much for clarrifying.
 

Mrs_Allykat

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@BCj Oh these things are all full of "legalize" just to confuse us all. That's why I prefer some of the open-type licenses. At least with OFL and Apache, someone has translated it to English. :p
 
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Kes

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It is irrelevant what other people attribute it as. You have to go by the wording of the licence as set out by the copyright holder. There is nothing, zero, zilch, rien de, nada, nulla about restrictions on subsequent distribution in the way that early forms of GPL at least implied. In this licence it specifically states that you can sell the item in which you have used this font. Read the wording of the first sentence of clause 2. It would be difficult to be clearer than the statement
Original or Modified Versions of the Font Software may be bundled, redistributed and/or sold with any software
Note the phrase I have emphasised.
 

BCj

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@Kes out of curiosity, since you have sold quite some games already, what do you go for with regards to fonts?
 

rue669

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This conversation has made me go back to my font.

And I use a font that is free for personal use but not for commercial use.

And the commercial use costs $160+ a year. Yikes! Who's paying for that?

Since then I've switched to a "free for commercial" font with an OFL. Much easier
 

Kes

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I get mine from fontsquirrel. The site is here. Not all the fonts there are ttf and you must have those for Ace, so check. But they have an enormous range of free to use fonts.
 

BCj

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This conversation has made me go back to my font.

And I use a font that is free for personal use but not for commercial use.

And the commercial use costs $160+ a year. Yikes! Who's paying for that?

Since then I've switched to a "free for commercial" font with an OFL. Much easier
I read someone asked for a commercial license for Calibri (not even for a videogame but web deployment I think) and claimed they asked 3k. That's crazy.
Even 160 is much..
I'm really wondering if small indie game developers are secretly trying to dodge things like that.


I see fontsquirrel has both Lato and Carlito.
I didn't know I needed ttf, so that's good to know.
 

rue669

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@BCj If it was a one shot cost of $160 and you can use it for anything you want...okay, then, maybe. But this was $160 a year for one software application.

Makes no sense. I'm pretty sure I could hire someone to make me a font for less LOL.
 

BCj

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Yeah making your own font could also be an option, I suppose. I'd have no clue how :D
I find fonts to be quite.. hmm. tricky? If the style is somewhat ill-fitting for the theme you're going for, it shows.
 

rue669

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Agreed. I find playing with the size of the font does help. (Plugin needed though).
 
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BCj

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On the matter of windowsfonts I just found this:


Can I embed the fonts into a game, application or device I’m developing based on the document font embedding permissions?
No, document font embedding permissions relate to embedding fonts in documents only, not embedding fonts in games, apps and devices.

If I convert the font into a bitmap font can I include that in my game or app?
No, converting Windows fonts to other formats does not change the rules around embedding or redistribution, and format conversion itself is not allowed. Many Microsoft supplied fonts are available for app and game licensing through the original font foundry or Monotype.

Can I include graphic files (eg. GIFs, PNGs or JPEGs) I create using the fonts in my game or apps, say for a logo or banner?
Yes, you can (provided you're using a product that is not specifically licensed for home, student or non-commercial use). The graphic file must be an image of a word, phrase or passage of text. Converting the font to a bitmap font (where each letter is treated individually) is not allowed.
Guess embedding it in rpg maker is a nono to begin with
 

Kes

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Just checking that you're clear on this - the "it" in the sentence "Guess embedding it in rpg maker..." is referring to the fonts that you get with Windows and that you can use in Word, it is not referring to the font we were discussing earlier.
 

BCj

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Just checking that you're clear on this - the "it" in the sentence "Guess embedding it in rpg maker..." is referring to the fonts that you get with Windows and that you can use in Word, it is not referring to the font we were discussing earlier.
Yeah, I meant for Calibri.
 

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