Freelance writing / Hiring a writer

[JosephSeraph]

Have you ever hired a writer? How does it work?

This could go on the Commercial Games subforum but I feel this is its best home as free games can hire writers too and this really speaks more of the game development aspect than anything sales related.

I'm not particularily great in conveying my ideas into words and although I love worldbuilding and writing stories, I often find I could use some cleanup work and someone to work on them with me. And so a few friends have pointed out that Freelance Writing is a feasible possibility, but I'd like to know how it works! Writing, as well as coding, seem to me much more subjective things than art or music, which can be much easier to objectively assess. Besides, then it comes the duality of losing control over your game or curbing your writer's creativity.

I myself would like to work with a writer by presenting them with a story draft, characters and happenings, concepts etc. and then having them sculpt that into a more refined plot and scenario together with me. Yet somehow I feel this might be too controlling of me? Do writers normally work like that? Am I being a control freak for wanting something like that? lol

What are some other "director"(?)-writer dynamics that there can be?

Also, how does writing traditionally pull off on big companies like Square? What sparked me the interest of hiring a writer was first my own inability as a writer, but secondly it was also my fascination with Chrono Trigger -- I was reading it and saw how the scenario/story draft was made by Yuji Horii, and then handed on to Masato Kato so he would sculpt and polish the game and world. There are quite a few other notable writers from that era (that get a lot less glam than their concept artist or composer counterparts) and I'd love to have some light shed on how they worked!

I'm going to eventually make a thread on hiring coders as well, as its another thing that I don't seem to know much about yet.

Thanks for reading this!

 

[Bonkers]

Well first off you need to decide if they will be writing the entirety of the story (Ghost Writing) and credited to you, or they will be writing from your given plan\existing story and credit will be given to them in full for the story.

Yes they do that, but it is more costly since you've involved two people.  It's more than just brainstorming at that point and you are working towards a finished product.  

You could have a syndicate style story, which is where a group of writers would all take the same name and write under it collectively.  This could be a commission style, but you'd all be working under an assumed name and being paid individually per story.

It doesn't with modern games.  Square promises multiple writers the same game, and then combines scripts making a story less structured.

 

[Foamhead]

I am a semi-professional filmmaker/screenwriter so I'll take a stab at answering your question.

If you're paying a salary then the writers job is to do whatever you ask. If they cannot or will not produce as you wish then you simply hire someone who will. Generally however if you are hiring someone to do something creative it is because they are better at it then you are. In this respect you should generally defer to their judgement when they make creative decisions. It's okay to discuss those decisions and ask them to make their case as to why they think as they do, and even to overrule them if you disagree. After all, they work for you and you are paying them. However, if you are too controlling it is possible for the writer to throw his hands up and say "Why don't your just write it yourself?". If you have a story in mind and just want it "tidied up" then you can write it yourself and then have a writer give it a polish. I do this sometimes if I have the time and inclination.

As to the above posters answer: To my knowledge most people will not ghost-write anything other than autobiographies . After all, why produce a great film or book just so the credit can go to the other guy? I personally would never agree to such an arrangement. On very large projects, and I am just making an educated guess here, they probably assign different areas to different writers under the supervision of a head writer.

Keep in mind that good writers are not cheap and not easy to find. A lot of people on craigslist and similar websites think they can write and will have a large portfolio of work, but they are usually quite deluded and none of their scripts will ever be picked up because they suck. Good writers also seldom look for work on those sites because they know it is next to impossible to find anyone worth their time.

I always tell people there to get all their money in advance.

If you don't have money then you need to entice the writer by having a solid idea and a collaborative attitude. In my case I seldom work on other peoples ideas because most of them are rehashes of tired formulas...zombies, vampires, medieval fantasy and so on. You can also offer to trade if you have skills the writer can use. But heed this warning... if you make an agreement to trade services you make damn sure you hold up your end or you will never again get such a deal and you may lose the legal right to use all the work.

I hope I have helped and feel free to ask me any questions.

 

[JosephSeraph]

I hate the idea of ghost writing, even though I just came across the term XD (I also just woke up so i'll google the term once i take a shower/have breakfast)

But yeah I think it's idiotic to hire someone to make something that'll be credited under your name instead of theirs. I'd much rather have both credited.

Regarding price, I am fully aware that good writers aren't cheap. Good visual / asset artists aren't cheap either, and good musicians, much less so. (price per min can easily range from $100/min to $300/min) But what's HARD on that is that by listening to a song for 2 min you can see if a musician is good, and by staring at a portfolio for 1 you can assess an artist's style, anatomical knowledge, domain over colors, etc. That's way harder for a writer.

In any case could you give me a price range for a video game writer? And I suppose a video game writer is specialized in writing for videogames, so hiring a "regular" writer would end up giving me headaches, huh?

And yeah in my current case it's more like I have a game structure, setting, bases for characters, game length planned but the story is still vague so I'd be looking for someone to take on that sketch-of-a-premise and turn it into a fully fledged story, one that's fit for the format of the game I want to build. I often have a lot of concepts, and as an artist I have these places I have drawn that have meanings to them, I already created this metaphysical cosmology out of my passion for astronomy and magic, so yeah this person would take this setting i'd give them and "connect the dots", while filling the blanks with their creativity and talent

Thank you guys, for being so descriptive!

(btw if there are any writers looking at this thread and wondering if I need a writer: Yes, I do, but my current financial situation isn't one for hiring a writer, so I'm mostly learning how it works and assessing the possibilies in order to decide if and how I should hire a writer in the future.)

 

[Foamhead]

I hate the idea of ghost writing, even though I just came across the term XD (I also just woke up so I'll Google the term once i take a shower/have breakfast)

But yeah I think it's idiotic to hire someone to make something that'll be credited under your name instead of theirs. I'd much rather have both credited.

Regarding price, I am fully aware that good writers aren't cheap. Good visual / asset artists aren't cheap either, and good musicians, much less so. (price per minutes can easily range from $100/min to $300/min) But what's HARD on that is that by listening to a song for 2 minutes you can see if a musician is good, and by staring at a portfolio for 1 you can assess an artist's style, anatomical knowledge, domain over colors, etc. That's way harder for a writer.

In any case could you give me a price range for a video game writer? And I suppose a video game writer is specialized in writing for video games, so hiring a "regular" writer would end up giving me headaches, huh?

And yeah in my current case it's more like I have a game structure, setting, bases for characters, game length planned but the story is still vague so I'd be looking for someone to take on that sketch-of-a-premise and turn it into a fully fledged story, one that's fit for the format of the game I want to build. I often have a lot of concepts, and as an artist I have these places I have drawn that have meanings to them, I already created this metaphysical cosmology out of my passion for astronomy and magic, so yeah this person would take this setting I'd give them and "connect the dots", while filling the blanks with their creativity and talent

Thank you guys, for being so descriptive!

(btw if there are any writers looking at this thread and wondering if I need a writer: Yes, I do, but my current financial situation isn't one for hiring a writer, so I'm mostly learning how it works and assessing the possibilities in order to decide if and how I should hire a writer in the future.)

I think you mean 100 to 300 per hour. Writers have portfolios as well, you just need to take the time to read them. Good writers have a sense of narrative structure, are very descriptive and know how people "talk".

For example from my latest:

                  THAD

Well I reckon' y'all must be starvin' by now.

                  SCOTT

That's not necessary sir.

                  THAD

Nonsense! T'would be our pleasure.

                  CHASTITY

Dean'll stay at least, won'tcha Dean?

You will notice that the characters use improper English, slang and contract words. Most people are not English teachers so they shouldn't speak in grammatically correct sentences. You'll also notice that two of the characters are southern just being looking at HOW they talk, without me having to say "They speak with a southern accent" before dialogue begins.

An example of a good scene description:

"The house is huge with a large hallway for greeting guests. The wallpaper is very old but well maintained and no signs of peeling. The furniture is similarly old but in impeccable condition, the colours everywhere are drab and lifeless. Everything looks like it comes right from out of a ferrotype photograph, and an air of creepiness hangs on everything."

This gives the reader a much better mental picture than: "They are in a big Victorian house". Good writers can paint a picture in your mind.

Good luck with your hunt!

 

[JosephSeraph]

I think you mean 100 to 300 per hour. Writers have portfolios as well, you just need to take the time to read them. Good writers have a sense of narrative structure, are very descriptive and know how people "talk".

I actually mean 100~300 per minute of composed music!

That's pretty interesting! But I think writing for games is probably a bit more in depth than that. For instance, I could describe the place they're in in both ways, or I could just show it to the player through a scenery drawing (my specialty as a visual artist XD)

While it's easier to objectively assess these particular things, it may be harder to assess their ability of crafting a cohesive story, which is something a little bit more subjective. Which reminds me that sometimes there are different writers for different writing assignments, such as the "event planner" which does the screenplay (and dialogue?) of the scenes, the "scenario writer" which I assume writes the setting and the direction of the story on a grand scheme etc.

Of course indie games don't often have that XD

 

[Andar]

writing is usually paid on a per-word-basis, there are several such writing offers on deviant art or similiar pages, usually in the range of cents/word - but a text can get long fast, and the quality of the writing is mixed. And you shouldn't hire a contemporary crimi writer for a fantasy love novella etc...

 

[Foamhead]

writing is usually paid on a per-word-basis, there are several such writing offers on deviant art or similiar pages, usually in the range of cents/word - but a text can get long fast, and the quality of the writing is mixed. And you shouldn't hire a contemporary crimi writer for a fantasy love novella etc...

Other writers might do that, I just give a quote and do the best I can regardless if length. All I need to know is how many minutes it needs to be (I do screenwriting). Of course I have never written a novel or article so they may do it the way you describe.

 

[Shaz]

I hired a writer for my game. IIRC he charged on an hourly basis.


And FWIW, Commercial isn't just for discussing commercial games. It also includes discussion (and advertising) of services, for a fee, whether you're making a commercial game or not. So this topic would fit there well. Unless by "hire" you mean "get someone to do it for free".

 

[TheOriginalFive]

I charge by word or per 1000 as I don't usually write in very long stretches, what with life in the way and all. From previous work, I would expand on an outline given by the client to fit their requirements.

In my recent project for a visual novel, I was given critique on how to make the clean romance more passionate, as in having the main character be more active in defending her choice of partner to her family. I took these suggestions and acted on them.

 

[CateLewitt]

[SIZE=11pt]Hello! As a writer myself, I can assure you that there are times when writers run out of ideas and need someone like you to inspire and control them. So, if you’re still interested in working as a freelance writer together with someone you can search for a business partner and a [/SIZE] freelance writing project here. There are quite a lot of entry-level writing jobs on this website, so you will be able to gain experience. The board is also commission free and has high rates.

 

[Kes]

CateLewitt, please refrain from necro-posting in a thread. Necro-posting is posting in a thread that has not had posting activity in over 30 days. You can review our forum rules here. Thank you.