Gaining XP outside of battle

[Super121830]

After reading a lot in the forums about how exhausting can the battles be, in terms of being the only way to gain Experience Points (or gold and items besides of chests), I thought about alternate ways to get XP.

It's very likely that the examples below have been used already.

1) Collect chests: This is simple, loot x amount of chests and get a XP bonus.

2) Puzzles: Complete the given puzzle to get XP.

3) Buy XP or levels: This may be overpowered if it is not correctly balanced, but it can be possible to get XP by using gold.

4) Battle avoided: Somehow, bypassing normal battles, being that the party is too strong and the player gets an instant victory, or interacting with the environment to defeat the enemies without needing to fight, is a good way to get XP.

5) Items that give XP: They can be very rare, and give a fair amount of XP.

But, they can be more common than you may think. I thought that, when using a food item, you keep the envelope, and by throwing it to a trash can, you get XP, or you can get a bit more when throwing the envelope to a recycle can.

6) Side quest: Rescue the kid on the cave or rebuild the bridge and gain XP for doing that.

Can you tell more ways to get Experience Points?

 

[Kes]

I give exp specifically for exploring, for example, tucked away in corners of the forest, there will be some jars, each of which gives a set amount of exp to the whole party; ordinary looking items that the player checks e.g. that bucket in the kitchen will also give some.  Not huge amounts, but cumulatively very worth while getting.  I have 'secret rooms' which the player can find by thorough exploration and in my current project there is one which is very tricky to find, but which gives 2 people of the player's choice a large amount each.

Exp for side quests, obviously.

 

[Vox Novus]

The elder scrolls series gives exp not for defeating monsters etc, rather by using skills and such. Eventually this contributes to your character's level.

 

[magnaangemon01]

Progressing the story or gaining an achievement.

 

[kerbonklin]

Exploring new areas (some being optional finds), talking through NPC chat dialogue if you have few NPCs total, performing actions like crafting or tool using.

 

[bgillisp]

I've set it up so that some of my quests give out EXP if you manage to complete the quest without a battle, usually for stealth missions where the goal is to get in and get out undetected. If you end up in battle you get the battle EXP instead, which is usually lower in these cases.

 

[Wavelength]

Exploration, as ksjp mentioned, can be a big one.  World of Warcraft gives you a small bonus for each new area you enter for the first time, for example, and Skyborn literally has spots on the map you can walk over to level up (which not only rewards exploration, but can be used as a goal in optional dungeon/town puzzles, which I think is neat).

Item Creation ("crafting") can be another one, especially if there's some element of chance, risk, or skill involved in it.  This often gives you levels specifically toward that type of crafting, but there's no reason it can't give general XP and levels as well.

Accomplishments/Battle Missions (such as "One-Turn KO an enemy", "Hit an Elemental Weakness", or "Win using only magic") are a great way to offer bonus XP (and other rewards) during battle - it makes random battles more interesting and reduces the amount of grinding necessary to build levels.

 

[Sixth]

Well, not a direct XP gain, but I made an XP bonus system which works like this:


The longer the player plays without saving the game, the higher the XP bonus gets. So, taking the risky way and skipping save points will grant extra XP. It's the player's choice to take that risk or not. Well, I use this in an ABS system, so it's pretty much a big battle from the start to the end. Might not work well with regular battle systems where the player can just stay idle for XP bonus, unless the bonus can increase in battles only.


Other than this, most of the other XP gain ways are listed already.


I personally like extra XP for exploring things and finishing puzzles the most.

 

[Wavelength]

Well, not a direct XP gain, but I made an XP bonus system which works like this:

The longer the player plays without saving the game, the higher the XP bonus gets. So, taking the risky way and skipping save points will grant extra XP. It's the player's choice to take that risk or not. Well, I use this in an ABS system, so it's pretty much a big battle from the start to the end. Might not work well with regular battle systems where the player can just stay idle for XP bonus, unless the bonus can increase in battles only.

I like this idea a lot for the types of RPGs that are much more focused much more on game elements than story or progression.  Something like BoF4: Dragon Quarter, or a version of One Way Heroics where you had the ability to save.  Perhaps even Recettear, since a "Game Over" doesn't simply bring you back to a save point.

For your average JRPG, it's a poor idea, of course - at best, you are teasing the player into setting themselves up for losing a lot of story progress and potentially never playing your game again, and at worst you are utterly breaking your game's balance.

 

[Kes]

Or even, player starts game, lets it run without moving, goes off and has lunch, phones a friend etc. etc., comes back a couple of hours later, and collects a nice bonus.  

 

[Sixth]

Luckily in my game, if the player is not in a battle, aka doesn't hit/kill monsters, the bonus decreases gradually. It's surely more feasible in a game with an action battle system, than in a game with a simple turn based system, where the player can get out, come back after a week and get huge XP bonuses.


Also I forgot to mention, but the XP bonus is capped at +100%. If it would not be capped at all, now that could break balance, but I don't see any issues with it if it is capped on a moderate amount.


The main idea is to let the player grind faster, in case they are stuck at a strong boss, but not to give all the XP in a straight and linear manner. The secondary reason is to reward persistence (and risk-takers) with something, which is sadly, rarely rewarded (most of the time developers only care about the lazy people).


Since in most games the save points are close to bosses (which is logical, right?), the player should reconsider to use it. It is completely the player's responsibility to use it. My game got multiple warnings in very noticeable places about this system, so if the player takes the risk, whatever happens after is on him/her.


Even if a player always saves the game as soon as a save point pops up, the system has it's benefits. Dude saves the game, encounters the boss, boss is too strong for him, player dies. Okay, so the player probably needs to get a few levels, and getting those levels will be easier with a gradually rising XP bonus, than without it.


You might say "why not simply give more XP gain for killing enemies?", but that would just make it another game for the lazy people. I kinda miss games where I don't just need to press on because I can one-shot all bosses the moment I encounter them. I could simply watch a movie if I want, that would be the same thing, except I wouldn't need to press the directional keys to move from point A to point B.


Anyway, this is just my opinion. I am sure that some people would be pissed off if they would die after a long no-save progress, but still, they can only blame themselves, not the game itself. And yes, I like to tease people with things like this.

 

[TheHonorableRyu]

Solid ideas in this topic. Basically: just award XP for completing whatever content or challenges there are in the game besides battles.

I'd also suggest that not every RPG even needs a separate running XP stat for character progression. You can make it so that when players complete a storyline quest or sidequest, or find a secret, a menu opens up and gives them an option to upgrade their character(s)' stats or skill trees. Or you could handle player progression through items/equipment or a materia-like system, and have battles award money and/or ingredients for crafting. Or you could have a bunch of different stats that upgrade in different ways (e.g., a Strength stat that increases by slaying a set number of monsters with a weapon or by completing manual-labor-themed mini-games; or an Herbology stat that raises by learning about new plants in books and harvesting them, enabling you to identify and harvest more plants, as in The Witcher). 

The main idea is to let the player grind faster, in case they are stuck at a strong boss, but not to give all the XP in a straight and linear manner. The secondary reason is to reward persistence (and risk-takers) with something, which is sadly, rarely rewarded (most of the time developers only care about the lazy people)..
[...]
Even if a player always saves the game as soon as a save point pops up, the system has it's benefits. Dude saves the game, encounters the boss, boss is too strong for him, player dies. Okay, so the player probably needs to get a few levels, and getting those levels will be easier with a gradually rising XP bonus, than without it.
You might say "why not simply give more XP gain for killing enemies?", but that would just make it another game for the lazy people.

Why not just design boss battles in which players lose because they need improve their skills or apply a better strategy, not because they didn't grind long enough? : p People who don't like having to grind to progress in the story aren't necessarily "lazy." They may prefer spending their time with a game to be rewarded for improving their skills or strategies rather than completing monotonous busywork (e.g., fighting the same battles over and over again without new areas, enemies, story, or other challenges to explore). 

I think your desire to reward dedicated players is good, but forgoing saving/checkpoints can easily feel more annoying for players than challenging or fun. People don't just save their game progress because they're afraid of dying and need checkpoints to get through, but because things happen outside the game. School, work, and sleep are necessities; parents, significant others, children, friends call, need attention; games crash, app windows are closed by accident, batteries die, power cords get pulled out, wireless connections drop. Losing all your storyline progress, or losing your hard-earned XP boost, simply because life happens and it's time to shut the game off now (or leave it running for hours on end, which wastes electricity, artificially ramps up the game clock, and also risks a shut down depending on the circumstances), sounds more like a hassle than fun. This is why even challenging games like Dark Souls (where you lose your unspent XP upon death) autosave your story/item progress at every turn and give you the chance to recover your lost XP (even if the game is turned off) if you can reach the spot where you died last before dying again.

I think your system could work well if, say, your game were divided up into short manageable stages or sections that can be completed in one sitting, and then at the end of each section the player is given the chance to save safely (save without losing the XP boost), so they aren't punished simply for turning the game off. But even in this case awarding higher XP with something like battle ratings (higher ratings for better battle time, damage dealt vs. damaged earned, number of weaknesses hit, etc.) would focus on player skill and interest more accurately than how often players want or need to save.

 

[JosephSeraph]

Valkyrie Profile rewarded the player with EXP upon completing certain in-dungeon tasks (such as slashing a tree to make it a bridge) and, interestingly enough, this EXP was stored in the EXP Orb which then could be freely distributed in any way you wish.

Which was nice because in the Hard Mode characters all begun at LV.1 (which made the game actually easier, with all the Zoe's Bracelets and etc.)

Valkyrie Profile 2 gave you EXP shards whenever you put one of your warriors to rest. They were gone, but they'd leave behind gems proportional to their stats/equipment, including EXP. It was a very interesting system.

 

[TheHonorableRyu]

IIRC, Valkyrie Profile also rewarded extra EXP crystals for juggling enemies mid-air with your combos. Timing and executing juggles was somewhat sensitive, so it made battles fairly fun and interesting. If your game's battles are "exhausting," then finding other ways to reward XP is good, but you could also probably find ways to make the battles more engaging. 

 

[Scythuz]

Regarding giving items as xp, I personally feel this doesn't work when it's only giving xp to the characters directly as it tends to feel insignificant unless you give them a large amount at once.  If you only give them a large amount at once though you'd have to worry about limiting the items collection and all the balancing issues related to it.

There are 2 ways that I have seen work though:

In the Ys series, some of the later games have enemies drop instantly used items that temporarily increase xp (as well as other stats) on a very short timer, this encouraged faster paced and clever grinding rather than the mindless kind and it gave players an incentive to grind as a risk/reward based strategy.  This primarily happened in battle but I believe some of the ideas here could still be used (in a modified form) within the context of this thread.

Another way is to use stats boosters instead of xp, this works well in quite a few games as it gives players extra incentive to item hunt and if you only apply small increases it means you don't have to worry about balance so much, whilst the player still feels they're getting more powerful.  I've chosen to forego getting xp in my game entirely and instead focus on increasing stats with items, it's simplified things pretty massively so far.

 

[AwesomeCool]

I tend to like xp bonuses from succeeding at talk puzzles (like in Planescape torment) as an alternative to combat. You could even talk your way out of combat without losing xp then.

Of course the xp bonuse has to be significant enough to warrant doing it (else what is the point).

 

[Sol Fury]

IIRC, Valkyrie Profile also rewarded extra EXP crystals for juggling enemies mid-air with your combos. Timing and executing juggles was somewhat sensitive, so it made battles fairly fun and interesting. If your game's battles are "exhausting," then finding other ways to reward XP is good, but you could also probably find ways to make the battles more engaging. 

Bolding: my emphasis. I think that is an important point. Games are meant to be fun, not a chore, so if you are finding your battles to be dull, then you probably may want to think about changing things up - it could be as much as slashing everyone's DEF stats to make battles last for less time.

Awarding EXP outside of battle is a great idea though, especially if the whole focus of your game is not on battles. A great argument I heard was in favour of integrating your games themes into the mechanics - so if you are mainly focused on exploring the world, EXP for finding new places or completing a particularly difficult journey would be a great fit for your game. Or if you are trying to piece together a mystery, awards for solving clues and finding new leads also makes sense.

First and foremost, though, no element of the experience should really feel like a chore.

 

[Kalin]

If you want to reward exploration, how about giving a little bit of XP whenever the player triggers an event (chest, NPC dialog) for the first time? Achievements are another great way to earn XP. These ideas have the benefit of providing a fixed amount of XP, unlike random or repeatable battles.

Do you even need XP in the first place? My favorite mechanic is skills that improve from being used, which can include non-combat skills like crafting and healing. Instead of rushing off to fight the monsters that destroyed the town, what if your char spent the game rebuilding it?

 

[Valkyriet]

There is a way you can make earning experience via side-quests fun too. The concept is a bit similar to building up your character along the way with certain main attributes like Wit, Kindness, Reliability (percentage of successful quests), Approachability (percentage of quests received), and so on. Side-quests can have varying requirements, depending on which the quest-giver can choose whether he/she wants to trust the adventuring party.

This would also incorporate a quest-based point system which contributes to these attributes. Point can be received when:

1. You successfully receive a quest.

2. Whether or not you charge money for the quest (for example, if a poor person asks for some bread and cheese and you force a reward from him for it). You could have a karma system for this. Converting karma to experience points can also be an option.

3. You complete a quest with least possible collateral damage (if applicable).

 

[Sol Fury]

3. You complete a quest with least possible collateral damage (if applicable).

I like this idea a whole lot. I'll store it away in case I ever get to designing a quest where collateral damage would make sense (and equally, could be avoided - I think a building sized dragon would knock down whatever it wants without your intervention)