Game "Drafts"

[TMS]

Making a game is shaping up to be the most complicated and challenging project I've ever taken on. For the most part this is because on my own I don't have the skills to achieve what I'd like to. If I don't want a game I make to suck, I'm going to need help with things like the creation of graphics and music that (1) don't seem mismatched or out of place and (2) aren't the generic stuff used in a thousand other games. I think the easiest way (and maybe the only way) to find these resources is to have them created specifically for my games.

The problem becomes getting people interested enough in the game to want to help out. What are your opinions on creating a "rough draft" of a game using whatever resources are available, then seeing if that can get anyone interested in providing resources or helping to expand the basic game? Has anyone tried that? Is it a good idea or just a waste of time?

 

[Ms Littlefish]

I think place holders are perfectly acceptable. The more example you can provide during a recruitment, the better. When potential team members can see more of your game, it is a lot easier for them to actually envision what they could make.

It's not always possible but some of the most helpful sources of inspiration for me is seeing what is actually there and happening during the portion of the game someone may be requesting/commissioning me to write music for.

 

[Matseb2611]

I'd personally recommend to actually pay the people who do resources for you. People who offer their services for free are a lot more likely to abandon the project partway through due to lack of inspiration and incentive, or might simply put it on hold in favour of other things in their lives. Of course people you pay can disappear unexpectedly too, but there's less reason for them to do so.

But yes, getting a section of your game up to a high standard and then showcasing it can indeed help in getting some attention to it. Though I think you're more likely to get people interested if you already have past works that are up to a good standard, and most of all for people to know that you're serious about your project and reliable, that you're willing to complete it. Most of the people who playtest and support my projects these days have started doing so pretty much after my 3rd/4th project.

 

[Adellie]

If i were to join a team, I'd definitely value a draft. What that says to me is that the project leader actually does have an end mapped out, and the project is likely to be finished and shared at some point. It also tells me that the project leader has invested his own time to creating his game; he's not some dude that only demands things from others.

    "I've got ideas but nothing concrete right now, wanna make a game together?," is perfectly fine among friends and experienced developers, but asking for help like that to strangers on a forum.. i'm not so sure that's effective.

Downside: If your demo game seems boring, it WILL steer people away... it'll be even less attractive than a project that just SOUNDS interesting.

    Also, i don't know how many people are actually searching for a team to join.

If it were me, i would first complete a written script, then create a web/mindmap of exactly how I want the game systems/mechanics to work, hand-draw your maps and concepts, and select a couple of free musics that give the atmosphere you want. None of this is set in stone; however it makes a nice proposal package for anyone that's interested. They can make it happen or correct some design flaws in what you envisioned at first.

    I would not create a demo game. Rpgmaker is cumbersome, sorry, and just a demo is gonna take you forever... (a little tweak here and a few clicks there is actually lot of time gone) plus you probably don't have the scripts all made to show what you want. By not creating a demo game, I wouldn't waste too much time and the demo won't risk feeling totally lame.

Adding onto what Matseb said about payment: In my eyes, leaders that do pay (assuming you don't know this person) seem more likely to respect the time you are putting into your work.

....not saying payment is necessary though. Sometimes your own heart or talent or experience will reel people in. (other team members too!) I'd probably draw a decent amount for free (or try at least, hah!) if there's a good programmer on the team.

--

sorry for the long post.

tldr; i'd make a draft but not a game demo; show off your dedication and what usable skills you do have

 

[TMS]

Thanks for the responses.

I'd personally recommend to actually pay the people who do resources for you. People who offer their services for free are a lot more likely to abandon the project partway through due to lack of inspiration and incentive, or might simply put it on hold in favour of other things in their lives. Of course people you pay can disappear unexpectedly too, but there's less reason for them to do so.

That's very true, but my income is spotty to non-existent. For the moment, I'm way too poor to afford paying commissions. That's part of the reason I'm hoping to draw people in with a game draft.

But yes, getting a section of your game up to a high standard and then showcasing it can indeed help in getting some attention to it. Though I think you're more likely to get people interested if you already have past works that are up to a good standard, and most of all for people to know that you're serious about your project and reliable, that you're willing to complete it. Most of the people who playtest and support my projects these days have started doing so pretty much after my 3rd/4th project.

Well, that's kind of like how it's hard to get a first job because you don't have any experience. Unless you're just endorsing the draft idea.

Has anyone tried Adellie's method of a game proposal? Can anyone recommend it?

 

[Andar]

I think you should check the rules on the forums for early project feedback and for project recruitment. Those rules have been written for posts similiar to your case, and they should give you some input.


Additionally:


To get people to help you for free, you basically need three things:


1) Something to get their interest


2) Something to proof that YOU won't abandon the project


3) Time to wait until someone interested has completed their own projects and have free time to join yours


1 can be anything at all - a good and new story, proof of the work you already did (if it's good), whatever.


2 needs to show your work, and it should be the result of a lot of work - recruitment topics like "I want to start game making next week, I need help but haven't done any work yet" will not get you the help you want (only perhaps other newbies who dream of a short way to fame, but not from people who know what kind of work game developing is).


How you proof that you can stick to something is your decision, but if you want good help you need to proof to them that the game will be completed and their work not wasted.


3 you cannot change - good help is always in high demand and you can't expect to get a dozen good helpers the week after your post. However, this can also be a way to proof 2 - simply continue working and update your recruitment post biweekly or monthly to show that the work progresses even without help. That will be a plus to any recruitment.

 

[Millefeuille]

I want to add to what Andar said about number two. These days, there is virtually no guarantee that someone can finish a project without some kind of established track record. You can even see supposed "greats" like Tim Schafer struggling to deliver on his studio's projects, so it's not so much proof you need as a solid foundation.

Rapid prototyping is really essential in  any kind of creative industry and saves tremendous amounts of time and money. Film, illustration, game development, prototypes are an everyday aspect of these industries and prove your concept works. Fortunately RPG Maker has an entire suite of placeholder graphics for you to sell a concept upon, and after you have a tangible demonstration you can begin scouting volunteers or freelancers. If you want to have a good roster of interested individuals, you need to make sure that your prototype very clearly establishes some kind of mood for your game and communicates concisely what it is about.

In addition to some kind of early prototype, a written concept of one or two pages is your second tool and chance to get prospective team members interested. You don't just want to hire people who will create material for you, it's more important to find people who feel moved by what you want to do. It essentially gives you team morale that maintains itself and ensures better synergy, because the emotional investment is already there.

Devil's Advocate time:

Maybe you don't need a team. Maybe you can run with this by yourself. Think about what makes the heart of your concept (what is important and non-negotiable, as opposed to superficial) and what's practical. Can you afford the extra time that goes into team management? It's stressful and a job in itself. Most people aren't good managers off the bat, and when you're struggling to just finish a game by yourself, it starts to slow down your momentum a lot. Free hands can come with a certain amount of drama and unpredictability. They're the kind of people that are nice to have, but not good to rely on. When push comes to shove, they'll only stick around as long as your concept and ideas strongly resonate with them.

You can also consider the alternative of cutting down on ambitions and creating lists of what you want to accomplish and circling the most important things. Try to have a backup plan where it's just you alone working on things that aren't overwhelming for your free time and experience level. Every piece of art begins with an idealized image, but no artist will ever tell you that their work came out like they envisioned. There's never enough time, money, or resources; so cutting back and lowering expectations isn't necessarily quitting or admitting defeat, it's restructuring in the face of life's unexpected happenings.

Whatever you choose, have something on the back burner. Good luck!!

 

[mlogan]

I agree with the others. You can definitely create a good game with placeholder resources. It's even easier with the wonderful treasure trove of free resources found on this site. Sure, they may not be completely unique to your game, but you can compile some great tilesets from the things you find here.

But yes, people will be more willing to help you if you have something to show. We all have great lofty ideas. But people will respond more to seeing that you will work hard to make the idea really happen.

Try not to get discouraged. It's a long process but you will get there and you never know how you may surprise yourself.

 

[Tsukihime]

Prototypes are often used for the purposes of demonstration. When someone's pitching an idea, being able to see something tangible is more useful than a description of what it does.


This is why there is a lot of effort put into developingg rapid-prototyping tools and frameworks because the faster you can turn your idea into reality that others can experience, the higher your chances of winning them over.

 

[TMS]

However, this can also be a way to proof 2 - simply continue working and update your recruitment post biweekly or monthly to show that the work progresses even without help. That will be a plus to any recruitment.

I like this idea. That way I can both get the idea out there for people to consider and make some progress on it in the meantime.

The number of boards dedicated to projects in various states of development is a little confusing. It's hard to know for sure when an in-progress game is eligible for a topic in Early Project Feedback and when it "graduates" from Early Project Feedback to Project Development. The line between a "personal project" and the type of project that can have a recruitment thread also might not always be clear.

Am I allowed to let people know I'm looking for help in Projects boards besides Project Recruitment?