Game & Map Screenshots 4

[Illaya]

This is my first serious map, and I'm looking for ways to improve it. If anyone can do that, then it'll be greatly appreciated. 





Edit: The blue circle in Part 1 marks the area that I'm having issues with. Is there anything I can do that will set it right?

 

[Kes]

There is a serious problem with the way the front cliff meets the ground.  If you give me a few minutes, I'll try and knock up a quick example to show what I mean.

As for the blue circle area - your front tree will automatically over-write the bottom tile of the back tree.  Put in the back tree, then put in all the front tree except the tile which overlaps.  Place an event on that tile which shows the graphic from that bit of the tree.  If you scroll down to the bottom of all the characters available to you for an event graphic, you will see your tile sets at the bottom.  Remember to check the 'Direction Fix' box on the event.

 

[Illaya]

Please give me those examples.

 

[Kes]

The problem is difficult to explain in words.  The lower cliff on the left meets the higher cliff in a straight line - but it is 4 tiles high and the higher cliff is 8 tiles high, so it simply can't do that.  The lower cliff in the middle starts at the same height as the cliff to the left, comes forward 3 tiles and then is only 2 tiles high instead of 4 tiles high.  The higher cliff meets the ground in a straight line with the lower cliffs.  It can't do that.  so here is a very quick mock-up of what I think you were trying to do.

EDIT

Having real problems putting a pic in this post.  Only a direct link seems to work.

Nope, now that's not working either.  Will have to try and sort this out.

 

[Illaya]

What can I do to eliminate that problem?

 

[Illaya]

Does this look better?

 

[Kes]

EDIT AGAIN

Finally got the link to work using a different browser.  Of course, as soon as I post it, I see an error I made - those first stairs at the bottom should be longer, but anyway, this gives a bit of an indication of what I was talking about.  (error now corrected)



The main thing to notice is that the line where the cliffs meet the ground is not straight, because you are trying to create the impression of cliffs of different heights jutting out from one another.

 

[Ulrika]

@Illaya: holy cow, don't make me walk up that many steps. Think of your characters - we're only human!

 

[Ralph]

It's okay, that's what potions are for! ヽ(*・ω・)ﾉ♪

 

[Ulrika]

Sure, if it makes me speed up, then I'll take it.

 

[mlogan]

Illaya, mapping cliffs is very tricky.  It takes a lot of shift-clicking to get it right.  One place I see is that on the left side, the one cliff with all the purple flowers is supposed to be higher than the flat area beside it, yet the grass flows from one to another.  Plus it's odd how when you get to the top of that main staircase you are on the same level as the grassy area to the left.  It's little thing like that, the depth/height relationships that you really have to think about when mapping cliffs.  Also, that small staircase on the lower right, it's very tall, but only one tile deep compared to the cliff top.  Those would be incredibly steep stairs.  If it were me, I would take them further back.

 

[Engr. Adiktuzmiko]

why does those grassy stairs really look weird??? 

 

[mlogan]

The stairs on the bottom right look odd to me because of the height/depth ratio.  Let's say that 1 tile was a distance of 5 feet. That means that that staircase rises by 25 feet but is only 5 feet deep.  That's pretty much a ladder, not a stair case.

 

[Ylva]

Steep stairs are okay if there's something reeeeeeally good in a chest on top.  I don't think it would though, those symmetrical super tall cliffs and endless steps say "villain trap" to me.

 

[djDarkX]

Really?  Cuz to me they say "Dead end...HAHAHAHAHA!"

 

[Ylva]

Yeah, that's kind of what I meant.  I don't want a villain to kill me.


Oh, I found a present behind one of those rocks!  You guys can have it.

 

[Illaya]

I made a brand new map. I like the look of this one better than the first one, but I could be wrong. I hope I got the cliffs right this time. 

 

[mlogan]

Illaya, I took your first map and tweeked it a bit.  Please don't get discouraged, cliffs are so tricky and fiddly.  It takes a lot shift-click mapping and super attention to detail, because the slightest thing can mess up the shift click with autotiles.

So here are my thoughts/things I changed:

- The stairs still bothered me, because if you were out walking in the mountains and came across stairs, they likely wouldn't protrude from the mountain but be carved into them.  (Circled in red.)   So I took the stairs and recessed them a bit.  This will also help with the height/depth proportion. 

- Also, there were a couple of places (circled in yellow) that were tiled funny, I smoothed that out.  Another thing that I think helps when mapping different height cliffs is to bring them forward or push them back.  In doing that, you need to be mindful of shadows.  Cliffs that stick out further or are taller than cliffs next to them are going to cast shadows. 

- Last, notice on my map I used shift-click to make the grass look like it is going behind the taller cliff.  (Circled in red on my map.) Using shift-click for affects like this can really help add dimension.

- One thing I was curious about, is there a reason there are red roses at the top and bottom of the stairs?  If there is a reason explained in your game, that's great, but if not it just looks really odd.





Edited to add:  I didn't put as much filler stuff in simply because I have other things I need to be doing.  If I were using this map I would definitely add more filler, but definitely pay attention as you do because it can easily mess up any autotiles you've used shift-click on.

 

[Illaya]

I see your point about the tiles and the stairs. I'll keep that in mind next time. The roses are placed like that for a reason, though I may place them in some other place.

Edit: I wanted to ask whether the placing of the cliffs was better now?

 

[mlogan]

I have to apologize, I didn't really do much more than glance at your second map, which I think looks pretty good.  The only things I would change would maybe be the stairs, and then go back and use the shadow pen to add shadows to those cliffs.  Shadows can go a long way to help with the dimension. 

As far as the roses, if it's part of the story, leave it.  I wasn't sure, and if I were playing you game and came across them lined up like that and nowhere else, I would think I would need to interact with them.  So if that's the case, then great!

edited:  And just so you know, I speak from my own experiences mapping cliffs.  This is a picture of a town for a game that got abandoned but I plan on picking it up again one day.  And even looking at it now, there are still so many things that could be done better.  It's all about practice.