Game's age ratings

[Otto]

Howdi,
I hope I'm in the right section for this kind of topic...

So, it all started yesterday, when a mod deleted one of my posts, because one of the jokes contained in the story (it was a topic containing funny stories) was considered too extreme for a forum that must remain under the pg13 rating.
I'm not going to talk about this because I'm not mad at the mod or anything, and I can understand why it's being done, but this opened a few questions concerning age restriction for our projects. Not only what's going to happen when a videogame rated over that age treshold is published on these forums, but also what kind of ratings are we to consider: for example where I'm from, in europe, we have PEGI ratings, but there's also the ESRB ratings and I'm pretty sure other countries have their own...

I'm not talking about my game, but generally speaking, since I think not everyone is going to make a hello-kitti-everybody-is-happy videogame... let's say I'm going to publish a GTA clone project, which is rated 18+ with PEGI or M(17+) with ESRB... would it be deleted too?

Also, which country's ratings are we to take into consideration?

Thanks for any clarification

 

[Kes]

It is possible to post games which are 18+ here, but they must be clearly identified as such, together with an indication of the the type of content which gives that rating so that people are well informed before they download it.

As for which country - most people go with the ESRB as that is the most widely used internationally.

 

[zacheatscrackers]

Kes summed it up pretty well, but I figured I'd add my piece regardless:

I believe at least part of it has to do with the relatively large portion of younger members amongst this forum's member-base; if I recall correctly, it also stems from a rather sensitive situation that occurred between an adult member and a younger member on here a long time ago. I read up on it a while ago, but can't really find the link to the topic (if anyone knows at all what I'm talking about, feel free to link it). As Kes said, mature content in games on here in itself isn't forbidden, per se, but rather screenshots explicitly portraying it, like a character saying the f-word (you know which one that is, I'm sure) uncensored or a racial slur. I carelessly forgot that particular part and ended up getting a link to a video portraying a rather violently profane scene between two characters in my game taken down. Past is past but I still feel rather silly for accidentally breaking that rule, haha.

So if you're producing an M-rated product, just be sure to post pictures/videos that adhere to the rules properly, and you're gold. And be sure to use the mature themes you're adding to your product to its advantage; allow it to enhance what you're making, not make it stick out like a sore thumb

 

[Wavelength]

When a creator is assigning his own game an ESRB (or PEGI) Rating, it's not only reductive but pretty arbitrary as well. The ESRB has a pretty solid set of rules about what content should be M, what should be T, etc., but each creator is going to have somewhat different ideas.

In the past, when I've created game threads, I've added a line at the end that clarified whether there was any objectional content, such as "Please be aware that Hell's Dining Room contains strong language including the B-word, mild sexual references, and more Bobby Flay than anyone would want to see in a lifetime.", or simply "How Badly contains no objectionable content and is appropriate for all ages."

That was easy to do as a hobbyist, but if I'm actually trying to promote and sell my game, I don't think I'd want to be that direct about it. So how to get the point across in a subtle manner?

I think it's worth taking a page from the book of Disney's designers: their Snow White ride is (intentionally) somewhat scary, but because it's a Snow White ride in a cute fairytale land, it ended up drawing a lot of families with young kids, who were scared out of their wits and had a bad time. They ended up having to put a warning sign at the front of the queue saying that the ride contains scary elements and might not be appropriate for young children, which is emphatically not the way you want to do it! So later on, when they designed the same attraction for Disneyland Paris, they put a lot of scary elements in the queue - dark "forests", ominous music and sounds, the appearance of villains. Kids who weren't ready for this kind of attraction would be scared off by the queue and their families could exit it at any point before they got on the ride; anyone who made it through the queue was clearly ready for the mildly spooky ride. Self-selection without a single written word to break immersion/excitement.

Taking this back to video games, you can accomplish the same kind of self-selection by showing a little of the potentially-objectionable content in your trailers and screenshots. You don't need to (and shouldn't) show everything, but give a reasonable sampling. If there's blood and gore, make sure that's visible in the promotional material. If there are jumpscares, you probably don't want to show those (they're not effective without setup), but show the kind of creepy visual and audio cues that horror movie trailers often use. If there are a lot of sexual jokes/innuendos in your game, like in Disgaea, show one in a screenshot. It's a responsible thing to do and it will help your game find the right audience.

 

[mlogan]

Actually, project forums' rules state that we will not accept 18+ games, and I know that Archeia denied one recently.

This is just a part of why game topics go into moderation - so that we can be sure that topics that are not allowed to be posted won't slip through.

You have to keep in mind that these are the official forums of Degica, which promotes products and the forums themselves, for those 13+. Being essentially a business, we have to keep in mind what action might be taken by parents of minors if they are exposed to adult material here.

@zacheatscrackers The thread you are thinking of is this one, and no, it really has nothing to do with this policy, as the 13+ friendly policy was in place long before this incident.

 

[bgillisp]

Also remember you don't need to go to the other extreme and make your game G rating either. I ended up going for PG-13 with mine. Originally due to some topics discussed I was in a grey area between PG-13 and R, but I decided to drop those topics and stick with the PG-13 as they ended up just being there to be there and served no purpose in the game itself.

Though I haven't honestly rated the game yet, so I might have even ended up with PG instead by the time I was done (though I do have mild swearing, but all swear words are the game worlds made up words). I know some other moderators played my game before I was one and no one said anything about the content either way. Still, the point is, you don't need blood and gore out the wazoo to make a good game, or nude images to make a good game (though judging by what is selling on steam right now, that might be disputable). Just be sure what you add to the game actually adds to the game, and isn't there just to be there.

 

[mlogan]

@bgillisp Good and sellable aren’t necessarily the same thing.

 

[bgillisp]

True. Which is why I joked I was going to make a parody video where my characters were told they had to show more skin to help sell the game, and then show their reactions to it.

 

[Otto]

Thanks for all the replies, I can see it's a delicate topic as even some mods don't necessarely agree with each other on the subject.
As for me, my project falls somewhere between the PEGI 13 and 16... pretty snowflakes frendly

It's really a re-like game where maybe one or two character throw one or two F-Bombs along the way, 'tho I could possibily edit the dialogues to remove swearing completely, even 'tho I'm not a big fan of censorship, I ain't a fan of curising either.

I was curious, like I said, the idea popped up in my head yesterday after the mod allerted me of this thing.

 

[Lady-J]

As for which country - most people go with the ESRB as that is the most widely used internationally.

I dont know, esrb is kinda weird. For one thing i feel like ESRB has a bias toward western games and is willing to let them get away with a lot more than games with more anime style visuals. Should we take that into account? Granted this might just be people in different parts of the company rating things differently.

 

[Kes]

@Lady-J I cannot claim to be an expert in ESRB, so I don't think I am competent to give an answer to your question.

 

[Wavelength]

I dont know, esrb is kinda weird. For one thing i feel like ESRB has a bias toward western games and is willing to let them get away with a lot more than games with more anime style visuals. Should we take that into account? Granted this might just be people in different parts of the company rating things differently.

I don't quite agree. For example, look at some of the darker 'Tales of' games, like Symphonia and Berseria, for which are (very reasonably) rated Teen. These would also be rated Teen if they were done in very cartoony western-style graphics, but if done in the kind of more-realistic style that you see more often in Western games, it would certainly be rated Mature.

I think that if anything, there's a bias toward western values, and specifically American (not European) values, where (compared to the average worldwide view of people in developed/somewhat developed nations):

• Violence is probably under-counted toward their ratings of age-appropriateness
• Sedition is also under-counted compared to how many Eastern-hemisphere countries view it (though I've got to say I totally agree with the ESRB here)
• Mature themes and profanity are fairly counted
• Drug use (aside from tobacco and alcohol) and gore are over-counted
• Nudity and consensual sex are grossly over-counted and, even when presented modestly, are almost guaranteed to score an M rating or higher

That's my view though and I could be wrong - I'd be very interested to hear examples where you think games with an eastern/anime style would have been rated lower (appropriate for younger audiences) if presented in a western style with the same content and a similar amount of graphical detail!

 

[Lady-J]

@Wavelength well i mean the witch can have frontal nudity but if you try that in an anime styled game or anything even close its not allowed to be released. Heck God of War had sex as a weird minigame. (Its kinda hilarious actually)