RMMV Gladatora V.1.9.6 Alpha 4-22-20

Jeremiah Eastman

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Omg:smile: I'll go ahead and fix it and re update real quick but it will be ninjad in. I can't believe I overlooked that I was so worried about the other bug.

Edit:

It's fixed in the download if you want, although you could just open it up in your editor and make the adjustment to if you wanted, If so your character is on sheet 111, I'm great at naming these files.:smile:
 
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Poryg

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Thank you very much :) I'm not worried about the wasps, so it's fine for me :)
And I don't want to open your game in the rpg maker, because I don't want to spend time rummaging through mechanics I would spend if I did :)

Another bug I encountered, but it's a minor bug. Well, two.
Screenshot_84.png
Another one is, the Return home command returns me home twice for some reason since it was moved to the Special.
 

Jeremiah Eastman

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Hmm return home looked wrong to me earlier when I was searching through the code for the rep drain bug. I should have checked it out, I need to re-tune that event. And you aren't supposed to walk on those hay roofs.:smile:

Edit:
Those bugs are also fixed now on the download.
 
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Poryg

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Ok, thanks :D Yesterday night I got another idea how to break your game, so today I did my best to do it. I went back to my v.1.10 save, since that one is the most advanced one I have. But the version is irrelevant here, I could transfer the save into a new version and do it even there (which is probably what I will be doing from now on, as long as I don't have compatibility issues)

And guess what, I apologize in advance, but I broke your game yet again. This time I exploited the YEP_Enemylevels.js plugin.
If I leave at least four party members underleveled, I'm unbeatable in the arena.
The reason is that the game places the enemies based on your party member levels, which means if I have weak people in my party, I'll fight weaker foes and my lv 9 squad can defeat them easily. I was able to win a battle royale without losing a single life in the end, because I received 2-90 damage per hit.

Speaking of battle royale, the AI has shown its' cleverness again... Because while those eight gladiators can attack each other, that is fine, since it is supposed to be that way. But they are even attacking themselves, trying to commit suicide... Which is funny, I have to admit, but seriously weird. Unless you want to turn that into a feature, gladiators being so disgusted with their lives/scared that they commit suicide...
 

Jeremiah Eastman

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Hey there bud, just got up, was a long night of programming.:smile: Hmm, I had originally set the enemies to the battle group level, with that I had hoped that it would make it easier to train lower leveled recruits but I didn't think about that exploit opening up. I can set the enemies to run off of the average of all party members, but due to new recruits starting at level 1 once you have too many that could become an issue, maybe not so much when you only have a like 6 recruits but if you have say 30 or more in your army it would take a long time to raise the average level and recruiting would end up lowering the difficulty. Maybe I could do something along the lines of adjusting the exp rates some where if you do exploit like you have the exp would be so low it wouldn't be worth exploiting.

The battle royal thing, that is kinda funny and hopefully not too common but atm I am not sure how to stop that from happening being as I place a basic attack anyone tag state on the enemies to achieve the effect. I'll look into it though, maybe there's a plugin out there that addresses those tags. Although I can also see them having enough and ending it themselves, until I find a fix I'll add a little lore about the crazy suicidal opponents.:smile:
 

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Average of all party members doesn't solve the problem, in fact it stays the same - level up only the top 4 and you don't need to worry -.
Maybe treat the areas differently. Let the outside be treated based on the initial war group and the arena based on higher levels of whole party.

Removal of attacking on self is easy with battle ai :)
 

Jeremiah Eastman

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Bah, I didn't even think to try the battle AI I have been trying to change the state for the most part thanks for pointing that out.:smile:

Oh man I just wrote out a whole lot about why I don't think that changing the enemy level parameters would make a difference due to the plugin parameters and got very into detail about it all. Right before I hit post reply something dawned on me. I looked back at the plugin settings, I had been thinking it would work off the average level of either battle or party members, but that's only for the normal settings. The highest goes off of your highest not a high average, but I bet you knew that.:smile: So yeah I will make those adjustments, that is how it should have been to start but I misunderstood the settings there. I'm excited about that fix I was expecting any real fix for this to be pretty difficult.
 

Poryg

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I use this plugin a lot too, although my parties are usually the same level, so the settings are usually irrelevant for me. However, I was always aware of the javascript lunatic mode that can throw the default settings away completely :)
Well, time for me to get some sleep. Have a good one :)
 

Jeremiah Eastman

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Have a good night bud, thanks for all your great advice today.:smile:
 

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If I may offer a suggestion? The problem @Poryg found is the problem all level scaling algorithms have. If you make it based on the average level of the party, the player can cheat by putting low level party members in (this can be done in Final Fantasy 8 to make the bosses easier to a degree). If you make it based on the lowest level of the party member, all they need is a level 1 party member to cheat it. But, if you make it based on the highest level of the party member, then what is a party that happens to be level 99, level 1, level 1, level 1 supposed to do to have a chance (which could happen if you get unlucky with KO's, as KO'd characters get no EXP in most games)? They have no recourse then due to the level scaling, and your game is ripped for being too hard.

For this reason I'd consider maybe dropping all level scaling and putting everything at a fixed level. Then the player cannot game it or run into an insurmountable barrier due to the scaling.
 

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@bgillisp This is a good suggestion, but has one drawback... The game is a sandbox.
In a sandbox game making static and fixed enemies is really tricky, because the last enemy is where the sandbox ends, while scaling can still push it further and further in an unlimited potential, if you balance it well. Which is why I suggested only separating the areas outside of the arena (where it would be based on the current party and you could train) and inside the arena (where it would be based on the whole group, preferably the higher level guys. Because as it is, there are like 20 party members I have found so far, which means you can build like 5 parties in total and you can shift them pretty much as you like in battles, which decreases underleveling issues too, because you can use three guys as bouncers for the underleveled one.
Hmm, perhaps it wouldn't be a bad idea to unify the actor levels. This would not only shorten the necessary time for leveling, but would also eliminate any underleveling and overleveling issues. On the other hand though, this collides with weapon proficiencies...
 

bgillisp

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Sandbox games don't need level scaling. They didn't use it way back in the past and it worked well. In fact, I think using level scaling hurts sandbox games more than it helps. I was bored in Skyrim because of the level scaling that game used, and it resulted in me not finishing that game as a result.

However, there is a way to do a compromise. I think Yanfly's Enemy Level scripts/plug-ins lets you specify a minimum and a maximum level for the enemy (so for instance, you could say this enemy should be between levels 18 and 24). If that is used well, then you could still make it work.

Edit: You also can kinda get around the problem with highest level by removing the penalty for KO'd party members and reviving all KO'd party members with 1 HP after every battle. That way they still get the EXP for having participated in the battle, and won't end up hopelessly behind.
 

Poryg

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I have seen games where level scaling proved to be good, but that was because they were well balanced (for example Star traders RPG is a sandbox game that uses level scaling, but it's well balanced and the scaling doesn't hurt the game at all. Another example is Space rangers, where the ships' power and the rewards you gain from quests, etc. are derived from your own ship.). But I see your point.
 

Jeremiah Eastman

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You guys gave me a lot to think about. Personally I prefer scaling, I dislike when areas in games become completely obsolete. The game that has been the most influential to my project is the Disgaea series, for it's mechanics not it's craziness. But in those games you can have, I believe, up to 50 recruits. It has a 9999 level limit but you can reset them to level 1 keeping a portion of their stats so they can keep growing stronger and stronger.

I love having the huge army of characters to work on which adds a ton of replay to the Disgaea series. What I was hoping for was that, exploits are ok for the lower leveled characters, but you can't exploit upper level exp. What I mean is say you have 3 level 100's in your group and 1 level 1. You can use the game mechanics to protect the level 1 and he would get a huge exp boost after the battle, if he survives, to help catch up in levels. But I like how in the Disgaea series if your lower level actor died in the battle they missed out on the exp so it's not an automatic gain, they have to be kept alive. I do have some static level enemies and plan on adding more so there will be static challenges as well but I think for the way I want the game to play out it will require, for at least the arena boards, to be scale-able.

I also want you to be able to say have different battle groups like Poryg has been doing where you have your upper level guys, but you can have lower level actors group together as well and get a good battle in the arena on one match then use your strongest group the next battle and still have a good fight. To change all of that to a static system would really hurt the replay value and the ability to use different group makeups.

I do like the idea of having a max and minimum level for some of the fight types, I will probably implement some of that but at the same time I kinda wonder how much it will matter. Poryg's exploit of the scaling happened with characters all under level 10 for the most part, which is a small level spread to still be able to exploit so it seems like the min. max would have to be a very short range like levels 1-5, 5-10, 11-15, and so on. With my game having 300 levels this would take a massive amount of enemies to have to scale to each grouping level of each fight category.

Anyways just some of my thoughts, I really appreciate all the feedback and will take it all into consideration, ultimately I want to do whats best for the game so that may take precedence over some aspects I may personally like.

Edit:
I don't think I know anyone who has ever beaten Skyrim.:smile:
 

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I wouldn't worry about that exploit yet. The game is still on its' alpha phase and since the battle system can change again and again, I would leave it be for now. I would say, focus on the future for now and let's deal with it later :) When more people present their opinions about it. Because as much as I hate to say it, it's unfair to make you make a change so big as a whole battle system impact based on feedback of only two people. So don't worry about it for now and let's return to it later :)
 

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Seconded. I'd focus on making the rest of the game, and just keep a note that this can be exploited. And who knows, maybe you will even decide to leave it in as a trick for clever players to find? After all, remember even an AAA game (Final Fantasy 8) had that mistake in it.
 

Jeremiah Eastman

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Sounds good to me:smile: I've made the adjustments to the way the scaling is done and will test it out to see how it goes, but I'll hold off on setting anything in stone. And thank you both for taking the time to help me out here, your advice is invaluable.

Poryg, a quick question for you if I may. Since you have been working with the special training, regen specifically, What would you think is a good cost per level for just one actor training once in the stat? It's currently at 40 DP which is pretty high but that was due to training the group. I'm thinking maybe 20 DP per due to its usefulness, but wanted to get your thoughts.
 

Poryg

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20 DP will be good when there will be ways to gain more DP. Right now 20 DP for one is too much, 10 DP would be more acceptable. Because in order for it to take some reasonable effect, you really need at least 10% regen. 5% are good enough for on map regeneration, 10% are good enough for surviving the battle outside of the arena, as long as no hell happens. 15% ensure full hp outside the arena for the character as long as the damage is spread reasonably.
 

Jeremiah Eastman

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Your reasoning makes sense, there probably wont be any DP mining for a bit so I'll set it 10 and do some testing. I'm liking the way the special training rework is going. It's going to work and look much nicer when it's done. Thanks for the info there bud.
 

Poryg

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You're welcome :) Just remember, I am giving feedback from hard difficulty. On lower difficulties the levels are surely lower :) When next version comes out, I will probably test the medium difficulty too to check the balance there.
 

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