God in games

[C-C-C-Cashmere (old)]

Hi guys,

I'm wondering what you guys feel about using God in games. I'm talking about the Big Boss of the universe in monotheistic religions. The concept of God that I'm using is that of an Almighty Creator who talks to someone who is dead, and explains to them through a series of puzzles why they died and why it is important that they understand. I understand that the concept of God or even his existence is debatable, but since this is a work of fiction I'm taking creative liberties in a field that's not often explored, except perhaps jovially like in Bruce Almighty where God is Morgan Freeman or something.

I'll give you a sense of where I stand. I'm a devout Christian, but not in the sense of believing God as a religion, but more of spirituality as a lifestyle centered around love for others. I know a lot of people have polarizing opinions when it comes to God, but I really want to make a game that's important and doesn't trivialize the subject. At the same time as making the character God compliant and fairly non-offending to Muslims or Hindus or Shintoists or Sikhs or even atheists, I also don't have that much experience with the character of other definitions of God, so I'd stick true to the Christian God.

I'm just wondering what are people's opinions about using God in games? To theists, if I had a speaking role for God, would you consider that blasphemous or lacking reverence? Because even though I have reverence to God and I know that in my heart, I still don't want to give people the wrong impression. I know that a lot of atheists mock the concept of God, and I can't control what they say or do, but I would rather like to invite discussion with my game rather than cause an uproar. It'd be nice if a game considered religion in a really unpretentious way and caused people to have rational discussions about their interpretations, that will lead us to come to the truth.
 

That is, if you believe truth exists. I do.

So let me know what you think. I'm expecting this topic to get a couple of impassioned replies, but please don't turn this into a flame war of any sort. Try not to hate each other, and love each other despite what you believe.

 

[That Bread]

I would say that the use of god is truly up to how the individual feels. As long as you include it somewhere in the games description I think it would be fine, and I am sure your use of god will not be offensive to others.

How do I feel? I don't care if god is in a game and it talks to me or if I have to fight god. It's fantasy and it should not matter.

 

[AoDLegacy]

I have no problems with the usage of God I guess. I'm religious (Christian), the ideas of deities at all in games doesn't bother me. Usually. The only times it ever bothers me when a game concerns religion is if it takes the literal God killing stance, or you kill a deity with a disturbing number of qualities reminiscent of the Christian/Judaism/Muslim  god. That bothers me, but that's just me. I understand people may not care, but again just how I take it. It's more to do with the fact I feel it's extremely disrespectful of what other people believe and hold value to have God killed in a game, it just doesn't seem right to do at all.

I'll say again though with what you're doing it wouldn't bother me in the slightest, cause it seems to me like you use him as a guide or something like that.

 

[That Bread]

@AoDLegacy you brought up some good points on stuff you shouldn't do. You should not try to tick off a religion... sure you could try to do it discreetly, but that's going into dangerous territory.

 

[Ms Littlefish]

It will often be up to the beholder of the game. You can be as tasteful and as culturally sensitive as you want but it's not possible to please everyone. There are people who like to argue. People who mock each other have a desire to do those things. The quiet and sensible majority will carry on with their lives.  I am perfectly comfortable with medias that use both real life religions and fictional religions as well.

 

[C-C-C-Cashmere (old)]

Thanks for your words, guys. My ambition is to make the first good Christian game. I know that's an egotistical statement, but I believe people haven't really tapped into gaming's ability to instigate religious discussion. And the people that tend to make really good movies and games regarding religion are those that paint it in a negative light. It's not like I want to be preachy, but I'm making a game where Christianity is portrayed in an intelligent and debatable manner. The God that I am portraying isn't inherently the God that exists, because, if you assume He does exist, he has infinite depth and thus you can't accurately portray His "mysterious ways". But the God that I'm portraying is playing around with the concept of mankind's idea of God, the way they view God, and the way that God might actually be.


I assume that people won't really be too offended since it exists in a fictional world, and thus God is allowed to exist there, but I still feel like I should be treading slightly carefully.

 

[The Prince of Sarcasm]

I think it is ok to have god in games, ad long as he is the one true god, as i am a christian myself. My opinion is that as long as you don't try to depict god as an actual graphic it is ok. As far as God offending other religions, i think that it is ok to tell the truth. I believe that what the bible says is sin is sin, and am not afriad to say that. If that offends somebody that is ok, but going out of my way to offend people is a sin. God will not back down from what he says so he won't offend somebody, but he won't go out of his way to slash at them. As far as god being in video games, well lots of games ahevtheir own religion, ehy can't you have yours. If people get offende that's there problem.

 

[C-C-C-Cashmere (old)]

I think it is ok to have god in games, ad long as he is the one true god, as i am a christian myself. My opinion is that as long as you don't try to depict god as an actual graphic it is ok. As far as God offending other religions, i think that it is ok to tell the truth. I believe that what the bible says is sin is sin, and am not afriad to say that. If that offends somebody that is ok, but going out of my way to offend people is a sin. God will not back down from what he says so he won't offend somebody, but he won't go out of his way to slash at them. As far as god being in video games, well lots of games ahevtheir own religion, ehy can't you have yours. If people get offende that's there problem.

Ok. But assuming that the One True God exists in this piece of fiction, can you accurately depict Him in games? For example, does everything He say and do have to be what God would say and do in that exact given moment? Why is not OK to depict God as an actual graphic? Is it sinful? Because people used to do it in churches with paintings and stained-glass windows (not saying anything about whether that was right or not).


I mean, I want to tell the truth from my point of view as best as possible, but at the same time, like you say, I don't want to go out of my way to offend anyone. So I'm wondering to myself whether having God as an actual talking character is out of line. Writing as Him, I'm not even sure I can portray His immensity, but Him as a character is essential in my story. I'm not going to water it down for someone, because I believe that someone should receive the full message of what I believe, and then think about it themselves. I don't even mind if people are disgusted at what I make, I just wonder if it will achieve the desired effect in people's hearts, and that is, creating a positive sense of discussion about religion and about what it means to us.


It's a very hard topic to discuss without it getting very intense very fast. Makes me sweaty.

 

[Athryl]

I'm not offended by religion and/or God in games even though I am not religious.  Depending on how it is portrayed it might not appeal to me, but that's ok!  I wouldn't be offended, just might not be my style.  I would still say go for it.  It usually only bothers me when it's overly preachy (falls into telling instead of showing) and that really goes for any media not just games, and many subjects beyond religion.

I do think it will be a hard subject to tackle if you're going to fret too much about stepping on people's toes.  While it is wise to not be overly offensive, some people will likely be offended no matter how well you handle it.

 

[cane_danko]

God is mentioned in my game alot... never once did it cross my mind that "He" shouldn't be there. Then after people test play my game they are like "I don't know how people are going to react about religion in your game." So, naturally, I ask "How do you feel about it." Everyone gives me different answers but no one is against it. More or less it is like, "Well you are using explicit biblical material but I like how it is not the way they discuss it in sunday school." So... my conclusion is if you are going to step out of the norm and put God in your game and you want to try to shed some light on christianity (or whatever religion) then just try to do something different that will make people think. I mean look at the new movie "Noah". It is criticized hard for this and that because the story originates from the bible... but the person who made the movie made it as a movie not as a bible alternative. Hence, the movie has been successful. If you are wanting to do a game more like... Passion of the Christ... Well, I think many of us (Christians and non-Christians alike) would play it just to see how you do it. As far as bashing other religions... It's pretty much understood that this is bad. If you want to attack certain aspects of religion or denominations then you need to be clever about it. If it's a parody then you can get away with alot more but you should still try and make the audience feel you are showing restraint and not just being a biggot. Anyways... Dunno if I got off-topic but yes I am all about religion in games. For me it is obviously an opinion thing like everything else and if you are worried about offending someone then yeah maybe you should really contemplate whether taking this route for me. Or... you could just do what you believe is right and put what you want into your game.

 

[Cutie Mark Keldeo]

I have no issues with the use or portrayal of the Hebrew God, or any other religious figure in a game or any other work of fiction.  My stance on this is stylistic rather than philosophical.  The usage of God (as referred to as such) or Christianity in a work ties your game world to reality in a sense.  That doesn't mean it shouldn't be done, but it depends on what sort of a world you are trying to invoke.  Many games I've seen will have a religion with Christian-like churches and priests, but "God" will be referred to as a different name, or a specific god or goddess will be worshiped.  This distances the game world from reality (after all, Jesus lived on Earth and not Hyrule).  i think this is a good approach for creative reasons, unless your game is specifically set on Earth, but it is ultimately up to you, the creator to decide what is best.  

 

[The Prince of Sarcasm]

Ok. But assuming that the One True God exists in this piece of fiction, can you accurately depict Him in games? For example, does everything He say and do have to be what God would say and do in that exact given moment? Why is not OK to depict God as an actual graphic? Is it sinful? Because people used to do it in churches with paintings and stained-glass windows (not saying anything about whether that was right or not).

I mean, I want to tell the truth from my point of view as best as possible, but at the same time, like you say, I don't want to go out of my way to offend anyone. So I'm wondering to myself whether having God as an actual talking character is out of line. Writing as Him, I'm not even sure I can portray His immensity, but Him as a character is essential in my story. I'm not going to water it down for someone, because I believe that someone should receive the full message of what I believe, and then think about it themselves. I don't even mind if people are disgusted at what I make, I just wonder if it will achieve the desired effect in people's hearts, and that is, creating a positive sense of discussion about religion and about what it means to us.

It's a very hard topic to discuss without it getting very intense very fast. Makes me sweaty.

Sorry i should have worded that better. I mean that i think it is sacreligious to depict a picture of God. This bible says any human that sees his full glory would die(i think, i'm not sure where it is in the bible though) because we are sinful by nature. I think that if people want to depict jesus that is different because he was actually seen by man. If you do your best to depict god acuratley i wouldn't worry. I'd be more offended if a non-christian gave a mocking view of jesus. I don't think that you would do anything like that though. Lot sof people have written books where God talks to people, why would a game be different?

Cutie Mark Keldeo, on 11 Jun 2014 - 7:07 PM, said:

I have no issues with the use or portrayal of the Hebrew God, or any other religious figure in a game or any other work of fiction.  My stance on this is stylistic rather than philosophical.  The usage of God (as referred to as such) or Christianity in a work ties your game world to reality in a sense.  That doesn't mean it shouldn't be done, but it depends on what sort of a world you are trying to invoke.  Many games I've seen will have a religion with Christian-like churches and priests, but "God" will be referred to as a different name, or a specific god or goddess will be worshiped.  This distances the game world from reality (after all, Jesus lived on Earth and not Hyrule).  i think this is a good approach for creative reasons, unless your game is specifically set on Earth, but it is ultimately up to you, the creator to decide what is best.

Well my belief is that God created the whole universe, why shouldn't he be the same god in another dimension or planet?

 

[Uzuki]

I'm glad we all can keep this at a nice level. Surprisingly no one has gone crazy yet!

Anywho, I don't have a problem with God portrayed in a game. Everyone says that blah this and blah that are are insults to God, but the way I see it if he has a problem with the way he's portrayed then he needs to step up and say something. As long as your not downing anyone for their beliefs then I say go for it! I view religion like the OP, it's more of a lifestyle then a commitment. Plus your idea sounds very interesting and I can't wait to see the final product.

 

[cane_danko]

Depiction of God or other religious figures being portrayed in art and viewing this as a sin is called iconoclasm. Different denominations and religions are for and against this. To say whether it is wrong or right has been debated for thousands of years (unless you are a Muslim then yes depiction of Muhammad in art is forbidden as well as God). Though in all practical purposes to enforce iconoclasm in video games is a little extreme (in my opinion). If you live your life by other people's standards it is going to be hard to be an artist no matter what you are trying to depict. Look it up for yourself though and make your own judgements is my best advice. Roman Catholicism used to be for iconoclasm... then the pope's condemned it. Now it is acceptable practice and even encouraged to depict God in art. It is all left up to interpretation and to be frank most people don't have the maturity to research the philosophies behind these kinds of things and just believe because someone told them it was a rule in their bible. No offense intended. (sorry if it came out harsh).

 

[lemongreen]

Unfortunately, religion is one of those topics that treads an extremely thin line when talking about what could be offencive (even between people in same sect) I think that's why so many people either trash it (which I would hope we can all agree is just wrong) or try their best to skirt around it (which in some cases can turn out pretty good, but in others it fails completely)

Of course this topic isn't about either of those two, and really I'd say just make the game how you feel it should. I mean, really referencing any real life religion is bound to possibly offend somebody, but really it seems like doing pretty much anything anymore can possibly offend somebody (there's really no 100% fail-safe against that) Though if the people playing are mature about it, at least (I'm not really sure how likely that would be) it would probably more spark conversation over what and why they found it offencive with the possibility of expanding their world view rather than just stating they found it so (which isn't all that helpful)

Still, it's an interesting concept and I'd at least like to possibly play it if/when it's done. 

 

[hian]

Art is art, and religion is religion. There is no major difference between being respectful to one particular religion, than thrashing another, in terms of sentiments and their effect on other people.

A respectful portrayal of one religion inherently and logically entails that all other religions are wrong. Furthermore, almost any given religion will, due to the nature of what it claims to be true, which would be counter to the beliefs of other religions, in some way be disagreeable or offensive to people of other faiths.

There is no difference here in that sense when you compare it to a general thrashing of religion. The sentiment is the same I.E "My world-view, my morality, and my conception of the good life is true, and yours is wrong".

For that reason, no depiction of religions or religious deities will ever be safe from causing offense, which is why that shouldn't even be a concern to you when you're writing your world or your narrative.

People who feel offended by art should do the sensible thing which is to not engage with the art.

People don't have the right to not having certain expressions of art to be made because it's offensive - after all, they have the right to select for themselves what art to engage with to begin with, and that's all anyone will ever need.

Write your story, whether it's a really tasteful ode to-, or criticism of, religion, or whether it's just another Sword of Truth smack-down, or a Life of Brian rip-off.

It really doesn't matter. Some people will get offended no matter what you make, and the large majority of people who aren't completely over-sensitive and petty-minded, won't care either way.

Keyword here is "fiction". Everything is fair in fiction, and anyone who recognizes what fiction is, have no issues what so ever separating the fiction they're experiencing from their general experiences. People on the other side of that spectrum are lost souls in any case and should just be ignored.

 

[cane_danko]

@hian... I strongly disagree with the first part. Saying that my religion means that yours is wrong shows a lack of grasp on religion. While I do agree most people view their religions like this it is just a popular misconception. I could go more into this but it will get off topic. I do agree with you that she should put what she feels and not tip toe around offending people because if it has any meaning it will both move and offend someone.

 

[Deep Thought]

Hi guys,

I'm wondering what you guys feel about using God in games. I'm talking about the Big Boss of the universe in monotheistic religions. The concept of God that I'm using is that of an Almighty Creator who talks to someone who is dead, and explains to them through a series of puzzles why they died and why it is important that they understand. I understand that the concept of God or even his existence is debatable, but since this is a work of fiction I'm taking creative liberties in a field that's not often explored, except perhaps jovially like in Bruce Almighty where God is Morgan Freeman or something.

I'll give you a sense of where I stand. I'm a devout Christian, but not in the sense of believing God as a religion, but more of spirituality as a lifestyle centered around love for others. I know a lot of people have polarizing opinions when it comes to God, but I really want to make a game that's important and doesn't trivialize the subject. At the same time as making the character God compliant and fairly non-offending to Muslims or Hindus or Shintoists or Sikhs or even atheists, I also don't have that much experience with the character of other definitions of God, so I'd stick true to the Christian God.

I'm just wondering what are people's opinions about using God in games? To theists, if I had a speaking role for God, would you consider that blasphemous or lacking reverence? Because even though I have reverence to God and I know that in my heart, I still don't want to give people the wrong impression. I know that a lot of atheists mock the concept of God, and I can't control what they say or do, but I would rather like to invite discussion with my game rather than cause an uproar. It'd be nice if a game considered religion in a really unpretentious way and caused people to have rational discussions about their interpretations, that will lead us to come to the truth.

That is, if you believe truth exists. I do.

So let me know what you think. I'm expecting this topic to get a couple of impassioned replies, but please don't turn this into a flame war of any sort. Try not to hate each other, and love each other despite what you believe.

As a fellow brother in Christ, I can safely say that the premise you're going with in this game is a pretty safe one. That said, don't present what your game shows as outright scripture, and don't proselytize. Passages and such are OK, but don't ram theology down people's throats. Focus on plot, characterization, and gameplay first, then let the Spirit flow through it (so to speak). Many of the people I know are willing to overlook parts of a work they consider objectionable if the gameplay and plot are engaging in their own right.

 

[Arin]

My personal matter on the subject is if you're going to talk bad about religion, say for example you have an entire town which is centered around religion and the workings of God and DO ram it down people's throats, for the sake of your game you should make an equally opposite town that preaches for science. If one person isn't into religion and later gets to the town which preaches science, then it will all work out in the end, but if there is some radical that likes God and the well-being of faith, then let them stick around that town. (I mean for players, not NPCs.)

I don't personally use the "God" Battler the RTP provides or have any actions about "killing God" in any of the games I've seen or played. It just goes against the whole prospect of "being the most powerful entity in the universe" and if you can kill him in two hits you're suddenly the ultimate being. That just.....does not make sense.

But just in general, keep an open mind about it. It doesn't take a lot to spark a flame and get some radicalist Christian to throw down with you. The same can be said for any open debate topic, really, but religion and politics are the two most "controversial" topics of debate.

(I'm agnostic, by the way, just in case anyone wanted to know.)

 

[Eschaton]

Well, from the perspective of a professional developer, the God of Abraham has no place in a product that has to be sold to a wide audience.  Nobody developing a product wants to alienate potential customers by preaching.  Why do you think a product developed for a Christian clientele are only consumed by Christians?

As a militant atheist, I know that the God of Abraham, Zeus, Thor, none of them have any place anywhere, let alone a game.