Good vs Evil: Mapping Vote

[Niten Ichi Ryu]

@tuomo, remember me to never follow you in battle... Team evil map is actually full of choke points and killing fields.

Team good has few barricades right in front of the castle, not much choke points...

But Its true it looks more beautiful. All that glitters...

Edit: not flaming for the sake of flaming (not flaming at all actually) just disagreeing on your strategy analysis.

Despite being evil, I respect both parties.

 

[chalkdust]

My analysis:

I am removing all considerations of the quantity of events placed on screen, since that’s fairly arbitrary.

I am removing any HYPERMEGASUPERGOD WINS EVERYTHING considerations.

I am looking at unit capabilities and strategic placement, assuming equal numbers and equal power level between similar types of units.

Good Map

Pros

There’s no question that Team Good’s map is glorious. It is also well defended from both land and air assault. The castle is on high ground, has capable air defenses (dragons, griffons, archers, and mages) that are appropriately positioned, and effectively funnels all ground troops into a series of two narrow choke points. This map used resources from many contributors and was assembled by one mapper, contributing to its thematic cohesiveness.

Cons

I don’t see it as a battle map. The mounted soldiers suggest that they are preparing to leave and do battle elsewhere. You would not use mounted soldiers defending your castle from within your own stockade. The presence of a field hospital within the stockade confirms that this is not where the battle is actually intended to take place, at least not until after losing the main field. The actual battlefield only occupies the bottom few tiles of the map.

Evil Map

Pros

The evil map is built for long-term attrition, drawing the enemy through multiple narrow choke points with ranged fighters strategically positioned on high ground. Necromancers are strategically placed to turn the fallen troops on both sides into a fresh challenge for the invaders. The kidnapped resources trap requires the rescuers to navigate tough terrain, face the magical defenses, and survive the onslaught of the troop waiting to attack from the north. This is truly a battle map, with the headquarters occupying a small portion of the upper map. This map was assembled from sections designed by at least five different mappers and using resources from many more, contributing to the chaotic theme suitable for an evil landscape.

Cons

Forces are spread thin, and there are several areas where the enemy could seize and hold terrain, using its defensive features to their advantage. In particular, if the enemies recover their stolen assets, they would gain a strong position, food, weaponry (cannons), a shelter, potions, gold, and magical assets. This is a gamble that could completely turn the tides of the battle.

 

[Rukiri]

Team Good.

Team Evils is just... awful and random! 

 

[Vox Novus]

@Rukiri Thanks for such constructive criticism; mind showing us your map?

Anyway, I think the teams each took their view on the situation for us we wanted to make a massive battlefield were our army was divided into troops that the heroes would have to go through to get to our top forces; for us we made an actual battlefield that seemed like could repel the heroes forces. Honestly I look at the heroes map and maybe it does look better but I don't necessarily see it winning a massive onslaught compared to the types of creatures on our side.

I like the team good map though, it makes sense for a battle to happen near their castle; although I'm under the impression they would want to try and prevent a siege on their castle rather than seemingly embrace one. Anyway there is some great use of light and some lovely sprites and characters (Avery's dragon is amazing), I think ours was a little too large and maybe could have been focused more on the troops and we could have made use of light better. So yeah maybe they have a "prettier" map but if I look at it from which side would emerge victorious in a battle if the troops in each map attacked the other side, I would not pick team Goods.

I wonder how people outside the teams would vote if that was the criteria taken into consideration like we did.

 

[Silent Darkness]

@Vox I would imagine the reason why the castle itself is under attack, is because team evil's forces came en masse and started burning villages and ruining towns. Many of the civilians and some surviving soldiers fled to the castle for protection. The team evil forces followed the fleeing folks right to us.

 

[Vox Novus]

@SilentDarkness If that was the case then how would your troops be so ready for a siege?

 

[KockaAdmiralac]

@SilentDarkness

That reminds me of our History lesson when Sparta attacked villages near Athens in Peloponnesian War.

(Unfortunately, at the end, plague spread through Athens, and Pericles died)

Just, please don't start looping arguments again.

 

[Silent Darkness]

@SilentDarkness If that was the case then how would your troops be so ready for a siege?

What good army doesn't have scouts?.....of course, word would reach the castle.

 

[Cvrtis]

 

Just, please don't start looping arguments again.

 

 Main argument is:

...soldiers fled... for protection.

But where are the simple people who MUST flee to the castle?

Castle protect only itself?

All population will be dead, when the Evil forces will stand near the castle.

 

[Tuomo L]

@tuomo, remember me to never follow you in battle... Team evil map is actually full of choke points and killing fields.

Team good has few barricades right in front of the castle, not much choke points...

But Its true it looks more beautiful. All that glitters...

Edit: not flaming for the sake of flaming (not flaming at all actually) just disagreeing on your strategy analysis.

Despite being evil, I respect both parties.

Who's not to say you can't climb those walls and just get on top of there and kill everyone from there after dealing with the archers? I am sure most parties would have some rapelling equipment and you can avoid most of the killing fields with that and get advantage. Everything on Evil seems to rely on the fact that you have to walk through the small corridors and these very specific paths and making your way one by one in straight lines but what if you don't and ignore all these lines and make your own paths? Magic, teleporation, rapelling, explosives, flight all are stuff that are viable and mean that you're not really as restricted as you first think and that's before even counting in any siege equipment humanity would have. In fact you could skip almost all the stuff on the right side and fortify your position and wait for them to come at you instead. (Or not, and just hang around and wait for their base be destroyed) While majority of forces would attack from left and cause distractions and have the enemies on the move, the chosen elite would move the way the corridors and such that wouldn't be as well defended. Or they would be defended but then the majority of force would outdo the smaller defender parties and the elites would deal with the majority of the mobs. So either it's a costly victory or a heroic victory which would be ensured by the higher ground. It's not like the two catapult guys on the upper levels can operate all those catapults, they can operate one together at a time so they're not that big of a deal.

 

[Niten Ichi Ryu]

Well, in that case, the exact same arguments and methods to take down walls can be used against the castle of benevolence, making the postulate of hiding behind high walls moot!

You seem to be headstrong on dissing team evil's map anyways, so no point arguing further, you are biased.

 

[Tuomo L]

Well, in that case, the exact same arguments and methods to take down walls can be used against the castle of benevolence, making the postulate of hiding behind high walls moot!

You seem to be headstrong on dissing team evil's map anyways, so no point arguing further, you are biased.

No it's not, you cant' really do that. Team Good's castle is built on a mountain, do you know how long it'd take to make your way through a mountain ? Good has a far better elevated positions and more concentrated killing zone from the only pivotal point you can attack. The only viable attack path really is from the south while everything is concentrated in a great elevation and using the surroundings in the good castle. Having numerous archers and mages, siege equipment and such on the walls would also provide better support againsts flyers and the outer layer of defense with the wooden barricades provides a way to help against the oncoming attackers on foot. There's even spikes and such against cavalry charges and magical unicorns, it's like Team Good has thought of literally everything.

 

[Niten Ichi Ryu]

...

And what if team evil was using Magic, teleporation, rapelling, explosives, flight all are stuff that are viable and mean that we are not really as restricted as you first think..

 

[Tuomo L]

...

And what if team evil was using Magic, teleporation, rapelling, explosives, flight all are stuff that are viable and mean that we are not really as restricted as you first think..

Rapelling on that sort of mountain would be nightmare and there's tons of archers and mages on higher elevation who'd be able to pick them up. They'd be easy to spot and kill as they are slowly ascending that mountain, which would be extremely tasking and very exhausting and SLOW proces to do. It'd also be extremely dangerous from just looking at the mountain, I'd wager many people would fall to their deaths trying to climb them and that's even before all the skirmishers would fire on them. As someone who's actually done climbing, I can tell there's a huge difference in rapelling a steep mountain like that and a small barely bigger than human sized wall that was in the Evil Castle.

Teleportation and magic would be hard to account for (as always) but there's the unicorn, angels and many other mages I see there too which I think are perfect for that job. Explosives don't really work since there's multiple layers to the fortress so demolition  people wouldn't be able to get close enough to viably use them in the base castle and to deal damage to the gates. There's tons of fliers and catapults and other stuff to protect the skies as well. Seriously, Team Good has clearly thought about many of the things and it really does show.

Does it work 100% in practise? Who knows, it's hypothetical situation to begin with. However, I do see it as a better base with more areas covered and taking more things into consideration.

 

[Niten Ichi Ryu]

Running in circles aren't we? Lol. I think you end up being disrespectful of wathever team evil has done, being so obtuse on your position. I hope you enjoyed wasting time writing all this. You are convincing no one but yourself.

 

[lazhiral]

This Team Good map is just too awesome for me to resist. Take my vote! Haha

 

[mjshi]

Wait so is Team Evil's map in a cave or not? Because if it's not, that means that the walls have to end somewhere, making choke points moot. But if it is a cave, then my previous argument on insufficient airspace still holds.

 

[Silent Darkness]

But where are the simple people who MUST flee to the castle?
Castle protect only itself?

All population will be dead, when the Evil forces will stand near the castle.

They are not in sight, here. Safely hidden within the lower levels of the castle.

 

[Tuomo L]

Running in circles aren't we? Lol. I think you end up being disrespectful of wathever team evil has done, being so obtuse on your position. I hope you enjoyed wasting time writing all this. You are convincing no one but yourself.

It's okay, I don't really care either way as it's just a mapping contest about fantasy fiction. You  gave your reply to me originally and I simply responded and expanded on my stance.  I voted for Team Good and I still think it's a better chosen battlefield, I don't know how much more I need to verify on my pick.

 

[Rikifive]

Team Law made the best map.

Their ban forces are unlimited.

THE END ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)