Heartbeat is being brigaded

Ailius

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MOD NOTE: This issue naturally lends itself to political discussion and hate speech - both of which are not allowed here. Anyone who wishes to join this discussion must remember to:
  • DO NOT USE OFFENSIVE TERMS FOR ANY GROUPS OF PEOPLE.
  • DO NOT DISCUSS POLITICS.
  • Keep the discussion focused on this game, or the gaming industry.
  • Present facts and logic to support your opinions.
  • Argue respectfully. Be open to other peoples' points of view.
  • BE KIND. Issues like this are designed to divide. Don't let anger drive you.
Posts that break our rules will be deleted immediately, and especially bad cases will incur punishment.
~Wavelength


Situation:

Heartbeat is currently on sale and the DLC is 41% off. A forum called ResetEra thinks this is a transphobic "dog whistle" because 41% happens to be a suicide rate for transvestites, so they're trying to brigade Heartbeat for 'transphobia'.

TheQuartering has covered the topic here:
NOTE: From 3:20 to 8:30, this video discusses very NSFW reactions to this topic that include coarse language and prejudiced remarks from forums. However, it is clean from the starting timestamp onward.

Question:
Is there anything we can do as a community to show solidarity with the developers? I don't agree with the developer's politics, but I more strongly oppose ResetEra and the outrage tactics they are using. Indie games have to operate in places where the AAA games don't go. Besides, their game doesn't actually touch this stuff.

And a Tinfoil Hat Theory:
The latest mention of Heartbeat is in the other thread:
https://forums.rpgmakerweb.com/inde...ame-is-one-of-them.113515/page-3#post-1004297

It happens to be one of the games that enmxdev is stealing. I don't believe in coincidences. I believe this thief riled up the mob so he can get the game taken off Steam and re-release it on Android later.
 
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Milennin

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They could reach for the stars with that amount of reach. 41%, lolwat?
 

The Stranger

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ResetEra is trash, a cesspool. Not sure how to combat this sort of nonsense beyond fighting against it by buying the game and leaving positive reviews.
 
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gstv87

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Heartbeat is currently on sale and the DLC is 41% off. A forum called ResetEra thinks this is a transphobic "dog whistle" because 41% happens to be a suicide rate for transvestites, so they're trying to brigade Heartbeat for 'transphobia'.
imagine what they would do if they found out that 42 is the answer to everything....
 

bgillisp

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Fun with stats and common sales %'s:

20% of all small business fail in the 1st year. No more 20% off sales as you are making fun of small businesses based on that logic.
30% is how much the suicide rate went up age adjusted from 2000 - 2016. Guess there should be no more 30% off sales.
40% of police officer families experience domestic abuse. Guess we can't use 40% then.
50% of small businesses fail after 5 years. Guess 50% is out too.
60% of all 2nd marriages end in divorce. Well, there goes 60% too.

That's what I got just on the front page after googling statistics that have those %'s. You can find something for any % between 1 and 100 if you try hard enough. And honestly I think someone should just do it and post that data to them just to show that based on this and your claims, we should never have another sale ever. Enjoy paying full price the rest of your life.
 
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Seacliff

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It's not even the only thing 41% off...
 

Hollow

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I'm not familiar with ResetEra, but the controversy surrounding this game regarding transphobia was absolutely not started by this sale and the statistic about trans peoples' suicides. The lead developer's girlfriend made some severely transphobic comments on Twitter, and then there were claims from people in the Heartbeat discord that the developer shared those opinions. There were also claims that the dev and their girlfriend had a private chat in which they mocked several trans women who were in the discord. Here's a short article with links to the girlfriend's original tweets and some screenshots/discussions about the discord stuff (obvious tw for big time trans and lesbophobia).

So, sure, the connection between the discount and the suicide statistic could be purely coincidental, but that alone is far from what actually started the issue.

Also, small side note for OP: "transvestite(s)" is currently considered an outdated term and derogatory. It's just one of those words that unless someone refers to themselves with it first, you shouldn't call them that, let alone refer to the whole community as such. Just say "transgender people."
 

The Stranger

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@Hollow What's lesbophobic about what they've said? As far as I can see, they are lesbians. What her girlfriend chooses to believe is up to her, and should not have an impact on the game.
 

Hollow

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@The Stranger You can be a part of a group and still prejudiced against it, much like how women can still be misogynistic (thinking women, including them, shouldn't be allowed to vote, etc.) and so on. The lesbophobia I'm referring to in her comments is the idea that trans women lesbian cannot be lesbians because they are "men." The dev and their girlfriend may be lesbians, but so are a lot of the people they're mocking.

And yes, the girlfriend's comments alone aren't much more than just gross. However, she's still a major member of the community, and there are credible allegations and some evidence that the lead dev does share her opinions, they're just smarter about keeping them semi-private. The article I linked to before has some screenshots of the discord chat in which the dev made her comments and some discussion about it by people from the Heartbeat discord.
 

The Stranger

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@Hollow Yeah, I've just read through it. I still think it wrong to brigade the game over their personal beliefs though. Does the game contain these messages in some form? I have no idea if it does since I've never played it. Personally, I think it's important to separate the artist from their art. I guess others have a different opinion on that though.
 

Hollow

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@The Stranger As far as I'm understanding the game does not contain these beliefs and actually has a strong, if ironic now, message of acceptance and unity. In fact, a lot of the people at the forefront of this whole discussion were huge fans of the game before this all came out. I think people's ire isn't toward the game itself but more toward the developer, so they don't want to support them by purchasing the game.

I do disagree about separating the art from the artist, because imo a person's viewpoint is always going to affect how they portray things no matter what. But, if all my years studying art and literature have taught me anything, it's that that discourse is never-ending, haha! So, we'll have to agree to disagree on that. :)
 

gstv87

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It's not even the only thing 41% off...
well, it's also not the only thing that's transphobic either.
if we're going to point out the things that it is *not*, we can point out the whole universe.
if they're triggered by things being transphobic, they have a whole world out there being much more blatant about it.

"transvestite(s)" is currently considered an outdated term and derogatory
"travestite" is still correct tho.
one thing is people who like to cross-dress (might as well just use "cross-dresser" instead, but, whatever.) without willing to undergo a full trans-sex lifestyle, and another thing is people who do want to become trans.

I believe the point the twitter argument is trying to make, is that *those people >who don't want to become trans gender<* can't be called "lesbians" because by the very definition of lesbian, a lesbian is a woman, and has always been a woman, who likes other women.
so, a "trans" person can't be called a lesbian, because they're not strictly female.
that's what the dictionaries of pretty much every language in the world will state.

and if you go and find the very definition of female, it will say that the term is used to identify *the genetic arrangement of a person*.
Mod action: Snipped your final 4 paragraphs. Respectfully - genetics, physics, and "the universe" are way beyond the scope of the Heartbeat controversy.
 
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Hollow

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@gstv87 Transvestite is not the correct term. A transvestite/cross-dresser is not the same as someone who is transgender. And no, the developer's girlfriend isn't talking about cross-dressers. She specifically refers to "transwomen." Her stance is that trans women, women, are not lesbians because they, according to her, are men (they're not).

Also, I'm not going to debate trans people's very existence with you. There are literal centuries worth of scholarly literature on queer theory, gender identity, and trans experiences for you to read if you care to. Please Google them if you're actually interested in learning about the subject.

Snip. Genetics are way beyond the scope of the Heartbeat controversy.
 
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Hollow

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@gstv87 Again, not going to debate this with you. Trans women are women and can be lesbians. I've already given you a link to show why you're genetics argument is flaky at best. Please use Google if you need more information.

~~~

Anyway, my whole reason for originally posting in this thread was to give more context to the OP. I thought it would be disingenuous to try and have this discussion based solely on the most easily read as "stupid" aspect of it. The lead dev's girlfriend made some gross comments about trans women lesbians, the lead dev seems to agree, and people are rightfully upset about it. Whether or not y'all choose to purchase the game and/or support the devs is up to you. Contrary to what some may claim, no one's gonna bust into your house and beat you up if you do buy it. It's a cute game, and most people's issue is with the devs themselves.

Like I said, I just wanted to add context. Goodnight, all.
 

Wavelength

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@gstv87 There is a difference between the genetic concept of "sex" and the sociological concept of "gender". Which ones apply to the LGBTQ spectrum (or transexuals or transvestites) is way beyond the scope of this topic, and it is controversial political discussion. I have an opinion about this and I'd be happy to debate it with you by PM, but public political discussion (not to mention off-topic discussion) is not allowed on this forum. If you want to post in this thread, stick to discussion about the controversy as it applies to gaming.
 

gstv87

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If you want to post in this thread, stick to discussion about the controversy as it applies to gaming.
you mean, like pretty much *every other* controversy involving gaming?
I don't need even half a sentence to sum those up: unfounded, irrelevant, and pretentious.

I can see them coming a mile away. It's always the same: they can't find a way to make a fuzz about something, so they take it up with gaming.

Why are we even talking about this?
It should have been dismissed the moment it started: "Oh, so you think this game is homophobic..... here, let me put your claim on this pile of claims that state the same from pretty much every other game, work of art, audio-visual production, or general media out there" (cue a skyscraper of complaint forms)
Haven't we seen enough in the 30-some years that the habit and industry of gaming has been around?

if ResetEra has a complaint, they can take it to the authorities of Steam, and the authorities of Steam will tell them "this is legit, deal with it."
end of story.

the problem is not that Steam isn't delivering that response, but that there is people who look at this and go "omg! what an abuse! ResetEra should be supported! what an atrocity against them!"
see what I'm going for? the general lack of common sense.
 

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