Help! Creating skills for certain classes

Skunk

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Hey folks.


I am currently working with a few friends on my game, and we have got to the point where we need to start creating abilities for certain classes.


I am wondering if anyone can suggest certain skill types for certain classes, what would compliment the other classes and not leave too much out.


I am running a Monk, a Summoner, a Templar and a Djinn.


I have a pretty good idea about what kinds of skill I will give my djinn, but we are all having a tough time figuring out skills and attacks for everyone else.


I don't fully understand what a buff/de buff is or if that will need to be taken into consideration when creating these.


If anyone can offer some advice, it would be much appreciated :)
 

Rayhaku808

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It might help if there were descriptions of your classes and the world setting. Some of these seem more like support classes and I'm not so sure what there is to support. Like, are you just looking for ideas and you're going to go off of that?


Is the Templar your tank?


The last time I've played a Monk in a game, he used auras with AoE debuffs that you could place on the ground. Depending on how it was spec'd into, the aura would be massive or it could be smaller and the effect would be pretty severe.  Though this was an action/tower defense game so not sure how to utilize it outside of that.


Do summoners attack entirely with their summons? Kinda like Yuna from Dissidia Duodecim? Or maybe more classic from X?
 

Skunk

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So my monk is my tank, the tamplar is second in strength, the summoner does to normal attacks but is the only one who casts spells to summon other djinn and different things.


Im guessing I should make each djinn enemy call a different common event which calls some scripts i have.


So I guess I just need to know what KINDS of skills each class should have, or is it pointless having a monk and a templar both being quite strong with low magic attack. and then high magic and low attack for the summoner.


I havent playe very many old school rpgs so a lot of these terms are lost on me :(


But im passionate and want to understand it lol


I didn't even know what TP was until I found out by accident while testing events lol


WORLD SETTING:


Takes place on earth in a not so distant past.


focused on the Djinn, humans and light beings. (old testimate stuff but nothing to do with religion in the game)


MONK:


Power house, uses strength and weapons more than magic.


TEMPLAR:


He is the support of the Monk.


He uses a mix of magic and weapons.


SUMMONER:


She mostly uses magic with some light attacks, support class.


She learns at one point to summon certain djinn to help her/the others


----------------------------


So thats pretty much all I have so far for ideas about exp curve and everything else.
 
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cekobico

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When I heard those word: 


Monk: off-tanker, high counterattack rate, limited skill pool, small access to magic like lower level healing spells. Usually have combo skills/follow-up skills mechanic with low chance


Templar: main tanker of the party with combination of defensive skills and healing/protective spells. Can taunt to intercept enemies' attack and additionally have skills that deal more damage the more Defense stat he has. 


Summoner: usually a versatile class; mainly because his summon have different effects when used. One might deal elemental damage/status effects/or even healing/protective spells; but the selling point of this class is usually because his summons have AOE effect against the party/enemy. 


Djinn: idk. I rarely hear this being a class; but what I expect to play someone with "Djinn" title/class/name, I would expect Fire-centric abilities or debilitating status effects. 
 

Oddball

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the templar could have a skill that provokes and gives him counter attack for a turn.


For the Djin, you could have a skill called "three wishes" which gives the party an extra command type that lets them do an extra action at the cost of the djin being unable to move at that time (but only three total, and only once per battle). 


The monk could have skills tied to Chi and other spiritual energies but would require some research. but could have damaging attacks that use MP or TP as a resource allowing him to stay in battle for long periods of time without using recource restoring items


ill think of more
 
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Wavelength

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When designing skills - and classes in general - think about what you want each class to feel like for the player, and how they interact with each other.  How can we translate what it would feel like to be an assassin or acrobat or field medic to the battle system?  Sell the dream!  That's the key to making a satisfying battle experience.


As a very simple example, a game I played gave the Rogue's basic attack two hits, and made each hit half as strong.  Well... um... it kind of came out to the exact same thing as one hit at normal strength.  That doesn't sell the dream of being a Rogue.  But imagine if the Rogue had "preparations" they could apply to their weapon that have an extra effect every time you hit, and the Rogue's attack skills hit not once, not twice, but four or five times?  The character now feels devious, speedy, explosive.  That's selling the dream.


That same game's elemental mage class has a Fire spell and a Water spell and an Earth spell and so on, but they were just pure damage with nothing to differentiate them besides their element and animation, so unless you just happened to figure out that Gelatinous Slime was weak to Earth, the mage might as well just be a warrior that uses MP instead of TP.  Another class had a Light spell and a Dark spell, but they felt no different from the elemental mage's spells.  Again, not selling the dream.  But what if a fire spell felt much different from a dark spell?  What if the fire spell was Area of Effect and could Burn foes, whereas the dark spell was single-target and dealt much more damage to foes with status ailments (including Burning)?  Now these classes feel different, and have a very clear way they can work together to be more effective as a team than alone.  That's selling the dream.


What might be some possible dreams that a player might have of being a Templar or a Summoner?  Here are a few possible ideas (that are all possible without scripts) to get your creative juices flowing:


Monk: High attack, medium defense, low magic.  Lots of self-buffs.  Combo Heavy.  Capable of dishing out tons of damage, but has no way to directly aid teammates.

  • Crippling Strike: Deals damage to an enemy and Cripples them (a state that lowers their AGI for a few turns).
  • Ground Pound: Deals minor damage to all enemies; deals much more damage to enemies that are Crippled.
  • Enhance Weapon: Self-target state.  For a short time, the Monk's ATK is increased and gains a 100% chance to inflict Concussion with attacks ("Atk State").
  • Resonating Strike: Deals damage to an enemy; deals much more damage if the enemy is Concussed.
  • Rage: Self-target state.  For several turns, the Monk's ATK, MAG, and AGI are greatly enhanced but his DEF and MDF are greatly reduced.

Templar: High defense, medium magic, low attack.  Aims to take hits for allies.  Capable of drawing enemy fire and saving his teammates.

  • Challenge: Self-target state.  Greatly increases the Templar's Target Rate (TGR) for a few turns, so that enemies attack him more often.
  • Threatening Strike: Deals damage to an enemy and increases the Templar's TGR somewhat for a few turns.
  • Steady Stance: Greatly increases the Templar's DEF and MDF for a few turns.
  • Suppress: Deals minor damage to an enemy and reduces that enemy's ATK for a few turns.
  • Benediction: Heals an ally, with the heal scaling based on that ally's missing health.  If used on the Templar himself, effect is cut in half.

Summoner: High magic, medium attack, low defense.  Capable of providing tons of damage and utility to teammates, but easily knocked out if not protected by teammates.  Has several "summon" skills, plus several "ordinary" skills that each have a bonus effect depending on the last "summon" skill that the Summoner used.

  • Summon: Sylph: A wind spirit grants all allies extra MAG and AGI for several turns, as well as a massive boost to their ATK Speed.
  • Summon: Undine: A water spirit grants all allies a small amount of health regen each turn for several turns.
  • Summon: Dryad: A nature spirit grants all allies a small chance to evade hostile magic for several turns, as well as +50% benefit from items ("PHA rate").
  • Soul Mending: Heals an ally for a small amount, plus has an additional effect that does one of the following based on the last Summon skill used:

    Wind: The target gains a state that increases their ATK for a short time.
  • Water: The Summoner is also healed for 10% of her missing health.
  • Earth: Also removes most negative status effects from the targeted ally.

[*]Spirit Beam: Deals damage to an enemy, plus has an additional effect that does one of the following based on the last Summon skill used:

  • Wind: Deals double damage against enemies that are below 50% health.
  • Water: Also inflicts a state that greatly reduces the enemy's ATK and MAG for a short time.
  • Earth: Grants the party a minor healing potion.
 
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Tai_MT

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I'm going to have to agree with Wavelength here.


I'm also going to be a little bit of a jerk here, so... don't come to beat me up just yet.  I'm not trying to be a jerk here, but it's going to come off that way.


I could give you ideas all day long about what each class, what it should do, what role it should fill, what skills it should possess...  But, ultimately...  Anything I would say would be completely without any kind of context.  A class system and skill system are meaningless without any kind of insight into how your combat works.  What kind of combat are you going for?  What do you want the player to be doing in it?  What will the enemies be doing and what will they utilize as abilities?  Moreover, what kinds of "elements" do you have in your game?  By that, I mean things like, do you have just the standard RPG elements of earth, water, fire, wind, etcetera...  Or do you have things like Blunt, Piercing, Slashing, Stabbing, etcetera.  How does that stuff all interact with each other?  Is it just another element to be exploited by the party, or is it something deeper?


Without knowing just what it is you're doing with the rest of your game, it's going to be difficult to suggest any kind of skill as "worthwhile" to your particular system.  I mean, you can gain ideas yourself by just playing around in the RPG Maker.  Honestly, that's how I've come up with most of mine.  I noticed things like, "Hey, I can inflict unique states on my party members or the enemy to do really interesting things other than damage" and made a few like that.  I also noticed things like, "Hey, I can select all kinds of different targets, including random targets..." and made some skills like that.  I noticed I could have things like "attacks multiple times", and I did a skill or two like that.  I noticed I could raise critical hit rates across all party members and played with that.  I found a neat little thing in there where I could play with skill formulas so that the more of your HP was missing, the more damage that particular skill would inflict (max HP minus current HP = damage).  I found out that I could make my skills run on any stat I liked and have any stat I wanted be the defense stat for the skill.  I made skills that increased weaknesses to particular elements.  I made skills that made my characters go berserk for several turns and also raise their TP while they were berserk.


But, again, without really knowing all that much about your game... namely all the bits that you slot a "skill" into... I'm not sure I can really help you much at all.  If all you want is examples others have used in their games, then that is probably easier.  But, some of that might even require explanations on how their battle systems work.


If you want a couple examples of "interplay" from my game, I can give you a few.  I have 9 characters, 3 of each "type".  I have 3 Speed characters (Agility is their primary stat... it's usually what they use to attack as well as what most of their skills run off of), 3 Magic characters (just like the agility characters, except their builds revolve around the magic attack stat), and 3 physical hitters (one is basically your default tank, one is your basic "jack of all trades" type, and the third is a magical knight that uses skills with elemental effects... except uses the physical attack stat to cast them... unless you level up the skills to use the magic stat instead... but that's neither here nor there).  My first character (the one you cannot ever swap out) has a skillset called "Adrenaline".  It runs entirely on TP.  He has exactly one skill that consumes MP and it's the only healing skill the party ever gets... and it's limited to just healing himself.  But, he has the most diverse set of skills, and some of them interplay off of each other, or can be used to set up other characters.  He has a full party buff called "Battle Cry" which can be used to buff either Magic stats by 75% or Attack and Speed stats by 50% each.  The buff lasts 3 turns, so it's main use is to set up other characters to either use their skills in quick succession, or to inflict more damage with some of their basic skills.  I have a zero MP Speed and zero MP Magic skill that are used if you want to just be "quick and dirty" about combat and just want to overwhelm the enemy without having to cast really high level stuff.  I mean, they are just straight "User's Agility minus Target's Luck" and "User's Magic minus Target's Magic Defense" affairs, but they get the job done without using MP and they're a good fallback position to have.  If you want more interplay between some of my classes, I'll give you my Magic Knight and my Witch.  My Witch is the basic "I'm a wizard, I hurl elemental crap around and do damage that way" skillset.  The Magic Knight can be a different version of that Witch, or a unique version of a Bruiser type class.  Anyway, the interplay.  If you level up the Magic Knight's skills along the "Physical" paths, one of the first things you get is the ability to inflict "Weakness to X" at 80%.  In and of itself, you can simply land the blow, and then cast the same skill again, and do more damage the second cast.  But, wait, there's more.  The Witch can cast her spells the turn after him and do more damage that way.  So, even if the enemy is strong against physical hits, the Magic Knight can still set up more powerful abilities for the Witch on her next turn.  Even more interplay results if a player goes all the way down the "Physical" line of the Magic Knight's skills.  At the very last upgrade, he gets a SECOND "weakness to X", except instead of an element, its' an entire damage type (like magic, speed, physical, blunt, piercing, slashing elements).  So, instead of only helping out the Witch...  He's potentially helping out the entire party, depending on what they've got equipped.


An example of some interplay I have with just a single character is that first one I mentioned who uses Adrenaline.  He can eventually learn a skill where, at a cost of HP, he becomes immune to death for a set number of turns.  His HP can go to zero, but he will not die, until the state wears off.  It costs a massive amount of TP to use it, but it can save your butt in a pinch.  Even more, if you've got all the right equipment on you...  You can use it in conjunction with one of the examples of skills I used earlier.  Yep, you can use it with that skill where it does damage based on how much HP you're missing.  Even better, you can level up the Immunity to Death skill to the point where it lasts SIX TURNS instead of the default 3.  Even better?  It removes 95% of your total HP as part of the cost of those 6 turns.  Oh, and higher levels of the other skill that does damage based upon missing health... gets multipliers for damage if you go the right way for a level up.  If you do it right, it works like this:  "(Max HP minus Current HP) * 3.  So, if you cast the "immune to death" skill and it knocks out say... 95 out of the 100 HP you've got... then you use the "does more damage with more HP missing" skill after it, you can do 285 damage with the skill.


I know that's pretty long... I tend to get verbose when I get passionate.  So, I'll summarize with this tl;dr version here.  The key to simply coming up with skills is just to look at all the options you can have in the skills tab of the database.  Likewise, the key to having any kind of "interplay" is to simply come up with skills that are useful on their own...  But some other skill can play off of them just as well, or somehow enhance them, and reward the player for smart thinking.


If you need an example of "how to do good interplay", just look no further than Final Fantasy 6.  That game is full of that stuff.  Especially just in the Magic abilities.  I mean, how many players figured out that you could use "Vanish" on an enemy to ensure a 100% hit rate for any magic spell... and then cast either "Doom" or "X-Zone" on the same enemy for an instant win without the internet?  How many people figured out that you could mix the Genji Glove (equip two weapons) and the ability of "Sword Tech" to get 8 hits each cast?  How many people figured out you could equip the item that let you cast two spells back to back... and then have a special character mimic those double casts for FOUR CASTS of the same spell... two of them free?


Just gotta look for ways to have interesting skills that fit your game and your battle system... such that they work on their own.  Then, come up with other skills that also work on their own, that can play off of those other skills if a player figures it out.  You know, like dousing an enemy in oil (which might normally reduce the enemy's speed... like say cast Slow on them... or inflict some other state on them that makes it difficult for them to fight)... and then casting a fire spell on them, which might do more damage if they have that state on them (simple to do, even without a script.  You can set it so that Oil imparts a 100% weakness to Fire... then you just make sure that all fire spells come with a "remove Oil state" attached to them).


Okay, I'm done.  Again, sorry that's so long.
 

Skunk

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Wow... That isn't jerky at all!


That's exactly what I was after, different kinds of examples of different skills that can work together and not seem... useless.


I really appreciate that, I am basically using this as my outline as of now :D


I am at work so it is tricky to reply with a lot of specifics.


Here is the basic premis for the game.


Willow Mist


Story takes place a long time ago, when mankind first inhabbited the world, and were for a time sharing the land with the Djinn.


The story focus's on a young man named Ovni and his 3 friends.


The djinn have now turned evil (or have they) and are causing havoc in Agartha. (the land inside the earth where they were bannished to)


Ovni (Monk): The strong, sensitive type who has the most experience in fighting and combat.


Therise (Summoner): Ovnis good friend who takes on the nurturing mother roll. Lost her father before the beginning of the game and is having a hard time adjusting.


Marc (Templar): Ovnis best friend and confidant. He is the comic relief and gets on therise's nerves all the time.


Nav: (Djinn) Nav is a hybrid between an ancient Djinn and a Human woman. He has the powers of dark and light. He is able to see and communicate with both Humans and Djinn.
He becomes very good friends with Ovni and helps Ovni and Therise to fall in love.



The world is earth, but a distant version of earth.
There are only 3 continents.
The main continent is called Mara, the second in line is called Hespal, and the final is called Nordica.


The world has 3 dominant races, White, Brown and tan.
All three races trade and there are no wars.
People of different races are even encouraged to meet and fall in love.
They are aware we are all the same.


The capitol city of Mara is Blackmill, this is where Ovni and his friends live.
The second largest city is West Castle. This is where the more wealthy people live.
The third and final city on Mara is called Thourn. 
Thourn is an important city to the people of Mara, It is the place where the Djinn and Humans last had contact. That is also where you will find the entrance to Bala.
 


There are a few things you had mentioned that I dont quite understand as of yet, when it comes to how to apply certain states, likehow would Iset up a skill that allows him to have zero HP but not die until the state wears off? 


(sorry for my typing I am on a phone)


I am getting so stoked tho now that I can see all this coming to shape!
 

Wavelength

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Couldn't help but give Tai a Like, partially because there's a lot of good advice there, but mostly because I'm so fascinated to see someone actually spell out the word "etcetera"!
 

Skunk

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Lol I noticed that too. That goes beyond efficiency and crouches on perfection :D


I am still using that advice in my database as we speak lol


Thank god for working at a gas station, selling gas and snacks etcetera 
 

Oddball

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Death is a state. so just set up a state that makes the afflicted resist the death state
 

Skunk

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OH! Well that makes total sense lol


thanks there oddball!
 

Tai_MT

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Yeah, as mentioned earlier, if you set up a piece of equipment or a state to "Resist Death", then you're effectively immune to Death so long as it's equipped or it's inflicted on you.  The "Resist" box in there is always complete immunity to whatever you're resisting.


I liked the idea of an ability where you were immune to death, but couldn't think of a good way to balance it.  So, I balanced it with very high TP costs and with a reduction to HP.  That way, players will use the skill when they're close to death anyway, or to set up the interplay I mentioned earlier.  The ways it levels up are just "it lasts longer, but costs more HP" or "it costs less HP, but doesn't last very long".  Since the only ways to heal in my game are by using items or by the Adrenaline character using his self targeted MP skill to heal (it never heals more than 40% of his HP at a cast, and starts off at 10% of his HP), it's balanced pretty well by simply eating up a lot of HP.  After all, you need to have at least 1 HP before the state wears off... or you do die.  If all a player cares about is surviving instant-death, or just death in general, they obtain the ability at the lowest possible cost, since 3 turns is still a big buffer zone.  But, if they want to live dangerously and set up for massive amounts of damage, then they get the most expensive and long lasting version of the skill as possible and use it as a means of attacking.


There really are a lot of interesting things you can do in the skills tab.  You can even do a "Transfer TP" skill if you want by simply having the skill cost a set amount of TP (we'll say 10 for the example) and then let you target an ally to give that TP to (making sure to set the skill so that it gives the amount of TP you spent to cast it, to the person you're casting it on).  You can do the same with MP.


Skills is probably the place I've had the most fun in making my game so far.  There are lots of possibilities!
 

Skunk

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@Tai_MT I like what you have going on there.. thats something else I might like to try :D


This is exciting!
 

cekobico

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If you ever need more ideas for skills and how to set 'em up, go here.




I'm sure out of 26 pages you can find tons of skill idea to implement in your game. 
 

Skunk

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So... I am not seeing a resist box in my skills window.. was this added in the newer MV?


EDIT: I see I can remove the state (knockout)... is that what I am after?


In my mind though, that wouldnt take effect unless the character is already "knocked out"...


Am I right in assuming this?
 
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Tai_MT

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So... I am not seeing a resist box in my skills window.. was this added in the newer MV?


EDIT: I see I can remove the state (knockout)... is that what I am after?


In my mind though, that wouldnt take effect unless the character is already "knocked out"...


Am I right in assuming this?


The first state in MV or VXAce (I have no idea what version you're using) is "Death".  It's the state inflicted upon a party member when their HP reaches zero.  You're not supposed to change it, otherwise the game does wonky things when you have 0 HP.


If you click the "features" in the states thing, the first tab should say "Rate" on it.  The last option is "State Resist".  Just select the state you want the character to resist, and they're now immune to it so long as the state is on them.  You can do the same thing with equipment.  This isn't found under the "skills" section at all, because it makes no sense to put it there.


You have to have a skill inflict the "resist death" state in order for it to actually resist death...  So, you just make a skill that hits 100% of the time, inflicts the state for resisting death... then you're set.


Skills can inflict states.  States can be practically anything you want.  There's a lot of versatility just in that.  A state isn't necessarily just things like "poisoned" or "paralyzed".  They can be things like, "regen HP" or "increase defense by 50%".  Some of the most powerful and interesting things you can do with a skill is inflict states.
 

Skunk

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Ya I figured that out lastnight while I was enjoying the new dragonball super lol


So I have this all set up now as a skill that calls a common event which adds the state resist death.


This way I can use that common even for more things in the future!
 

Oddball

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after much testing ive come to the conclusion...


gaurd + provoke in one skill is POWERFULL!
 
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